Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

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Kyoufu

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Oct 26, 2017
11,904
What’s the point of a so called ‘power crown’ when your mainstream SKU (probably selling 70-80% of units). Is a 4TF system which devs will need to target. Not to mention the cross-gen commitment for at least a year or two. Hobbled by their outdated CPU and HDD.

Having a high spec baseline SKU, whether it be 10TF, 11TF, 12TF. That’s what will allow devs to make these machines sing. And by the time they really get on top of things. We’ll be into the mid-gen upgrade cycle.
Without a disc drive I'm not sure if it'll sell 70-80% of their total volume. Also If it comes out later then to be honest I don't think it'll do as well as some people think.
 

Tonky

Member
Aug 26, 2019
6,342
That's true. Not sure HOW fast they're thinking here. :) I wonder if they'll make any of these games cross-gen though.
Making any of those games cross-gen is a bad move. Sony’s strength is in their 1st Party games, their exclusives that push the boundaries of tech. They need to be exclusive to PS5 and built from the ground-up for the new SSD, CPU etc.
 

thuway

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Oct 27, 2017
3,451
Without a disc drive I'm not sure if it'll sell 70-80% of their total volume. Also If it comes out later then to be honest I don't think it'll do as well as some people think.
Honestly, I still worry Lockhart could handicap the ambition and scope of next generation multiplatform games.
 

Flutter

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Oct 25, 2017
7,719
Speaking about Xbox, I was wondering if that the first party games coming out on PC would have a slow and fast harddrive option.

I hope they wing it, and keep it SSD only

....and release the games on Steam
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,719
Honestly, I still worry Lockhart could handicap the ambition and scope of next generation multiplatform games.
I love it, think it's a fun way to spend my vacation.

although if we get confirmation that there's no CU size changes, our only hope is an I/O die (which I think is coming anyway since there's also RT in the GPU hardware)
 

Andromeda

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Oct 27, 2017
2,574
The problem of Lockhart, at least for third party devs, will be the rumored 12GB of memory instead of 16GB (respectively 9GB and 13GB for games). You can always reduce framerate and resolution with less CPU and less GPU (assuming both will have the same features).

But if devs don't have enough ram on Lockhart compared to Anaconda then they will reduce the details in order to their game run on both machines. Sure MS first party will optimize stuff, probably, but most third party devs won't.

I believe some of them already complained specifically about the memory pool size of Lockhart.
 

jroc74

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Oct 27, 2017
7,190
The problem of Lockhart, at least for third party devs, will be the rumored 12GB of memory instead of 16GB (respectively 9GB and 13GB for games). You can always reduce framerate and resolution with less CPU and less GPU (assuming both will have the same features).

But if devs don't have enough ram on Lockhart compared to Anaconda then they will reduce the details in order to their game run on both machines. Sure MS first party will optimize stuff, probably, but most third party devs won't.

I believe some of them already complained specifically about the memory pool size of Lockhart.
This to me of the real wild card for Lockhart.

The amount of ram.
 

Martmyte

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Feb 22, 2019
680
What is item 10E?

Is that a place to hold a phone screen?

I’ve always thought that would be a pretty good idea for local streaming since they won’t be pursuing the portable market
I think that's just showing the distance between the two shoulder buttons.

I wonder if the back buttons will be part of the normal controller or if they will release their own 'elite' version.
 

NediarPT88

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Oct 29, 2017
4,083
Those patents people are posting in the last pages are from DS4.

We already saw DS5 patents (and also the physical version in those pics from the PS5 devkit).

Paddles were already a thing in DS4 patents back in the day but never made it to the final version.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,379
The World
Low key I admire the enthusiasm. This thread has been dominated by way too much cynicism and conservatism about Playstation 5. I'd rather someone dig through all the stuff and challenge these preconceived notions.

A more powerful PlayStation 5 and a strong baseline benefits the industry as a whole.
In the same vein though, a more powerful XSX with strong baseline provided by PS5 benefits the whole industry as a whole too right?
 

Flutter

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Oct 25, 2017
7,719

VinFTW

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Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Low key I admire the enthusiasm. This thread has been dominated by way too much cynicism and conservatism about Playstation 5. I'd rather someone dig through all the stuff and challenge these preconceived notions.

A more powerful PlayStation 5 and a strong baseline benefits the industry as a whole.
It’s certainly not one sided as you’re implying here.

In the same vein though, a more powerful XSX with strong baseline provided by PS5 benefits the whole industry as a whole too right?
Bingo.


