Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

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Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
2,934
I mean, going by that Wired Reporter he said that the „low speed“ version PS5 he used was in a silver tower enclosure.

And with some people in here being so selective in what they want to believe and what not, Ps5 having a tower design is not impossible, even with the patents and pics of the devkit probably pointing the other direction.
One thing that’s clear is that vents and cooling is a MAJOR part of the design language for the next gen systems.

I think we should definitely prepare for bigger consoles than last gen.



So what is our stance at GPU clockspeeds (for both consoles)?
I'm asking because I've just read an article about a 5500xt comfortable reaching 2.0 GHz with air cooling. (comfortable as in the author says even 2.2 is possible, but not recommended)
That 5500xt was most likely in a bigger case with much more airflow. Consoles are usually more compact.
 

Manfred

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,859
Geneva, Switzerland
So much arguing over which console will render a game at 2160p and which will in 2000p.
At the level of spec differences we are talking about, the resolution difference is just so minuscule that it won’t be noticeable at all.
So whether Series X or PS5 having a more powerful GPU won’t change much for either side.
If having the edge seems so important, the problem would me more the Serie X 300% above Lockhart. It's not more a One X/PS4 Pro situation because the PS5 won't have a PS4 Fat/Slim to tow. I guess we'll have to wait on the first or second volley of 1P and 3P exclusives to make it clear that you can scale down only what has been first designed to be scaled down.
 
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JayC3

bork bork
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
2,271
Official Staff Communication
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential capabilities and features of next generation consoles. While rumors can be part of this discussion, it has been increasingly difficult to separate rumors from confirmed fact.

To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

2. As always check your sources before posting any rumors. Do not cite banned sources or information from banned sites. You are responsible for what you post.

3. If you have sources or leaks of your own that you would like to share, please reach out to staff first to verify your information. If you do not verify your information with staff before posting you will be banned.
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,944
You know, i have a feeling that Microsoft will fight for every tflop. XSX form factor allows it and it's far most important for Xbox because of all the talk so far. And it's not a big deal if they really have the most powerful console. It matters only for fanboys and so called insiders (very annoying persons with no real contribution to the thread).

My predictions (pure guess) are:

1. Sony will aim for lower price and most important, smaller box. I don't see PS5 in a tower like XSX. This won't sell in Japan at all. Even in the west, may be only hardcore gamers will buy XSX. Price predictions are 449 for PS5 and 499 for XSX.
2. I predict 10% raw power difference. XSX CPU will has 10% higher clocks and 10% higher tflops (12.3 vs 11).
3. Performance difference will be less than 10% in standard mode, because of higher clocks of PS5.
4. RT will be better on XSX because of higher number of CUs. But all depends on Sony RT implementation.
5. Both will have same amount of memory
6. PS5 will have different memory setup
7. PS5 SSD in the end might be the faster one.
If you believe that Sony is not also fighting for every flop, then I guess you are wrong. And if we believe Klee, PS5 will be more powerful than XSX (at least that's the best guess currently) and that will lead to a big box probably. This has to be properly cooled.
 

Ozorov

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,461
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To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

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👏
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,944
Official Staff Communication
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential capabilities and features of next generation consoles. While rumors can be part of this discussion, it has been increasingly difficult to separate rumors from confirmed fact.

To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

2. As always check your sources before posting any rumors. Do not cite banned sources or information from banned sites. You are responsible for what you post.

3. If you have sources or leaks of your own that you would like to share, please reach out to staff first to verify your information. If you do not verify your information with staff before posting you will be banned.
+1
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,404
Barcelona Spain
Dictator You said that the fluid simulation is precalculated inside and this is feasible in cutscene but I think and it will be the SSD stuff, it will make it feasible durinf gameplay. For example the Coalition was limited by the Geo destruction they can do during gameplay because of the memory but if you can stream in realtime this type of destruction, I imagine tons of stuff like this can be done in the background. Crazy ocean with fluid simulation in the background stuff like this. For a surface of water the distant would be precalculated in a tools and the interactive thins near the player calculated in realtime but in a better quality.

I thinka bout stuff like this for use the SSD in next generation consoles.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,720
I mean, going by that Wired Reporter he said that the „low speed“ version PS5 he used was in a silver tower enclosure.

And with some people in here being so selective in what they want to believe and what not, Ps5 having a tower design is not impossible, even with the patents and pics of the devkit probably pointing the other direction.
The silver tower enclosure is standard for early devkits, which are usually just PC towers.

