The PS4 and XB1 were close in performance and that didn't stop anything lolI really want both consoles to be close in performance so maybe much of the bickering will die down.
The PS4 and XB1 were close in performance and that didn't stop anything lolI really want both consoles to be close in performance so maybe much of the bickering will die down.
You missed my point. They won't invest more just because they can't offer exclusive. It's more reasonable to invest more for Sony because they make more money in this business than MS. But expect the Xbox will be more powerful because they can only bet on it, it's not a perfect math. That's why I will not be exactly shocked if in the end Sony will invest more than MS, in the next gen.Because MS still can't compete on exclusive games and being the best console to play third party games on is something that might convince some people to go with them. They certainly don't expect that'll be enough to grant them the first place, but having a Playstation that has higher quality exclusives and plays all the other games better hurts them a lot.
Most reliable sources are saying that is the case, it's up to you to choose if you want to believe their info.I really want both consoles to be close in performance so maybe much of the bickering will die down.
kind of.
Are you just automatically assuming how good the games will be for the entirety of next generation lol?
If Sony is making a 36cu part with no next gen features, it's a PS4 revision and maybe can boost to 2ghz in amd testing.
my god that first gif looks stunning.I've been wondering this myself. But after seeing the Everwild trailer, I'm hopeful. The "cape" here looks like it's moving dynamically:
Also, keep in mind that sports games already have legit cloth physics.
I don't want to drag this out, but to me it's inappropriate to post people's tweets and try to get them in trouble in the thread.
I shouldn't have said it was pathetic of you to do so, though. That was too much, and I apologize.
I was just playing some Madden. It's not terrible from a graphics point of view, but certainly not the best either. My main issue is with the animations, where characters still move like this:my god that first gif looks stunning.
and nba2k is the only sports games pushing those visuals. mlb the show looks pretty meh and madden looks like its a ps2 hd remaster.
It happened with Turn 10, Bungie, The Coalition. Same thing happened as pertains to their partnership with Playground.No, only for its first few years, unless MS already has stuff to match TLOU, GOT, Horizon, God of War, Spiderman and so on.
You can't expect all the new studios they recently bought to be able to squeeze out AAA masterpieces from day one.
Yall think we'll get actual cloth simulation next gen?
Some games like Uncharted or RDR2 have animation for cloth folds when running and such but nothing near actual cloth simulation.
We'd need official specs to make a better guess at what they can get away with.
With all due respect, I will say what I want on my twitter. is it really that extreme to you?
You missed my point. They won't invest more just because they can't offer exclusive. It's more reasonable to invest more for Sony because they make more money in this business than MS. But expect the Xbox will be more powerful because they can only bet on it, it's not a perfect math. That's why I'm not exactly shocked if in the end ps5 is more powerful.
We've got dynamic capes in Anthem and stuff. Look at how stiff that characters pants are.I've been wondering this myself. But after seeing the Everwild trailer, I'm hopeful. The "cape" here looks like it's moving dynamically:
Also, keep in mind that sports games already have legit cloth physics.
APUS, CPUs, GPUs in consoles are typically taped out 18-24 months in advanced. I am really skeptical of last "year" changes to the silicon unless its clocks or bug fixes.
All the steppings you see are the spins.
Albert Penello and anexanhume can correct me if I am wrong.
This is very important for everybody here to keep in mind, thank you Albert.Basically, at this point the consoles that are shipping are the ones that both companies have been planning to ship for at least a year, unless they delay the launch (and eat a ton of sunk costs) or had build in the ability to react to any bumps in performance in advance.
Man, it's hard keeping up with the thread, especially during a vacation.
I agree, there are a lot of "porting down" going on. Most developers will tell you that developing for the most powerful machine and then porting down will result in a better looking game for both the most powerful machine and the weaker one as well.
I doubt developers will want to lead on Lockheart. Usually the lead platform is chosen because the developer has some marketing deal with the platform holder, the platform is the most popular so the publisher wants it to lead or it's the most powerful which makes developers excited to develop on. But Lockheart? It's not going to be any of these options. Games will probably be made for PS5, Anaconda or PC first, depends on power difference, popularity and publisher deals.
Its definitley a possibility that sony needed the earliest navi version possible to test and code all the relevant bc features. Hence the gen0,gen1 and gen2 modes and gfx10xx id's.So in the thread about PS5 being easy to work on this article from October on how the PS5 backwards compatibility not ready yet was also posted.
this made me wonder since this is far later than June/July
Is it possible that the tests and data of Oberon we recently got from _rogame is a "devkit" or for BC or perhaps the results are from a machine based on parts of Oberone but without hardware found in the "real" Oberon or PS5 devkit.