Edit:
Also, are we really saying 13tfs with HBM and 5gb/s SSD is conservative?
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,737
Yes. It’s so much fun, why does it have to be this way lmao
Yeah, I just finished that game myself and couldn't help but think about next gen consoles the entire time I played it. Even aside from the numerous "shimmy through the crevice" loading zones, the game would literally just pause while I moved around so it could load the next area.

I hope a game like that can benefit from next gen consoles even without any extra patches.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
1,440
It’s certainly not one sided as you’re implying here.
The thread itself is split by nature. There are fan boys on both sides, impartial people, and those just watching it go down in flames. The drive bys that try to shit in everyone's cereal are the issue and they continue to be pretty one sided.

Do you guys forget it will be able to page the nvme ssd to use as extension to ram?
And XSX and ps5 won't? it "paging" storage isn't an advantage it would have over the better consoles.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,083
yeah same here, was annoyed that it looks like there's no DS4 paddle accessory compatibility with the DS5
Yeah DS5 appears to be thicker so the accessory most likely won't fit. Worst case scenario is Sony taking some years to make something like that for DS5, because I doubt DS4 will be compatible with PS5. I imagine they make plenty of money selling controllers.
 

i-Lo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
14,019
Not America
It is still surprising to see and Richard says he wouldn't be surprised if XSX pushes beyond 300W in gaming.

To put that in perspective Anandtech's test PC config running a Radeon VII (316W) and a 2080Ti (323W) playing Tomb Raider is a 5GHz i9900, 32GB RAM, 960GB SSD etc.

It is nuts to me the next consoles will match this level of power consumption. Not that this is a complaint you understand.
Yes, this is where I am at as well. If the TDP wattage becomes unrestrained (realistically it won't but the ceiling is raised significantly beyond 200W with appropriate cooling) then possibilities of how performant consoles can be within their constricted form factors changes drastically.

Series X, by the standards of existing design paradigm looks be 'heckin' chonker'. This, because DF have correctly nailed, is a function of assembling next gen specs without lighting up the Series X like climate change denying Australian bush fires. And that core audiences, who make up the bulk of folks who actually spend thousands of dollars in software and subscription over the lifetime of a console, cares more about performance than perhaps about their aesthetics.

Frankly, I did not buy Pro or X to show them off as art pieces. Form over function.

The only question now is where is that the wattage ceiling.
 
Dec 10, 2019
298
Only two minutes in and this is already frustrating to watch. Its good to see Richard admit he was completely off with his predictions but the signs were there from the beginning. He just chose to ignore them.

Basing your entire predictions on safe $399 and $499 Kinect consoles and then using made for profit mid gen consoles is simply bizarre. Especially after the first wired article which revealed an advanced console that simply couldn't be $399.... In bom, let alone retail cost.

At least he's admitting he got it wrong but he spent the last 8 months downplaying next gen specs when as the biggest tech journo in the industry he simply should've known better.
I hope people in here will do the same after the official spec reveal of both (or more) next gen consoles.
Sentiment seems to be Series X is the minimum we should expect. That seems like a swing in the opposite direction. From to conservative, to way to optimistic.
 

Masyer89

Member
Dec 9, 2019
23
The thread itself is split by nature. There are fan boys on both sides, impartial people, and those just watching it go down in flames. The drive bys that try to shit in everyone's cereal are the issue and they continue to be pretty one sided.


And XSX and ps5 won't? it "paging" storage isn't an advantage it would have over the better consoles.
U miss the reason for metion as in less ram on s can be rectified by paging not that xsx wouldnt have it but i havnt heard playstation talk of such a feature could be mistaken as little has been revealed.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,349
You can move people faster by games , payment plans and by shipping enough systems etc etc .
Even if the systems is $399 that don't mean people will move over faster .
It will take a bunch of factors for that to happen .
Indeed. I've come to change my position, I think Jim Ryan was referencing just that, a whole new catalogue of next gen exclusives games for the PS5, both first and third party, paired with BC and a state of the art new SKU, so people will want to get into the next gen train asap.

Can't wait for the February reveal, it's gonna be glorious!
 

thuway

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Oct 27, 2017
3,451
User Banned (3 days): Antagonising other users
Have you seen Colbert's chart? Have you seen Klobrille's drive by posts? Have you seen the over arching theory that PlayStation is consigned to 2018 technology because they foolishly started earlier? Have you read the posts (including my own) that were told a post on a Taiwan bulletin board about APU size is gospel? I can mention a million examples, but it's not about Xbox being weak. Xbox is 12 TF and is incredible for it.