Like this alpha dev kit for the Xbox One

 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,720
Official Staff Communication
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential capabilities and features of next generation consoles. While rumors can be part of this discussion, it has been increasingly difficult to separate rumors from confirmed fact.

To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

2. As always check your sources before posting any rumors. Do not cite banned sources or information from banned sites. You are responsible for what you post.

3. If you have sources or leaks of your own that you would like to share, please reach out to staff first to verify your information. If you do not verify your information with staff before posting you will be banned.
<3
 

Doctor Avatar

Member
Jan 10, 2019
932
Official Staff Communication
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential capabilities and features of next generation consoles. While rumors can be part of this discussion, it has been increasingly difficult to separate rumors from confirmed fact.

To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

2. As always check your sources before posting any rumors. Do not cite banned sources or information from banned sites. You are responsible for what you post.

3. If you have sources or leaks of your own that you would like to share, please reach out to staff first to verify your information. If you do not verify your information with staff before posting you will be banned.
Thank you.
 

•79•

Member
Sep 22, 2018
327
South West London, UK
I’ve followed these threads for ages but I’m not particularly knowledgable on the technology discussed. But I’m trying to form a picture of what’s being hinted here,

So in broad terms the suggestion has been that Xbox may well have an advantage in raw spec for both GPU and CPU.

And,

PS5 has a custom storage solution that has its own hardware/software that frees the APU and system ram for game use. Xbox SX’s SSD on the other hand will need the APU to operate and thus will have less grunt for game use?

So if that’s somewhat right it Microsoft would need to compensate for this by upping clocks and such to keep pace or exceed?
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,205
Europe
Official Staff Communication
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential capabilities and features of next generation consoles. While rumors can be part of this discussion, it has been increasingly difficult to separate rumors from confirmed fact.

To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

2. As always check your sources before posting any rumors. Do not cite banned sources or information from banned sites. You are responsible for what you post.

3. If you have sources or leaks of your own that you would like to share, please reach out to staff first to verify your information. If you do not verify your information with staff before posting you will be banned.
Thank you!
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,125
Phil Spencer believes Xbox Series X will lead in power and performance, just like they currently do with Xbox One X. He may end up wrong, but it doesn't get more direct than that.

He is showcasing confidence that what Xbox built will be more powerful than what Sony has built with PS5. He didn't need to mention PS5. What he said was clear.
the head of Xbox expresses a belief his product will be good. That’s literally all he is saying

obviously he wants Xbox fans and others to infer more from his statement. He also wants to push the general next gen agenda to distance from current gen and get people ready for that
 

Cyborg

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,626
Official Staff Communication
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To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

2. As always check your sources before posting any rumors. Do not cite banned sources or information from banned sites. You are responsible for what you post.

3. If you have sources or leaks of your own that you would like to share, please reach out to staff first to verify your information. If you do not verify your information with staff before posting you will be banned.
Thank you! A much needed action
 

Vimto

Member
Oct 29, 2017
573
Can we please not let the thread degenerate into who's the stronger console?

We don't have enough information, and more importantly, we're better than that.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,125
Is there an opposite of an ignore button? Fafalada doesn’t post a lot but I always love their posts - full of insight from (I think) an old console dev.
 

Firmus_Anguis

Member
Oct 30, 2017
752
Official Staff Communication
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential capabilities and features of next generation consoles. While rumors can be part of this discussion, it has been increasingly difficult to separate rumors from confirmed fact.

To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

2. As always check your sources before posting any rumors. Do not cite banned sources or information from banned sites. You are responsible for what you post.

3. If you have sources or leaks of your own that you would like to share, please reach out to staff first to verify your information. If you do not verify your information with staff before posting you will be banned.
This was needed - Thanks!
 

Berserker976

Member
Oct 27, 2017
184
I was thinking about how Bethesda games would probably benefit a whole lot from the added CPU power and SSDs when I realized next gen consoles not being revealed is probably a big reason why we haven't seen anything from Starfield. I'd be willing to bet Starfield finally gets revealed next year at E3 (or maybe even the PS5 reveal)
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,725
Germany
Back.

End of an Era - Banned for a meme.

Decided to come back with something meaningful.

Here it is!

My updated prediction.