This is probably completely my mind just spinning from staying in this thread so long but it seems whenever we gotten leaks of Oberon it's also included the clock speed of older consoles with it like this for example
http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-5-gpu-specs-leak-2ghz-backwards-compatibility-mode/
We then have people in here translating from some Taiwanese (Chinese?) forum how Oberon is "behind" and perhaps won't make it to holidays 2020 which also would fit very well into the article about BC being behind and perhaps not making it to release. The important thing however is they still claim PS5 will.
Once again this surely is my mind making connections that are completely wrong but if anyone with a bit of sanity left could point out how this can't be the case then by all means plz do that.
Are you surprised about the rumored 12TF Series X target specs?
I would define "tapeout" as the ready-to-manufacture silicon. This would be final production ready silicon that is ready to mass-produce in volumes.
That generally happens very shortly before launch - typically less than a year. In fact, Scorpio tapeout IIRC happened in March 2017. Bringup (or the first piece of manufactured silicon that can be put in prototype boxes) came in December 2016 (so about a little less than a year before launch).
Phil has tweeted that they had takehome units shortly before Christmas, which by my estimation would mean they are past bringup, but prior to tapeout, but actually ahead of schedule relative to Scorpio which was a pretty smooth process. So I would say things seem to be going well.
Highly unlikely that any changes would be able to be done with either console at this point, unless two things are true.
1. The exterior case and cooling design can handle whatever increases they would like to implement (could be CU's, could be clock speed but either way it's more heat)
2. They are seeing much better yields than anticipated and can meet their launch volume targets and long-term cost reduction goals.
Basically, at this point the consoles that are shipping are the ones that both companies have been planning to ship for at least a year, unless they delay the launch (and eat a ton of sunk costs) or had build in the ability to react to any bumps in performance in advance.
This is going to be one hell of a riddle to solve in the next two months.kind of.
oberon is too small to be a 40 cu part with a zen 2 cpu, hardware rt and i/o stuff. there is an amd patent out there that suggests a separate chip that contains the i/o stuff and hardware rt cores. so even if oberon is a lame 36 cu part, the hardware rt having dedicated cores could be good news.
maybe.
most likely not.
Hope you're aware that you're doing the same exact thing with those posts here.Nope. You can say what you want on your twitter profile, but it's a dick move when you obviously wrote some sadly posts here, got some sort of warning from mods ( Matt in this case ) and then later make a tweet referred to this board and trying to be some kind of drama queen and get some attention there. I've read numerous examples on twitter
Nah. This just confirms our worst fears about Sony targeting a $399 box for casuals. Then they found themselves beaten by a 50% more powerful gpu and simply upped the clocks to get a lousy tflop to close the gap. Sounds a lot like what ms did with the x1 gpu clock upgrade to get them from 1.2 to 1.3 tflops doesn't it.
Of course, this is all assuming if this is true. I am still not sure if it is. We are missing something but i just don't know what. It simply doesn't line up with what journalists have heard.
With all due respect, I will say what I want on my twitter. is it really that extreme to you? In my view, we've already come to an understanding of what I should do going forward if I disagree with something I see and what the procedure is instead of just complaining about it after the fact. That said, the rest of my tweet isn't so much drama as common sense. Instead of flipping the hell out over the information, let's just chalk it up to it maybe being outdated and PS5 has since undergone a revision, but I'm not so willing to just dismiss it out of hand when it comes from official AMD data, especially when the damn thing has PS4 and PS4 Pro backwards compatibility modes built in. I mean really? So, yea, that's all I have to say on that.
I've also said from my twitter since way early in the year that I felt the sweet spot for these consoles was somewhere in the 12-14 TF range, with me praying for 13, but where 14 would be a fucking dream. 12 is right at the baseline of where I thought we should be. Xbox Series X appears likely to be at that mark, and I would like for PS5 to be there also. If it isn't, it won't change anything for me other than I'll be disappointed wondering what could have been, but I know for a fact sony's first party will still kick ass all the same. That system even at 9.2TF is no joke. It's a massive enhancement over ps4 and ps4 pro.
Nope. You can say what you want or your tweeter profile, but it's a dick move when you obviously wrote some sadly posts here, got some sort of warning from mods ( Matt in this case ) and then later make a tweet referred to this board and trying to be some kind of drama queen and get some attention there.
I would define "tapeout" as the ready-to-manufacture silicon. This would be final production ready silicon that is ready to mass-produce in volumes.
That generally happens very shortly before launch - typically less than a year. In fact, Scorpio tapeout IIRC happened in March 2017. Bringup (or the first piece of manufactured silicon that can be put in prototype boxes) came in December 2016 (so about a little less than a year before launch).
Phil has tweeted that they had takehome units shortly before Christmas, which by my estimation would mean they are past bringup, but prior to tapeout, but actually ahead of schedule relative to Scorpio which was a pretty smooth process. So I would say things seem to be going well.
Highly unlikely that any changes would be able to be done with either console at this point, unless two things are true.
