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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
- Start date
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First party will push the SSD for other things and not only to load textures and geometry.
This is logic you give a tool to devs they will use it at the max. For example, Sony Santa Monica told they were limited on PS4 for the fight between Kratos and The Stranger(Baldur). Normally a hit would have send Kratos kilometers from the fight. The setpiece will be very spectacular next generation.
Sony literally can't outmanouver them. You can't cheat physics and heat(and power draw) is a problem. Look at Series X. It's so bulky precisely to handle heat. What would Sony put inside to outmanouver them? Magical GPU at 16TF? Impossible.
There are two realistic scenarios right now. Either Sony is around the same power (+/- 10%), which makes the whole discussion pointless, as that will make hardware equal ground. Or PS5 is noticably weaker(9-10TF), but also cheaper(I can't imagine Sony screwing up so badly they end up with weaker device at same price).
If they're cheaper MS will market with Gamepass as a differentiator, which will nicely cover a lot of price difference(and I stand by what I said earlier - Gamepass will make for a best launch ever, with hundreds of titles available instantly on your new box) and push Lockhart for the masses(gamers will shell out money for better hardware anyway). If you think most people give rat's ass about 4K, I believe you will find yourself surprised. Lockhart as a cheap device(priced at $300-350) would then be the easiest way into next generation and a nice option for people who don't own a 4K tv.
If they're equally powerful and equally priced, Lockhart will be a nice undercut and hard to counter(price IS an issue for non-enthusiast market), while Scarlett will keep the gaming community happy as equal rival.
In both cases - they feel pretty safe. The reason why Phil doesn't talk direct numbers is twofold. First, they're likely not locked down yet. If they build that tower to handle heat, they must have left some headway for adjustments. Second - he cannot be sure what Sony has. He's just taunting them a bit, grabbing attention while not committing anything that he would have to retract in case of surprise(surprise being PS5 having 0.X TF more).
Totally agree with you. I love the ps games. But man if the ps4 pro was just as silent as the xb1x it would be so much better.
I truly hope sony makes the thing just as silent as the xbox series x is suppose to be.
Wouldnt suprise me if the series x is basically taking the vapor chamber design of the x1x and put it in the series x
Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long, long time.
And look at what being a self-declared 'insider' did for him. Searching for that next forum adulation dopamine hit he overstretched himself, basically libeled someone and got banned sharpish and all the fanlings hanging onto his every word suddenly didn't know him.
Didn't he also try to spin off his insider status to make a site that you pay to access?
This is the problem with 'insiders' they get one bit of info from a friend or someone they know on the internet and want to have the full 15 mins of fame by continually acting that they are still getting all the juicy info.
Randy Pitchford is Dennis Dyack.
Dennis Dyack is Randy Pitchford.
This is a good post.
I do think it's Sony's game to lose, and that the prices and value-per-tflop will be an issue moreso than the absolute TFLOP number.
Or, and what I think is closer to reality, Xbox went out and built the most powerful thing they could build and is confident they aren't lacking in any area. Now whether they are stronger than PS5 or not (although they clearly want to be, and seem to suspect they are) may ultimately prove irrelevant because people will be attracted to their very powerful high end offering that seems like it will be lacking in no major area, and then there will be people who want an easier access point to next gen by buying the cheaper SKU.
Microsoft's strategy, if executed right, and the prices are right, won't fail. It will be met with success. Xbox is a brand with recognition and a foundation in gaming. It doesn't need to be as powerful as Playstation. They just need to not shoot themselves in the foot and release amazing games while continuing to offer incredible services. The rest will take care of itself. Being able to say, day one, your next gen system offers full access to a recent xbox one owner's entire catalog dating back 4 generations of xbox consoles is an amazing offering next to the value of gamepass, which will coincidentally will have a brand new Halo game at launch. What's the easiest, most affordable way for people to play Halo on an xbox console holiday 2020? Lockhart if it's happening. At the same time I'm sure Microsoft won't be mad if PC gamers hop in on the fun as well via gamepass on windows. Infinite IS launching via gamepass on windows day one right?
What about 10th generation consoles around ~2027, how would they be able to offer a generational leap beyond PS5 and Xbox Series X? I don't think 5nm or 3nm alone, with monolithic chips will be enough to get there. So I think Chiplets or MCM will be a necessity, along with some type of memory other than GDDR.
At some point 2.5D or 3D chip stacking will be both necessary and feasible for consoles.
At some point 2.5D or 3D chip stacking will be both necessary and feasible for consoles.
Oh I am not arguing against MS using jazzy names to bedazzle otherwise mundane aspects of their hardware or software, rather the belief that some folks have that regardless of how much MS can pull out of the GPU, PS5 could still beat it. At this time, at the least with MS, there is some clarity to the limited scope of the reveal (although, given MS have category not stated an actual TF figure, instead of relying on multipliers to signify the magnitude of performance gain- which, as shown by DF equates to a 5700XT having roughly "2X" the performance of X's GPU).
Everything besides the multipliers (4x CPU, 8x XO's GPU, 2x X's GPU), presence of SoC and NVMe, is secondhand information.
As for PS5, everything save Cerny's comment on PS5's storage solution's comparative performance improvements over existing retail market solutions and iirc, 8c/16T CPU, is secondhand leaks.
So, it sounds incredulous to me when some folks decide to cast their vote of confidence for one side over another.
