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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)

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goonergaz

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,300
If Sony is sandwiched between a cheaper next-gen console that will appeal to mainstream audiences and a more powerful console that appeals to hardcore audiences, they’re going to have a rough next eight years.
Ever wondered why the mid tier companies do so well? Best bang for buck.

Also, brand and BC will be important next gen.
 

ElNerdo

Member
Oct 22, 2018
437
So Lockhart should be more powerful than the XB1X, right? That's usually selling for between $350-$499 new, depending on where you look. Wouldn't that mean that Lockhart should cost more?
 

THE_W1TCHER

Member
Oct 28, 2017
37
If the leak is true do you think it would be possible that Microsoft used a realy low clock like 1.2ghz for their earlier target and everybody compared it to ps5 and concluded that yeah they are pretty much the same with ps5 having an slight edge. Those targets would perform better than stadia nonetheless. To continue my fan fiction this would be around the time Lockhart was reported not in the plans anymore so Microsoft's strategy would be using a more laxed cooling solution and matching the price of ps5 but letting the door open for clocking higher and back to the sandwich strategy. So here we are now with a rumored 12tf series x and a resurfaced Lockhart.
 

Klaw

Member
Nov 16, 2017
195
France
The thing with the Github rumour is that it comes across as very convincing since its almost certainly real and related to the PS5 on some level, and claims about it likely being an early devkit chip can easily sound like "fanboys not wanting to accept the truth". I'd believe the leak myself if it didn't directly conflict with the trusted insider word we've gotten from Klee, Reiner and Moriarty (as well as Matt and Jason to a lesser degree) - but it very, very much does. The only way it makes any sense is if either they or their dev sources were all lying.
Or the devkits sent by MS were really not ready, and they "surprised" everyone like someone said. I don't believe it happened that way thought, or MS will have a hard time being ready for a holiday 2020 launch.
 

Seshumaru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
588
The Netherlands
Richard from Digital Foundry. He is god.
I've been a bit out of the loop but I'm going to guess DF created a article/video about the github leak?

For me, all of this doesn't add up. Information from official articles and insiders are all opposite of the github leak. From 10+ TF, to stronger than stadia, to power difference being close and no a 3TF difference is not close and especially not if the XSX also has a higher (rumored) clocked CPU, to Cerny saying that the PS5 has RT in the GPU, to finally Sony coming out that they are making the PS5 for the hardcore. A 9.2TF system is not for the hardcore it's for the casuals. And yes we do have Jim Ryan coming out and saying they want to transition players faster than current gen but keep in mind there are several ways to accomplish that.

So if we look at it from a logical point of view the github leak does not seem to tell the whole story, just perhaps part of it.
 
Dec 27, 2019
205
a mainstream tech reviewer drew a line in the sand and analysed the GitHub repo. Richard and his colleagues are more technical than most here, they know their stuff..

Now that the reviews are getting traction, if the news is too negative/positive for either sony/microsoft then they may be forced to comment..

Either way he summed up what's taken 100+ pages on here ...
I think Sony might have already responded with the “lies“ tweet.
 
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BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
3,531
Wow, this thread was made on Dec 13 and it's already done.
We're just warming up I feel. We'll need next-gens SSDs for the forum servers just to keep up.

time to make a bet here,
will we finish the next OT before the PS5 meeting invite ;p
This thread was done in 2 weeks so it is a safe bet. If we get any sort of tease from CES then probably even faster. Assuming the invites go out at the end of January as last time.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
4,589
Or the devkits sent by MS were really not ready, and they "surprised" everyone like someone said. I don't believe it happened that way thought, or MS will have a hard time being ready for a holiday 2020 launch.
By my memory, the insider word (from Klee and Reiner at least) was explicitly about the target specs provided to devs to build the games around, not devkit specs. When the Series X was announced and we got the very credible word that the GPU was 12TF RDNA, Klee was asked outright if this was a jump from what he'd been informed of, and he said "nothing has changed", so it's clearly that this was the double-digit number he'd been referring to that the PS5 is supposedly a bit above. So we're just back to "the only way the Github leak is really the PS5 is if Klee or his friend was lying". Which certain people are no doubt eager to believe, but that doesn't make it likely.
 

Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,790
I honestly think most pspro and one x sales were to the cod type crowd

Everybody has big 4k TVs now
No, everyone doesn't have 4K TVs now. Just because 4K TVs are on the market, that doesn't mean everyone's existing 1080p TVs disappear or break all at once. Most people wait until their existing sets break before looking to buy again. This has been explained to you before but you choose to ignore it. Anecdotally, of all my gaming friends in person, which is about a dozen people or so, only 2 other people have upgraded to 4K TVs and these are "hardcore" gamers. That average would be far less if they fit more in the casual audience. If MS is going with a 2SKU strategy, it makes no sense for both to target 4K gaming.

So XSX has no redundancy?

Either way it's still significantly more die real estate and therefore cost.
I've been wondering the same thing.
 

Papacheeks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,531
Watertown, NY
I've been a bit out of the loop but I'm going to guess DF created a article/video about the github leak?

For me, all of this doesn't add up. Information from official articles and insiders are all opposite of the github leak. From 10+ TF, to stronger than stadia, to power difference being close and no a 3TF difference is not close and especially not if the XSX also has a higher (rumored) clocked CPU, to Cerny saying that the PS5 has RT in the GPU, to finally Sony coming out that they are making the PS5 for the hardcore. A 9.2TF system is not for the hardcore it's for the casuals. And yes we do have Jim Ryan coming out and saying they want to transition players faster than current gen but keep in mind there are several ways to accomplish that.

So if we look at it from a logical point of view the github leak does not seem to tell the whole story, just perhaps part of it.
Being stronger than stadia doesn't have to mean 10tf+. Teraflops are not the be all for a enclosed system. Sometimes it's other thing's, like the type of storage that they have to instantly load a game. Something that even PC doesn't have yet.

Stronger than Stadia could mean in literally the experience being better. From local rendered image, load times, just overall experience being better. Now do I think 9tf+ is the final number? No, but do I think it's possibly a target? To get close to 10tf without needing giant clocks to achieve it. Yes.

I'll be surprised if the system is priced closer to MS's 12tf console.

I mean if it is 12tf, then I guess everyone wins but our wallets.

But honestly Sony's messaging has never been about being the most powerful. Their design decisions have always been about best priced hardware, that will empower their developers to transition quickly and develop with enough horse power.

This. I’ve been thinking for a while now that they want people to be able to afford both consoles.
Yea, honestly why change a strat that currently has worked for them? Makes sense to offer a box at $399 at launch that's 8+-9tf. Then have PS5PRO in 2-3 years that's around 12-14tf for $499 or higher. Makes sense to me, too much sense.

And honestly I think the bread crumbs of them not having PSVR2 at launch kind of goes along with that. I would imagine the render resolution for the new VR headset would work with 9tf but would benefit from something around 12tf+.
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,464
I mean, assuming that this run of next-gen speculation will have another twist is possibly the safest bet in the histories of man and beast.
The twist will be that folks who are expecting a power gap of what essentially amounts to the PS4 Pro in GPU terms for two consoles launching in the same year are going to look mighty foolish.

Logic and reasoning be damned. It's all about riding the clouds.
 

DrKeo

Member
Mar 3, 2019
1,437
Israel
I must be missing something, so excuse me if I am - but why would speed increase die size?

And from memory that was a last minute tweak rather than an engineered design.

I think you've misread something, speed increases cost, not size :)

Another crazy thread goes to well-deserved rest.

I predict OT9 will be even more wild. :D
"All of this has happened before and will happen again - so say we all".
 

