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CosmicBolt

Self-Requested Ban
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Oct 28, 2017
884


Later in another tweet komachi mentions Oberon = Ariel. So it's likely Oberon is PS5 GPU.

Assuming that Chinese forum leak is correct, which had Oberon at 300mm2 and Arden at 350mm2. It's curious that the leaker mentions the codename of the GPU (Oberon) not the APU.

What if the 300mm2 die size of Oberon is for the PS5 GPU and not the entire APU.

Then it also means 350mm2 die size of Arden is the GPU of XBSX and not APU.

-So, PS5 GPU(Oberon) is 300mm2.
- XBSX GPU (Arden) is 350mm2.

Both big GPUs compared to RX 5700XT.

*Note- this is just my theory, to make sense of the different leaks of the many codenames for next gen console APUs and GPUs.
 

JaggedSac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
Burbs of Atlanta
You guys are seriously over thinking about this.


PS5 launching at 399 and being 10TF would be a mega ton.


XSX can have the 12 TF monster at 499, but if Sony can get the price jump it'll absolutely win everywhere in terms of sales.


They should do this and spend the rest of their R&D on PS5 Pro and make it the 599 flagship

2tf less doesn't get you $100 less in price. Heck people in here are saying a 4tf Lockhart couldn't hit $300 and that has 8tf less, no disc drive, less ram, a slightly lower clocked CPU, and a smaller chassis.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,000
Europe
The issue with this is the assumption that sony changed their APU in 2019, rather than planning this and making an early prototype (its possible because Ariel was the first Navi die, was in development before even the development of the desktop navi), which means they had a built prototype navi with some of sony's features. Because of that they could have sent devkits early. So they could have sent early prototype kits, and then send a RDNA 2 based kit. Sony can do that because they were a significant part of all the development process.
Of course they didn't "change APU" 1 year before new console launch.That's a complete phantasmagoria.As i said, considering that Sony worked closely with AMD, GPU in PS5 was tailored to what they asked for from AMD.What that is we'll find out soon.

They didn't design 2 different GPUs/APUs for different dev kits,that's a fantasy.
 

Deleted member 1589

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Oct 25, 2017
8,576
One more interesting thing; if we believe AquariusZi, he mentions that Anubis' APU structure looks like Xbox One X at a glance.

Although i would love it if someone that can read chinese can confirm that for me.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Is 88 ROPs even a thing?
To go back in time, of course. Cerny is very committed to backwards compatibility.

Xhub6.jpg
 

TheUnseenTheUnheard

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 25, 2018
9,647
I wasn't around for when Phil retweeted the DF article. That's very exciting stuff. Next gen is going to be crazy.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,753
QUESTION: PS3 BC is still a huge unknown at this point. Given what we know about ZEN 2 and NAVI is there anything in particular with their architectures that would be helpful in making PS3 BC easier, besides raw power of course?

On the subject of raw power, should the PS5 be capable of brute forcing PS3 BC?
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
QUESTION: PS3 BC is still a huge unknown at this point. Given what we know about ZEN 2 and NAVI is there anything in particular with their architectures that would be helpful in making PS3 BC easier, besides raw power of course?

On the subject of raw power, should the PS5 be capable of brute forcing PS3 BC?
if they make a capable emulator, maybe. I'm guessing they'll settle for PSNow until the near future.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,753

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,753
if they make a capable emulator, maybe. I'm guessing they'll settle for PSNow until the near future.

Still don't think that'll be the case. I don't see Sony wanting to have to install PS3 blades in the Azure datacenters and keep manufacturing more as they continue to expand. I have to believe they will want to work out a BC solution so they can run everything from PS5 blades to save on manufacturing costs and rental costs in the datacenters.

Edit.
Whoops, DP
 

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566


Later in another tweet komachi mentions Oberon = Ariel. So it's likely Oberon is PS5 GPU.

Assuming that Chinese forum leak is correct, which had Oberon at 300mm2 and Arden at 350mm2. It's curious that the leaker mentions the codename of the GPU (Oberon) not the APU.

What if the 300mm2 die size of Oberon is for the PS5 GPU and not the entire APU.

Then it also means 350mm2 die size of Arden is the GPU of XBSX and not APU.

-So, PS5 GPU(Oberon) is 300mm2.
- XBSX GPU (Arden) is 350mm2.

Both big GPUs compared to RX 5700XT.

*Note- this is just my theory, to make sense of the different leaks of the many codenames for next gen console APUs and GPUs.

maybe oberon is 300mm2 at 7nm+. that would mean it was 360mm2 on 7nm. should line up with the bigger navi rumors.