Its not one sided but the skepticism and cynicism and cautionary optimism over a more powerful PS5 is BAFFLING

Also, are we really saying 13tfs with HBM and 5gb/s SSD is conservative?
Hell no this isn't conservative. Conservative is Colbert's prediction that PS5 could be 8.x TF.
 
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Tonky

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Aug 26, 2019
6,342
Are we thinking that the PS5 reveal will have the same format as the PS Meeting in 2013? I would hope so, but I could also see Sony trying something different.
 

thuway

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,451
How does that description compare to 2019’s CES?
Temper you enthusiasm. I've watched every Sony CES for the past 5 years and they are almost always about the updates to things like cameras, soundbars, televisions, etc. There is a passing mention of PlayStation and Sony pictures.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,370
Are we thinking that the PS5 reveal will have the same format as the PS Meeting in 2013? I would hope so, but I could also see Sony trying something different.
Sony as a company is wildly different than it was in 2013 from top to bottom. I would expect it to be a different format and since we actually haven't seen a legitimate PS press conference in a while, I have no idea what that looks like.
 

saintjules

Member
Dec 20, 2019
352
Are we thinking that the PS5 reveal will have the same format as the PS Meeting in 2013? I would hope so, but I could also see Sony trying something different.
I think most people are following that roadmap, but I think Sony will try something different.

Considering the use of State of Play, Wired articles, and Twitter in recent months to get their messages out, I can only assume that if they do their big presentation live, they will instead feed a video through YouTube or something of the like. Then go to E3 and make a big splash there. Price reveal, games, and maybe even a release date if we're that lucky.

No matter what they do though, everyone will know. That's the beauty of their outreach.
 

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Have you seen Colbert's chart? Have you seen Klobrille's drive by posts? Have you seen the over arching theory that PlayStation is consigned to 2018 technology because they foolishly started earlier? Have you read the posts (including my own) that were told a post on a Taiwan bulletin board about APU size is gospel? I can mention a million examples, but it's not about Xbox being weak. Xbox is 12 TF and is incredible for it.


Its not one sided but the skepticism and cynicism and cautionary optimism over a more powerful PS5 is BAFFLING


Hell no this isn't conservative. Conservative is Colbert's prediction that PS5 could be 8.x TF.
To be fair the same can be said for the reverse. Anytime anyone speculates a more powerful XSX its met with hostility and the bolded accusations above.

Regardless, people have had crazy conservative and crazy outlandish speculation but thats why I keep coming back to this thread. Its interesting and exciting.

It’s pretty much one sided...
Its not but agree to disagree
 

Justsomeguy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
704
UK
The problem of Lockhart, at least for third party devs, will be the rumored 12GB of memory instead of 16GB (respectively 9GB and 13GB for games). You can always reduce framerate and resolution with less CPU and less GPU (assuming both will have the same features).

But if devs don't have enough ram on Lockhart compared to Anaconda then they will reduce the details in order to their game run on both machines.
1080p output means lower res textures means less ram needed, I think.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,349
It is pretty one sided in that aspect, for sure.

Sony camp want 12TF, HBM2 and 5GB/s SSD, and MS camp is also talking about those features, but in the reverse fashion.

Is not happening the other way around, noone is saying Series X will be 9TF and the PS5 12TF.

The reason for that is simple, we already know most of the Series X specs. But knowing the reason doesn't change the consequences, which are obvious. One side is saying bring the HBM, the other is saying is "too hot".
 

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
It is pretty one sided in that aspect, for sure.

Sony camp want 12TF, HBM2 and 5GB/s SSD, and MS camp is also talking about those features, but in the reverse fashion.

Is not happening the other way around, noone is saying Series X will be 9TF and the PS5 12TF.

The reason for that is simple, we already know most of the Series X specs. But knowing the reason doesn't change the consequences, which are obvious. One side is saying bring the HBM, the other is saying is "too hot".
What I meant was people are arguing that the XSX is weaker in GPU, RAM and SSD and theres not much room for a good, clean conversation in a certain opposite direction
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,487
Temper you enthusiasm. I've watched every Sony CES for the past 5 years and they are almost always about the updates to things like cameras, soundbars, televisions, etc. There is a passing mention of PlayStation and Sony pictures.
I am aware, the most I am expecting is Sony mentioning again how the PS5 supports their 8K TVs.
 
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