Seshumaru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
588
The Netherlands
Very well, sorry about that.
It's fine and I'm sorry if i came over as harsh but some people just remove context to fit a narrative.

Let's be honest if 2 years agao we would have a discussion that the PS5 is going to come out for 399 would your first instinct be that it is for the hardcore? Even if you look at the beginning of the year we wouldn't classify it as a hardcore system.
 

BitsandBytes

Member
Dec 16, 2017
3,531
PS Meeting gonna crash Era,huh? ;)
I've already seen the odd hiccup in this thread the last week. It will crash when official stuff starts to drop.

My alias is Jon Snow.
It is a given there will be another twist!
It is a given that you and me will love it for the shits and giggles!
*wipes brow* Yeah for sure more twists.

I mean, assuming that this run of next-gen speculation will have another twist is possibly the safest bet in the histories of man and beast.
Well yeah I agree, it was just how it was phrased threw me. I admit I'm really sensitive to wording right now and easily trigger.....:(

Of course it is obvious they'll be twists as I said it! ;)
 

Snakeeee

Member
Jan 20, 2019
3,132
Well, im ready for more twists, it cant get worst then this.

Why do i fell that im about to regret this coment.
 

VX1

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,923
Europe
It's fine and I'm sorry if i came over as harsh but some people just remove context to fit a narrative.

Let's be honest if 2 years agao we would have a discussion that the PS5 is going to come out for 399 would your first instinct be that it is for the hardcore? Even if you look at the beginning of the year we wouldn't classify it as a hardcore system.
No prob. Well,the question is what PS system was for the hardcore? Their most successful console PS2 was weaker then both Xbox and GameCube.PS3? It was the latest tech,yeah,mighty and shiny but it was a financial disaster for Sony,it made billions of losses.I think they learned their lesson.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
4,589
Finally someone understands the lines between the lines!
But what about the lines between those lines?

Well yeah I agree, it was just how it was phrased threw me. I admit I'm really sensitive to wording right now and easily trigger.....:(

Of course it is obvious they'll be twists as I said it! ;)
Oh, trust me, I know the feeling, like I'm seeing clues everywhere. That PlayStation tweet is the perfect example. We're all in a permanent state of
 

Seshumaru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
588
The Netherlands
Being stronger than stadia doesn't have to mean 10tf+. Teraflops are not the be all for a enclosed system. Sometimes it's other thing's, like the type of storage that they have to instantly load a game. Something that even PC doesn't have yet.

Stronger than Stadia could mean in literally the experience being better. From local rendered image, load times, just overall experience being better. Now do I think 9tf+ is the final number? No, but do I think it's possibly a target? To get close to 10tf without needing giant clocks to achieve it. Yes.

I'll be surprised if the system is priced closer to MS's 12tf console.

I mean if it is 12tf, then I guess everyone wins but our wallets.

But honestly Sony's messaging has never been about being the most powerful. Their design decisions have always been about best priced hardware, that will empower their developers to transition quickly and develop with enough horse power.



Yea, honestly why change a strat that currently has worked for them? Makes sense to offer a box at $399 at launch that's 8+-9tf. Then have PS5PRO in 2-3 years that's around 12-14tf for $499 or higher. Makes sense to me, too much sense.

And honestly I think the bread crumbs of them not having PSVR2 at launch kind of goes along with that. I would imagine the render resolution for the new VR headset would work with 9tf but would benefit from something around 12tf+.
Couple of things first the 10tf+ whas about flops so why all of a sudden would it be about SSD speeds?

But Sony's messaging has been about developing the PS5 for the hardcore and the price will reflect that. Second i wasn't talking about in comparison to XSX. It doesn't need to be 12tf to be for the hardcore? For me a 9.2tf 399 system is more of a casual/normal system not a hardcore system were they went beyond the expected.

PS5 PRo in 2/3 years as the same spec as the XSX is crazy....than they should at least go 15+ otherwise it's going to be seen as strange by the hardcore.
 
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