Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

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Aug 26, 2019
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We don't know if Sony has there own solution .
There is nothing to say they are.
Some one brought up a old patent but that was also from AMD .
In fact AMD RT patent was file in 2017 which is more than enough time for Sony to know what AMD was doing .
True. I was just curious how things would work with different HW RT implementations. Those 3rd Party games will also need RT on PC for NVIDIA cards too.
 

Matt

The Terror that Flaps in the Night
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Oct 24, 2017
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When you start accusing public figures of bold-faced lies, it’s time to take a step back and reevaluate your approach to this conversation.
 

AegonSnake

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Oct 25, 2017
7,040
They also have opened three new studios (Pixelopus, the new Manchester Studio and the new team created for Uncharted), have helped Kojima Production to start and produce its first game, have allowed their first party studios to grow significantly, have invested a lot of money for VR support...

I mostly agree with you. I think Sony should have more first party studios. But you can't say they didn't invest in exclusives during this generation.
the kojipro announcement was a dream come true for me. literally, ive dreamed about kojima making ps4 exclusives lol. death stranding was a masterpiece and i hope to see sony invest more into these studios.

ive been hearing a lot about this uncharted studio. i hope to see a game from them. not sure why sony hasnt even announced it or given it a name. whats the manchester studio working on? vr?

also, i didnt say sony isnt investing in exclusives. ;p i was comparing their output to last gen which was utterly stacked from year 1. i wouldve expected them to continue putting out those 4-5 aaa games a year but the opposite happened. days gone and death stranding are two of my favorite games of the year so i cant complain too much, but i miss the years when we got uncharted, killzone, infamous, motorstorm, socom, resistance and lbp in the same year. (2011 look it up, absolutely mental)
 

RingRang

Member
Oct 2, 2019
1,368
What an odd couple of days. I know we're extrapolating potential PS5 specs from tiny tidbits and things don't add up right now, but but the recent PS5 info has put me on a downer. I'm platform agnostic, but this is the first gen where I didn't pick up an MS box because both the hardware and software went in a different direction to what I enjoy, whilst Sony doubled down on what I love in console gaming. If MS has the better box and Halo: Infinite manages to encapsulate the best of the genre then I'll pick it up at launch, but will be sad Sony won't be at the forefront of my path onto the next gen.
I believe it's very likely the hardware differences next gen are going to be less noticeable than they were this gen. A 10tf vs 12tf difference between the new consoles is going to translate into barely distinguishable differences. Especially when the less powerful box is the higher selling one.
 

amstradcpc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
343
So why use to say that as a way for Sony to have hardware RT when we know it's in the GPU.
well, the id-buffer was in the GPU, the Sony chip could have a RT coprocessor from IMG tech inside the GPU chip and Cernys wording sounded deliberately ambiguous enough to fit this, but on the other hand this patent proofs nothing. I wish in fact it had a power vr wizard inside, as is the best RT hardware out there by far.
 

PrimeRib

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Nov 16, 2017
162
also, i didnt say sony isnt investing in exclusives. ;p i was comparing their output to last gen which was utterly stacked from year 1. i wouldve expected them to continue putting out those 4-5 aaa games a year but the opposite happened. days gone and death stranding are two of my favorite games of the year so i cant complain too much, but i miss the years when we got uncharted, killzone, infamous, motorstorm, socom, resistance and lbp in the same year. (2011 look it up, absolutely mental)
I'd say it's a testament to development cycles increasing and the standards they expect out of first-party games. There were a fair bit of delays on some games that just weren't ready, which to be fair, I think most appreciate more than releasing titles on a schedule.
 

Primethius

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Oct 25, 2017
8,547
So that would mean Lockhart is like 3TF? Why would they be using such a huge form factor for around 9TF? Also the 8x number works much better for 12TF if you do 8.5 x 1.4 using Xbox 1s numbers you get around 12TF.
Lockhart is 4TF. It's primarily a 1080/1440p box with an SSD and a much stronger CPU. It doesn't need to be significantly stronger for its purpose.
 

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,243
Florida
Turns out Cerny who has 30-40yrs in the industry, is a computer engineer/programmer, and learned to speak fluent Japanese to better position himself in an industry that he loves isn't that smart after all.

Wow. Thanks guys.
 

Dust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,706
When you start accusing public figures of bold-faced lies, it’s time to take a step back and reevaluate your approach to this conversation.
It’s more like this thread is past sanity without details at this point, speculation is just ground for wishful thinking console wars.
 

BiTheWay

Member
May 24, 2019
261
Look, I understand not trusting Klee, even I don’t agree with it. That being said, doubting Matt, Tom Warren and Jason Mothersneakfucking Schreier is not a good idea.
 

doncabesa

Member
Jun 27, 2018
1,015
When you start accusing public figures of bold-faced lies, it’s time to take a step back and reevaluate your approach to this conversation.
You need to clarify what this is in relation to. Because everyone is going to assume you mean Cerny, and you should clarify if it is him or Phil. No one is saying Cerny is lying about HW RT, just that it doesn't appear to be using AMD's solution.
 

Cyborg

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,626
Turns out Cerny who has 30-40yrs in the industry, is a computer engineer/programmer, and learned to speak fluent Japanese to better position himself in an industry that he loves isn't that smart after all.