300 mm2 means a 40 CU gpu at 251mm2, a 40 mm2 cpu and 9mm2 for everything else. maybe 9mm2 is possible on 7nm. the hd 7870 was 212mm2 and the jaguar was 70mm2 so everything else in the ps4 apu was 68mm2. a 4x reduction in node size and we are looking at 17mm2 for that everything else. maybe hbm controllers take up less space on the apu? i cant seem to get an answer for this. i do recall hearing that the vega 7 gpu was so big because of the wide hbm2 bus.

regardless, that 300mm2 calculation does not take into account any rt hardware that might take up space on the gpu. rough estimates here pegged RT hardware at 10%. so thats 25mm2. how do you fit that in the 300mm2 oberon budget?

if the 300mm2 rumor is true, it has to be on 7nm+.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,168
User warned: Discussing banned sources; Disregarding staff post
If this Thomas Phishour is the real deal and those specs are real - I don't understand why MS wouldn't do the same. Someething seems amiss.
 

Bosch

Banned
May 15, 2019
3,680


Later in another tweet komachi mentions Oberon = Ariel. So it's likely Oberon is PS5 GPU.

Assuming that Chinese forum leak is correct, which had Oberon at 300mm2 and Arden at 350mm2. It's curious that the leaker mentions the codename of the GPU (Oberon) not the APU.

What if the 300mm2 die size of Oberon is for the PS5 GPU and not the entire APU.

Then it also means 350mm2 die size of Arden is the GPU of XBSX and not APU.

-So, PS5 GPU(Oberon) is 300mm2.
- XBSX GPU (Arden) is 350mm2.

Both big GPUs compared to RX 5700XT.

*Note- this is just my theory, to make sense of the different leaks of the many codenames for next gen console APUs and GPUs.

It is not just the GPU it is the whole APU with CPU too.
 

androvsky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,503
Still don't think that'll be the case. I don't see Sony wanting to have to install PS3 blades in the Azure datacenters and keep manufacturing more as they continue to expand. I have to believe they will want to work out a BC solution so they can run everything from PS5 blades to save on manufacturing costs and rental costs in the datacenters.

Edit.
Whoops, DP
Iirc, the PS3's memory bus between the Cell and Rambus memory was unusual, and was going to require extra engineering to shrink it further. Die shrinks aren't free in general at certain stages, and the last node the Cell was on that I know of was 45nm. I agree, Sony either has to waste a bunch of money shrinking and producing Cell servers, or develop an emulator.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
Iirc, the PS3's memory bus between the Cell and Rambus memory was unusual, and was going to require extra engineering to shrink it further. Die shrinks aren't free in general at certain stages, and the last node the Cell was on that I know of was 45nm. I agree, Sony either has to waste a bunch of money shrinking and producing Cell servers, or develop an emulator.
When it's put like that it seems silly if Sony don't try to get ps3 emulation down ASAP.

The dream would be a Sony console that plays all of its games but I know that's a very slim hope of coming true.
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,840
Trust me I don't believe it. He's going to give out GPU details but refrains from any specifics on memory / SSD because - NDA? OK.
That person is bullshit and you guys need stop bringing neogaf posters in here if you don't want to get banned.

As for a hypothetical answer:

The NDA around X is more known to people than the NDA around Y. So if Person Z would leak NDA Y, they'd be found easier.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,104
If this Thomas Phishour is the real deal and those specs are real - I don't understand why MS wouldn't do the same. Someething seems amiss.

Forget if he is real or not why do you think just because Sony does something MS can do the same ?
That make no sense , they both have there own budget , R&D , wants , cooling methods , system design etc etc .
The systems being close or using parts from AMD don't means they get there they same way .
The same goes for Sony if MS does something .


The NDA around X is more known to people than the NDA around Y. So if Person Z would leak NDA Y, they'd be found easier.

Correct.
Even Klee that give us some info said his source did not even want to mention the SSD or talk about it.
 
Last edited:

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
maybe oberon is 300mm2 at 7nm+. that would mean it was 360mm2 on 7nm. should line up with the bigger navi rumors.

300 mm2 means a 40 CU gpu at 251mm2, a 40 mm2 cpu and 9mm2 for everything else. maybe 9mm2 is possible on 7nm. the hd 7870 was 212mm2 and the jaguar was 70mm2 so everything else in the ps4 apu was 68mm2. a 4x reduction in node size and we are looking at 17mm2 for that everything else. maybe hbm controllers take up less space on the apu? i cant seem to get an answer for this. i do recall hearing that the vega 7 gpu was so big because of the wide hbm2 bus.

regardless, that 300mm2 calculation does not take into account any rt hardware that might take up space on the gpu. rough estimates here pegged RT hardware at 10%. so thats 25mm2. how do you fit that in the 300mm2 oberon budget?

if the 300mm2 rumor is true, it has to be on 7nm+.

No.

HBM2 and HBM2E can be stacked around the chip. In GDDR6 if you look at the PCB, memory is all over the place.


Radeon VII with HBM2, you will see gpu surrounded by HBM2 stackes on same dye.



Here's a 2080ti with GDDR6 notice you see the chip, then see memory banks farther around it not on the actual dye.



And for the record I don't think final hardware is using HBM2. I believe their devkits them have are using HBM2, but final will be using HBM2E. I believe the recent info with HBM2 chips being really cheap was because HBM2E was starting to go into mass production on top of there being demand for Radeon VII, and couple render cards with Datacenters recently being built for AI farms. WHich use HBM2 memory.
 
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