Base:

for Xbox:

  • Xbox was easy. They already outlined the specs by multipliers. 2 times power of the Xbox One X GPU . What ever it is, as a firm value it will possibly fall into the range given by the prediction.
  • They also solved some issues I was so adamant doubtful about. Their design is an elegant way to solve cooling and noise. The format of at least 150mm x 150mm allows MS to use slow 140mm fans at the top and whatever they want at the bottom. If they would go with Noctua fans that thing would be not noticeable if the supposed cooler is able handle the heat dissipation.

for PS5:
  • Still based on Oberon.This is the most firm spec rumor we still have about PS5. There is no other information out there that would convince me otherwise.
  • Yes, Oberon is 2Ghz. But with RDNA we now have 3 clocks: the base clock, the game clock and the boost clock (which is the 2Ghz). The game clock is below the boost clock and is the average achieved clock. I went from there.
  • I upped the spec by going full CU count (no deactivated cores for both predictions actually) and I also upped to clock to 1900 Mhz GPU.
  • I assume Sony will still have to manage the high clock implications with form factor or further clock down. The design of the PS5 dev kit is for me a clear indicator Sony knows about the challenges high clocks come with.

for both:
  • 3.2 Ghz CPU is a safe baseline. More is always better. And yes, I saw the WindowsCentral article.
  • 1TB NVMe SSD, I don't think it will be more
  • Memory and memory speed I see no difference, honestly
  • 13GB+3GB (16GB) was mentioned in a WindowsCentral article for Xbox Series X. Jez Corden, as I know him, only put out numbers if he has 2 or more vetted sources on this. I expect something similar for PS5.

Again this is a prediction, not a claim or a fact that it will play out this way! Just to be sure everybody understands! There is also nothing wrong to be wrong on any on this because it is speculation!

Remarks:
  • If the 12 TF happens Xeontech will win our the avatar bet.
  • My bet with AegonSnake is canceled after his awful behavior against me later in the thread. He will be ignored from now on.
------------------

On a side note:

I am verified as a person who was a games journalist but my information is not verified.
Kudos for putting out this clarification! Edit: Honestly, these are real kudos and not what some want to make out of it.
 
Last edited:
Aug 26, 2019
6,343
I was thinking about how Bethesda games would probably benefit a whole lot from the added CPU power and SSDs when I realized next gen consoles not being revealed is probably a big reason why we haven't seen anything from Starfield. I'd be willing to bet Starfield finally gets revealed next year at E3 (or maybe even the PS5 reveal)
I don’t think Beth is waiting on the consoles to be revealed. I think both Starfield and ES6 are early in development. Even though they said Starfield is in a playable state after E3 2018.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,756
Official Staff Communication
The purpose of this thread is to discuss the potential capabilities and features of next generation consoles. While rumors can be part of this discussion, it has been increasingly difficult to separate rumors from confirmed fact.

To help clearly separate fact from rumor, please note the following:

1. Official detailed specs have not been released, certainly not enough to conclude which console will be "more powerful" than the other. Claiming as a fact that your favorite console is the strongest will be treated as thread derailment. Rumors should be treated as such until we get official word.

2. As always check your sources before posting any rumors. Do not cite banned sources or information from banned sites. You are responsible for what you post.

3. If you have sources or leaks of your own that you would like to share, please reach out to staff first to verify your information. If you do not verify your information with staff before posting you will be banned.

Should make things better .
 

Berserker976

Member
Oct 27, 2017
184
I don’t think Beth is waiting on the consoles to be revealed. I think both Starfield and ES6 are early in development. Even though they said Starfield is in a playable state after E3 2018.
I certainly hope that's not the case. Starfield had been rumored for at least a couple of years before Bethesda finally acknowledged it. If they don't have anything to show by E3 2020 I'd be pretty concerned I think.
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,031
Bethesda has presumably 4 next gen games announced, one of them might be cancelled or in trouble (Ghostwire Tokyo).

In case you were wondering, these games have no platforms announced (iirc):

Starfield
The Elder Scrolls VI
Deathloop
GhostWire: Tokyo
 

c0de

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,944
Is the PS5 up to 15tf yet?

Last rumoured figures put it close to 14tf, right?
It depends. If Xbox is going to be rumored at 14, PS5 will follow :D
Seriously, basically nothing specific is known, besides Klee being interestingly very specific when it comes to the Xbox SSD while I think that *exactly* 2 GB/sec sounds unlikely. This sounds like a hard limit which I cannot see and which would also not make any sense, so it would be in the ballpark of around that.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,205
Europe
Back.

