They didn't bring up any new points already not beaten to death here. The key thing is they didn't label it implausible like some have here.
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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Im not sure how literal we should take the 2x, it might just be "yeah my engineers told me it's like 2x as powerful, pretty good huh?"" people don'tt really casually say "oh it's 2.25x faster"
But if it's truly a 5700 XT, 2x does seem to match up almost too well, since even if you count the larger bus width & likely faster GDDR6 that the SX provides over the 5700 XT, you have to couple that with lower clocks due to console thermal limits (say 1.9 down to 1.8) either way your ending up with 2x over the XBX.
Digital Foundry is just doing their job and remaining skeptical of these consoles in terms of thermals and everything as they should until we have final specs reveal for both. However, the one thing that I think they are not paying enough attention to here based on the interview information from Phil Spencer and Jason Ronald is that the form factor of the Xbox Series X was absolutely developed per direction to the engineering team to target a high performance console without regard for typical thoughts on design constraints or aesthetics. So their design relative to cooling and such may permit them to achieve things that currently don't make sense based on console history.
True, but I am a little surprised they don't appear to have sources confirming things one way or the other.
Yeah see Microsoft is now saying twice the GPU power, while people have been stuck talking in twice the Teraflops. It's an entirely different discussion.
What is providing twice the GPU power throughput at a 4K resolution? Literally the 5700 XT.
Now, it is going to be a custom part and not just an off the shelf 5700 XT, don't misunderstand me. It's going to be a more mature 7nm process that provides benefits on which I can't speak. As has been the case in the last couple generations, the GPUs will have features of the next-generation GPU, like the ray-traycing.
It makes sense.
it does.
but also makes sense to say twice the power to mean twice the TF because 6->12 despite the architectural changes
depends who MS is communicating to and what they're trying to get across
your view and measurements are very logical and I think fits well with what we might get - but too many unknowns to be completely sure. And of course people will always push to believe the biggest number
Y'all are looking wayyyyyyy too deep into a statement lmao. Learn to just take things at face value.
DF has been underestimating this gen since the wired reveal. Go back and watch their comments on RT even on videos after Sony said its hardware accelerated six months later.
I guess they are being skeptical of 12 Navi tflops but whatever. This just tells me they don't know any more than we do. I expected df to be more knowledgeable than the gcn tflops brigade.
Disappointed to say the least.
I guess they are being skeptical of 12 Navi tflops but whatever. This just tells me they don't know any more than we do. I expected df to be more knowledgeable than the gcn tflops brigade.
Disappointed to say the least.
IMO it shows they had no idea all along and people were placing too much trust in their hints.
Let's begin with you. You are wearing a Helmet with a full face mask. So zero face value, right? *joking*
Can't blame them.
They work with what they know. Right now we are going with good faith with nothing factual that can support our speculations.
That will hopefully change once more information about RDNA2 comes around (if it's good news). That will show if 12 teraflops for the Xbox Series X is viable or not.
One thing to clarify. 5700xt has almost 2x more fps in 4k than rx580 but we have take into account that numbers of frames also depands on cpu calculation. So if we have 2x more fps and the same time for cpu calculation that means 5700xt is more than 2x faster than rx580. In conclusion even slightly downlocked 5700xt is good for Spencer "twice gpu performance" ;)
Agreed.
Allowing the press to run with the 12TF number just to be proven wrong later on would be the most unnecessary PR blunder I've seen in gaming in a long time. I'm amazed to see DF running with that speculation.
To put it another way, if we're talking pr. What sounds better? "Twice the power" or "nearly three times the power"?
Have you actually watched the video? Because they actually don't run with that number ... they question it. Or did I just misunderstood what you wanted to say?
That's a really good point, the form factor change makes it even harder to predict what is and isn't possible.
It looked more like cardboard than 3D printed. lol3D printed mockup
Yeah I've been wondering if there's actually split chips inside that console than one single monolith.
duolith?
duolith?
Yeah, I've been avoiding DF more and more lately. But I love John Linneman and still watch his content.
A good portion of the interiors will be heatspreaders, radiators, and fans.
This is also why i believe the 12tf. Would they really risk it again to explain every little thing?
What? Because of Gears Tactics, FFVII Remake Prologue, Last of Us 2, and Ghost of Tsushima?
New consoles never launch with a great lineup. You might get one amazing game per new console if you are lucky: e.g. Halo: CE, Zelda: BoTW, or Altered Beast. But there's no way you're getting awesome lineups from Series X or PS5 at launch. That's just crazy talk.
A lot of things have changed, AMD have confirmed HW RT in RDNA 2 & $499 for Consoles seems set in stone, im pretty sure both PS5 & SX are using 40+ CU GPU's since they are coming out in late 2020 after all, but not 100%.
I think it's fine to be a bit conservative.
Inflating the power in non-numerical ways could take you WAY higher than 3x - just add VRS and RT and even 12 'GCN' TF would run you a much larger multiple of X1X regardless. The problem is there's pretty much no upper-bound how far you can take this(it is after all, actually moving the goal-posts), and competition can do it too, ending up in PR contest no customer can keep up with pretty quickly.
Spec inflation didn't really do 360 or PS3 any favours, and it didn't hurt PS4 or X1 to come out with actual "lower" official GFlops announcements than their predecessors.
It wouldn't be much of a blunder at all. MS only gave multipliers and those are true. The conclusions drawn from that are on the people who decided to do that. Besides, the vast majority of people have no clue what a TF is anyway. This would have no bearing on anything.
The 'strongest console' thing is protected by how they've worded that as well.
If Microsoft wasn't factoring in IPC increases from architectural changes then they couldn't claim that the 8 core Zen 2 in the Series X CPU is 4 or 5 times more powerful than the One X.
Why would they be focused on a metric like tflops for their GPU comparison when they ignore it for their CPU comparison?
With all these people apparently having sources about next-gen console specifications and performance targets, I'm surprised DF doesn't seem to have any clue about these. Kind of puts into question what kind of sources they have, they must not be very close to the developers and/or manufacturers.
Of course, this is assuming they don't already know and just are pretending not to know until their NDA expires and they can talk about it.
Of course, this is assuming they don't already know and just are pretending not to know until their NDA expires and they can talk about it.
Split discrete packages is somewhat antithetical to unified memory. Perhaps chiplets on same package, but 0.01% chance they're discrete packages.
Preach.
That's why I think it's implausible though. You have multiple press outlets running with 12TF, and I'm assuming they didn't arrive at the number with napkin math, it'd be easy to just issue a correction with no harm done. It looks worse to wait 3 months and come out and say it's actually 9-10TF and they gain nothing from letting the lie sit so long.
Going with a monolith design while also not using a monolithic design.
This is how MS will surprise sony :p
Well the 5700 XT is Vega 64 level, which is around 12 TFLOPS. There isn't really a lie here. No one has officially said RDNA TFLOPS, just insiders.
I would be pretty surprised if they don't know stuff or don't have some decent sources honestly.
And WindowsCentral.com. They explicitly state RDNA in their article ... Not that I say it is correct.
They are a solid source, but im just saying, a custom 5700 XT isn't impossible, but seems pretty unlikely.
chris 1515
About NVMe:
Do you think NVMe drives will be replaceable or not replaceable? PS5 and Xbox Series X?
About NVMe:
Do you think NVMe drives will be replaceable or not replaceable? PS5 and Xbox Series X?
That was quick, but you are already way too much used to write "Xbox One" when it is now "Xbox Series" LOL
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