Wow. Thanks guys.
Some people just know better! Saying Cerny lies is just incompetence on their side.

That being said, even great minds make mistakes. And if this “leaks” becomes true I think its a disappointment considering the output of the competition.
 

Godzilla24

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Nov 12, 2017
2,491
You need to clarify what this is in relation to. Because everyone is going to assume you mean Cerny, and you should clarify if it is him or Phil. No one is saying Cerny is lying about HW RT, just that it doesn't appear to be using AMD's solution.
Maybe PS5 hardware RT is some offshoot implementation like Ps4 pro checkerboard 4k. Nothing wrong with that.
 

gundamkyoukai

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Oct 25, 2017
7,756
well, the id-buffer was in the GPU, the Sony chip could have a RT coprocessor from IMG tech inside the GPU chip and Cernys wording sounded ambiguous enough to fit this, but on the other hand this patent proofs nothing. I wish in fact it had a power vr wizard inside, as is the best RT hardware out there by far.
Reading the stuff about XSX you can say the same for them .
Both just said hardware RT so i guess that is why i don't find it ambiguous.
 

Brohan

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
647
Netherlands

Spinluck

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,243
Florida
Some people just know better! Saying Cerny lies is just incompetence on their side.

That being said, even great minds make mistakes. And if this “leaks” becomes true I think its a disappointment considering the output of the competition.
I can agree with this.

I buy Sony or MS for different reasons than I buy Nintendo stuff or PC titles.

I'd love them to be as close as possible as well.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,720
Yesss, I knew it! It also explains the DS4 button attachment and why they bothered to release it so late. It's to make the DS4 compatible with the PS5.

This is a gamechanger for me personally. I wonder if first party devs are going to make more input intensive games now that everyone has those extra buttons.
dont be so sure yet. They've patented a lot of stuff, that we cant be sure if it will be in the final controller.

Although yes, I'd love it too.
 

Rumpestump

Member
Dec 8, 2018
718
The numbers are 6 and 12, to the average consumer that is twice as much. Breaking down GCN vs RDNA is something for tech heads. It's basic marketing, keep it simple. They pushed the 6 tflops number before, the new system is 12 so they say "twice as powerful" because the mass market will understand that.
I would say the mass market would understand two times the performance of XbX which is double that and not teraflops which they also never mentioned and why not do that if you know what they are.

I bet most people here know the difference in performance when it comes to rDNA and GCN but this is an enthusiast forum in an enthusiast thread about hardware.

9.6 teraflops is not double the teraflops of 6 but in this case (rDNA vs GCN) the performance would be. So what do you choose if you want to sell your machine if it is not 12 rDNA flops. Twice the performance sound a lot better than 60% more teraflops.

And marketing is not about keeping it simple it’s about selling a product making it sound as good as humanly possible any way you can and saying two times stronger instead of two and a half if that is the case certainly is not that.

Once again I certainly don’t want this to be true but how they are marketing this and selling a product short so to speak is strange to me at least.
 

senjutsusage

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
274
Which public figures are we talking about? Albert Penello? Phil Spencer? Larry Hyrb? Frank O'Conner? There seems to be many accusations of Xbox execs, past and present, being liars or not knowing what they're talking about on boards like this all the time with no offense taken by very many, but now when someone points out that something seems off and non-committal regarding PS5's ray tracing support with respect to recent information we've received, people suddenly have a moral objection to not taking what an executive says at face value? Do we still remember the way Albert Penello was insulted for stating that Microsoft's expertise with DirectX is important?

Hell, Phil Spencer has all but confirmed 12TF RDNA minimum for Xbox Series X in more ways than one, and so many in here continue to state that he's misleading about GCN flops and can't possibly mean RDNA flops. How's that for a double standard?
 

doncabesa

Member
Jun 27, 2018
1,015
Please quote me posts where people said "Cerny is lying!" please, because the majority of the conversation I was a part of was more surprised that Sony is possibly not using AMD's ray-tracing solution.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,601
I'd be very happy with 2 buttons on the back of the DS5 to match the DS4 attachment. So when playing PS5 games you can use all the normal buttons PLUS the 2 rear buttons instead of having them just be remapped buttons like on the PS4. And when you're using your DS4 on the PS5 you can utilize the attachment accessory to achieve the same effect.

I can understand some may want 4 buttons on the back, but I don't know if that's really needed for the mainline controller. If Sony decides to make their own Pro controller or continue to license that out to other companies those should have the 4 button options.
 

Chaostar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
80
I remember people talking about GDDR5 being impossible for PS4. It was too expensive, unnecessary, unrealistic, etc. Then we got...



There's no reason to doubt Cerny again, I'm jumping on board the HBM train! No regrets.
 

Toumari

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,501
England
Something else of note with that patent, is that the 2 bottom buttons allow for the grip length to be adjusted:
Sony Interactive Entertainment filed a utility patent (meaning the final design can differ) in Japan for a PlayStation game controller with four extra buttons on the back: two small movable buttons (can be moved up and down) and two press buttons. The smaller buttons are combined with two buttons on the bottom of the controller. With the movable buttons a user can extend the length of the grip portion to their wishes. In addition, the press buttons can improve the operability of a game character.
Also "utility patent" suggests that even though its on the DS4 design, it could be used on the DS5.
 
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