End of an Era - Banned for a meme.

Decided to come back with something meaningful.

Here it is!

My updated prediction.

Base:

for Xbox:

  • Xbox was easy. They already outlined the specs by multipliers. 2 times power of the Xbox One X GPU . What ever it is, as a firm value it will possibly fall into the range given by the prediction.
  • They also solved some issues I was so adamant doubtful about. Their design is an elegant way to solve cooling and noise. The format of at least 150mm x 150mm allows MS to use slow 140mm fans at the top and whatever they want at the bottom. If they would go with Noctua fans that thing would be not noticeable if the supposed cooler is able handle the heat dissipation.
  • If the 12 TF happens Xeontech will win our the avatar bet.
  • AegonSnake on the other hand, you are on record for 14TF and I think this I will not lose.

for PS5:
  • Still based on Oberon.This is the most firm spec rumor we still have about PS5. There is no other information out there that would convince me otherwise.
  • I upped the spec by going full CU count (no deactivated cores for both predictions actually) and I also upped to clock to 1900 Mhz GPU.
  • I assume Sony will still have to manage the high clock implications with form factor or further clock down. The design of the PS5 dev kit is for me a clear indicator Sony knows about the challenges high clocks come with.

for both:
  • 3.2 Ghz CPU is a safe baseline. More is always better. And yes, I saw the WindowsCentral article.
  • 1TB NVMe SSD, I don't think it will be more
  • Memory and memory speed I see no difference, honestly

Again this is a prediction, not a claim or a fact that it will play out this way! Just to be sure everybody understands! There is also nothing wrong to be wrong on any on this because it is speculation!

------------------

On a side note:


Kudos for putting out this clarification!
Memory setup is intriguing.I also think both will have 16GB GDDR6 ,Sony with classic 256 bit bus but what about Series X? People say that Scarlett video from E3 means 320 bit bus, what do you make of that?

And would 256 bit bandwith be enough this time for next gen APU?
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,125
Option 2 would be the best because you can use a slower fan, it is also important to have an intake fan that the PSU gets some cooling too. Though they will need some dust filtering this way.

Passive inflow for the main 'chamber' with the exhaust fan pulling air through inlets at the bottom. Have the PSU behind a bulkhead/separator so it isn't adding heat to the main area, and cool it passively/with its own fan and inlet/exhaust (depending on power draw or how good a PSU they're willing to put in)
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,725
Germany
Memory setup is intriguing.I also think both will have 16GB GDDR6 ,Sony with classic 256 bit bus but what about Series X? People say that Scarlett video from E3 means 320 bit bus, what do you make of that?

And would 256 bit bandwith be enough this time for next gen APU?
I always was skeptical of that conclusion of a 320-bit bus. The reason is while we are know now about Xbox Series X, MS talked more SKUs in the mix (e.g. Lockhart, dev kit Dante). Just think that the logic board you saw is for a dev kit or Lockhart with a 10GB configuration. Or maybe it was something completely different.

Is it enough from a bandwidth standpoint? In the past I wouldn't have said so, but with that CPU and NVMe and compression technologies it could be just enough. And that is how I think about it. For PS5 it is for sure enough.
 
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defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,796
Orlando, Florida
The most interesting thing to me about this whole next gen lead up is how we know nothing about expanding storage, I can’t wait for someone to fully detail the ssd tech so we can finally start speculating. If they’re hitting 2 and 3 gigabytes per second like rumors suggest they’re going to, were gonna need usb 3.2 2x2 (why do they not just call it usb 4) which are theoretically 20 gbps built in on every USB port on the machine unless they have a designated ssd usb port or nvme slot which I doubt for either. Even if we hit max 3.2 2x2 speeds which never happens that’s 2.5 gigabytes per second only if I remember the math right. We need thunderbolt 3.
 
Last edited:

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,125
Memory setup is intriguing.I also think both will have 16GB GDDR6 ,Sony with classic 256 bit bus but what about Series X? People say that Scarlett video from E3 means 320 bit bus, what do you make of that?

And would 256 bit bandwith be enough this time for next gen APU?