In terms of MS's aim and if there is truth to Lockhart's existence, however, then it stands to reason that MS will do everything it can to go after the power crown especially if they intend to sell it at a greater MSRP than its competitor.
MCM is the future for sure, another question is if MS/Sony will do a refresh this gen with MCM, it might be too expensive early on, im fucking dreading what Nvidia is gonna charge for their large MCM Hopper GPU.
that it would be the easiest thing for devs if the consoles were identical most likely
I've been wondering the same things.
I'm not sure a PS5 Pro in 2023 and Xbox Series X2 in 2024 will happen. Sure they might though.
And I cannot even freaking imagine what Nvidia will charge for a 4-chip MCM Hopper based RTX 4080 Ti card (assuming Ampere will be RTX 3000 series).
Nice post. I don't know about Sony NOT being able to beat them on power, but I get it you used an extreme number as 16TF to make the point, but I think a lot of people are underestimating what Microsoft are offering day one to gamers, and if there's a cheaper model that allows many gamers to get in on the fun at a far cheaper price, it will receive support, probably much more than many of you think. Not everybody cares about having the most powerful thing out there. For gamers that want Xbox and desire that Series X is there for them. Microsoft, strategically, is setup for the best console launch they've ever had. Doesn't mean it will sell the best or even outsell the PS5, but I can tell you that rarely have I ever seen a company so perfectly positioned to offer incredible value to gamers on day one.
You wish! Nothing has been confirmed. If anything, I can see the X being on top on account of how massive (and ugly) it is. The PS5 should be smaller...We'll see!
That's a reasonable analysis, if somewhat slanted in MS favour. For instance, if Sony can release a console that is $100 cheaper than the X withing reasonable touching distance say 11 tf, and say $100 more expensive than Lockheart, I think that will be a pretty attractive proposition, since it would be vastly more powerful than the latter, and negligibly different to the latter.
Again though, there doesn't seem to be enough to actually speculate on what Sony has, other than they are still going for high power. There was speculation a while back that they were going to offer two models. Who knows...
How would this even be possible? Unless ms has some garbage like kinect in the box or an overly expensive top tier ssd. Either sony is significantly weaker ($100 less) or they're even in power.
I am little heated that klee dropped that he has the specs only to ghost us, thats fucking torture lol.
LOL
Now:
Gamepass + xbox one X vs PS4 PRO and Slim.
Xbox one S for the masses
repeat the strategy, but now it will work? UHAUHAUHAUHA
It'll take all wheels churning and the entirety of the MS company giving blank-check to Xbox for the Xbox team to be within striking distance of Sony next generation, provided Sony doesn't repeat the PS3 fiasco.
For people who are invested in the Xbox ecosystem, they're in for a ride tho.
Crossgen is going to be challenging enough for devs when you have to factor in PS4/XB1/PS4 Pro/XB1X and XSX/PS5. Then you have PC and possibly Switch depending on the game. That's a pain in the ass so I can empathize with any multi-platform developer. I can't imagine how bad some of these games are going to run on base PS4/XB1 considering Fallen Order.
More Pastebin fun :)
- Latest info on ps5/xsx:
- - Performance is around the same for both, with a small advantage for PS5 (which won't make much of a difference in the end, imo)
- - ps5 ~13TF / xsx ~12TF
- - Both use GDDR6, no, there's no HBM2 going on.
- - Cpu clock is 3.2Ghz for PS5 and 3.4Ghz for XSX, both have a very low power standby mode
- - Current PS5 devkits have the GPU running a little over 2Ghz, XSX @ 1.6 or 1.7Ghz
- - PS5 is supposed to have 24GB for retail, XSX at the moment is 16GB, not sure if that's set though
- - PS5 SSD 4.5GB/s, XSX 2GB/s, both 1TB
- - Both use TSMC's EUV/7nm+.
- More people will be reporting this in the next few weeks. Info has been out for a while now.
Just reads like a summary of recent discussion here. Also 3.4 GHz for XSX CPU? Isn't it either 3.5 or 3.6?
The more the man talks, I can't tell what's fucking BS and what's actual info. Is he saying that he is not impressed with next gen HW and that there is a notable performance discrepancy between the two?
Fucking guy.
I raise you a pastebin from 11/17/2019, weeks before WindowsCentral leaks, Xsx reveal...
That's how I initially read it. But after thinking about it, I think it's just a poorly worded backpedal. 'I just want everyone to be great' type thing.
Be right back, writing a pastebin with my own prediction.
Wow, out of those specs which ones were confirmed by MS during the reveal?
If you nail stuff like this pastebin did after the reveals, then you'll have my 🏹🙇♂️.
We know one part is possibly false.
Devs knew it was 12 teraflops.
Well, the only people with known access to actual developers and who have been willing to publicly say one is more powerful than the other have all said PS5.
I mean, 24 to 16 GB of memory isnt a mere "difference in the end", although I believe Sony will have more/faster memory.
We believe gies or not now I'm not sure where everyone stand
User Banned (2 weeks): threatening another member
So basically Klee has the final specs but dribble feeds or waits to confirm if another source says it first. Well guys. Time for some ninja stuff to happen. I'll signal the horn.
Arthur Gies is squarely in MS's circles. Won't surprise me if only first party devs / MS folks spoke to him.
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