1. The exterior case and cooling design can handle whatever increases they would like to implement (could be CU's, could be clock speed but either way it's more heat)
2. They are seeing much better yields than anticipated and can meet their launch volume targets and long-term cost reduction goals.
Basically, at this point the consoles that are shipping are the ones that both companies have been planning to ship for at least a year, unless they delay the launch (and eat a ton of sunk costs) or had build in the ability to react to any bumps in performance in advance.
Hope you're aware that you're doing the same exact thing with those posts here.
no, it doesn't. Maybe the [email protected] is a boost mode for PS4pro backward compatibility. The native Oberon mode should be more than 36CU.This 36CUs leak speaks of a small die to me.
Last rumours mentioned there would be a "big navi" die that would be used by both Sony and Microsoft in their next-gen consoles. Doesn't really add to this rumour, does it?
The problem is that you seem to be more willing to accept data mines from chips that may have nothing to do with the final product over a statement made by the chief architect of PS5 confirming HW RT in the GPU.
I'm the opposite. Sony has made a clear statement, if the chips found don't jive with that statement then clearly there's more to the story we don't know about and those chips may not be in the final system
The problem is that you seem to be more willing to accept data mines from chips that may have nothing to do with the final product over a statement made by the chief architect of PS5 confirming HW RT in the GPU.
I'm the opposite. Sony has made a clear statement, if the chips found don't jive with that statement then clearly there's more to the story we don't know about and those chips may not be in the final system
no, it doesn't. Maybe the [email protected] is a boost mode for PS4pro backward compatibility. The native Oberon mode should be more than 36CU.
Good to see this is thread marked already!I would define "tapeout" as the ready-to-manufacture silicon. This would be final production ready silicon that is ready to mass-produce in volumes.
That generally happens very shortly before launch - typically less than a year. In fact, Scorpio tapeout IIRC happened in March 2017. Bringup (or the first piece of manufactured silicon that can be put in prototype boxes) came in December 2016 (so about a little less than a year before launch).
Phil has tweeted that they had takehome units shortly before Christmas, which by my estimation would mean they are past bringup, but prior to tapeout, but actually ahead of schedule relative to Scorpio which was a pretty smooth process. So I would say things seem to be going well.
Highly unlikely that any changes would be able to be done with either console at this point, unless two things are true.
1. The exterior case and cooling design can handle whatever increases they would like to implement (could be CU's, could be clock speed but either way it's more heat)
2. They are seeing much better yields than anticipated and can meet their launch volume targets and long-term cost reduction goals.
Basically, at this point the consoles that are shipping are the ones that both companies have been planning to ship for at least a year, unless they delay the launch (and eat a ton of sunk costs) or had build in the ability to react to any bumps in performance in advance.
The crazy thing is that the last 20-30 pages boils down to this statement. Then sangreal took the time to actually investigate and found out it was internal testing documents that had no relevance to the topic at hand and people just conveniently skipped over it. Nothing that Rogame posted on Twitter linesup with anything said by Sony or by insiders up to this point especially with Cerny's insistence that the console is going to be priced according to its power basically. That doesn't sound like a 9TF system.
As has been said, information is shared before kits are released, and kits are updated several times before they are finalized.
The targets for these systems are shared early, because developers need to know what to aim for.
I feel like a lot a people in these threads are reading radically different things from "sources" who are generally all saying the same things.
I really want it to be in the new controller. I think that would actually work fairly well as it's distances is away from the handles so to prevent accidentally hitting it as you have to extend the fingers. It's actually one of the gripes I have with the XBX where sometimes, when you don't want to use it, the way it's placed and designed can accidentally hit it so you have to remove it every time which is easy but feels a bit less elegant in a way.
That's pretty good summary. There's just too many things pointing towards RT especially after confirmation that it makes absolutely no sense to put more value into a single datamine and then finding ways to explain why it may not have RT as it's far more complicated which is completely illogical.lol, you're really reaching there bud and it's not a good look to be honest.
1. Cerny confirmed hardware raytracing built into the GPU. If you believe otherwise you're calling him a liar
2. Insiders like Matt and Klee have confirmed RT hardware
3. Godfall shows evidence of RT based on the small GIF we've got and the in-engine teaser
4. Other Sony devs like Polyphony have been working on RT for years now. It makes absolutely no sense for them to be doing that if there's no hardware that will support it.
5. After the first Wired article a Naughty Dog dev proclaimed it was hardware raytracing on Twitter before having to quickly walk that statement back because that was not information Sony had publicly discussed yet. If any team at Sony knows about the PS5's capability it's Naughty Dog.
That's just a few points off the top of my head, I'm sure there are plenty more pieces of evidence that others could cite. So yeah, it's got hardware RT.
Has Matt said he disagreed with the 9.2tf vs 12tf?