Does the official reveal of the box make the render more/less likely to be a real thing? If it wouldn't fit in that box, then it was either a devkit render or simply a mockup of an X1X style motherboard. At some point it can become an irrelevant reference?
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,205
Europe
Does the official reveal of the box make the render more/less likely to be a real thing? If it wouldn't fit in that box, then it was either a devkit render or simply a mockup of an X1X style motherboard. At some point it can become an irrelevant reference?
Frankly, i have no idea. Remains to be seen.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,720
Reminder Colbert 's estimation is on what we know. It maybe seems like he's underrating things a little, but this is, to again iterate, based on what is available today.

Also yes, everyone hopes he's wrong :D
 

senjutsusage

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
Back.

End of an Era - Banned for a meme.

Decided to come back with something meaningful.

Here it is!

My updated prediction.

Base:

for Xbox:

  • Xbox was easy. They already outlined the specs by multipliers. 2 times power of the Xbox One X GPU . What ever it is, as a firm value it will possibly fall into the range given by the prediction.
  • They also solved some issues I was so adamant doubtful about. Their design is an elegant way to solve cooling and noise. The format of at least 150mm x 150mm allows MS to use slow 140mm fans at the top and whatever they want at the bottom. If they would go with Noctua fans that thing would be not noticeable if the supposed cooler is able handle the heat dissipation.
  • If the 12 TF happens Xeontech will win our the avatar bet.
  • AegonSnake on the other hand, you are on record for 14TF and I think this I will not lose.

for PS5:
  • Still based on Oberon.This is the most firm spec rumor we still have about PS5. There is no other information out there that would convince me otherwise.
  • I upped the spec by going full CU count (no deactivated cores for both predictions actually) and I also upped to clock to 1900 Mhz GPU.
  • I assume Sony will still have to manage the high clock implications with form factor or further clock down. The design of the PS5 dev kit is for me a clear indicator Sony knows about the challenges high clocks come with.

for both:
  • 3.2 Ghz CPU is a safe baseline. More is always better. And yes, I saw the WindowsCentral article.
  • 1TB NVMe SSD, I don't think it will be more
  • Memory and memory speed I see no difference, honestly

Again this is a prediction, not a claim or a fact that it will play out this way! Just to be sure everybody understands! There is also nothing wrong to be wrong on any on this because it is speculation!

------------------

On a side note:


Kudos for putting out this clarification!
I find it hard to believe that neither Microsoft or Sony are going beyond 16GB of ram. The bare minimum they should have imo is 20GB. Sweet spot should be 24GB. 16GB seems like a swing and a miss on a very important spec. Why switch to SSDs and then only have 16GB to use them with? They both need to go bigger than that imo. Allow that extra memory to be used for game enhancing features that gamers will appreciate. I'm sure there are all kinds of things they can come up with.
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,725
Germany
I find it hard to believe that neither Microsoft or Sony are going beyond 16GB of ram. The bare minimum they should have imo is 20GB. Sweet spot should be 24GB. 16GB seems like a swing and a miss on a very important spec. Why switch to SSDs and then only have 16GB to use them with? They both need to go bigger than that imo. Allow that extra memory to be used for game enhancing features that gamers will appreciate. I'm sure there are all kinds of things they can come up with.
AFAIK 13+3 (16) was mentioned in a WindowsCentral article. Jez Corden, as I know him, only put out numbers if he has 2 or more vetted sources on this.
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,031
No way in hell is Sony release a console that is not above 10tf. Schreier already said that they are targeting above Stadia.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,205
Europe
AFAIK 13+3 (16) was mentioned in a WindowsCentral article. Jez Corden, as I know him, only put out numbers if he has 2 or more vetted sources on this.
I think 16 gigs is just fine for next gen considering very fast SSD, so i’m not worried about that at all. I’m curious about bandwidth tho :)
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,720
That's what escapes me at the moment. Imagine creating a Navi GPU, only for it to be outdated come 2020 by some ways compared to your competitor who is also using the same GPU, with a console that is launching at the same period.
 

msia2k75

Member
Nov 1, 2017
467
I find it hard to believe that neither Microsoft or Sony are going beyond 16GB of ram. The bare minimum they should have imo is 20GB. Sweet spot should be 24GB. 16GB seems like a swing and a miss on a very important spec. Why switch to SSDs and then only have 16GB to use them with? They both need to go bigger than that imo. Allow that extra memory to be used for game enhancing features that gamers will appreciate. I'm sure there are all kinds of things they can come up with.
How do you pay for that? And as importantly, how, in the long run, do you reduce cost for such a memory setup?
 
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