The PS4 and XB1 were close in performance and that didn't stop anything lol
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Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - The Dark Tower (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Mecha Meister
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With all due respect, I will say what I want on my twitter. is it really that extreme to you? In my view, we've already come to an understanding of what I should do going forward if I disagree with something I see and what the procedure is instead of just complaining about it after the fact. That said, the rest of my tweet isn't so much drama as common sense. Instead of flipping the hell out over the information, let's just chalk it up to it maybe being outdated and PS5 has since undergone a revision, but I'm not so willing to just dismiss it out of hand when it comes from official AMD data, especially when the damn thing has PS4 and PS4 Pro backwards compatibility modes built in. I mean really? So, yea, that's all I have to say on that.
I've also said from my twitter since way early in the year that I felt the sweet spot for these consoles was somewhere in the 12-14 TF range, with me praying for 13, but where 14 would be a fucking dream. 12 is right at the baseline of where I thought we should be. Xbox Series X appears likely to be at that mark, and I would like for PS5 to be there also. If it isn't, it won't change anything for me other than I'll be disappointed wondering what could have been, but I know for a fact sony's first party will still kick ass all the same. That system even at 9.2TF is no joke. It's a massive enhancement over ps4 and ps4 pro.
You missed my point. They won't invest more just because they can't offer exclusive. It's more reasonable to invest more for Sony because they make more money in this business than MS. But expect the Xbox will be more powerful because they can only bet on it, it's not a perfect math. That's why I will not be exactly shocked if in the end Sony will invest more than MS, in the next gen.
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Most reliable sources are saying that is the case, it's up to you to choose if you want to believe their info.
kind of.
oberon is too small to be a 40 cu part with a zen 2 cpu, hardware rt and i/o stuff. there is an amd patent out there that suggests a separate chip that contains the i/o stuff and hardware rt cores. so even if oberon is a lame 36 cu part, the hardware rt having dedicated cores could be good news.
maybe.
most likely not.
No, only for its first few years, unless MS already has stuff to match TLOU, GOT, Horizon, God of War, Spiderman and so on.
You can't expect all the new studios they recently bought to be able to squeeze out AAA masterpieces from day one.
If this were the case why would a PS4 revision be navi10? Doesn't make sense to me...(like most of the info 😬)
my god that first gif looks stunning.I've been wondering this myself. But after seeing the Everwild trailer, I'm hopeful. The "cape" here looks like it's moving dynamically:
Also, keep in mind that sports games already have legit cloth physics.
and nba2k is the only sports games pushing those visuals. mlb the show looks pretty meh and madden looks like its a ps2 hd remaster.
I see. Fair enough. But people are responsible for their own actions on ERA or on Twitter, even if some tweets are referred to this forum.
I don't believe the data mine. It doesn't add up and I trust Schreier and other insiders more than any leaks. I believe that PS5 and XBOX are similar in specs.
So in the thread about PS5 being easy to work on this article from October on how the PS5 backwards compatibility not ready yet was also posted.
this made me wonder since this is far later than June/July
Is it possible that the tests and data of Oberon we recently got from _rogame is a "devkit" or for BC or perhaps the results are from a machine based on parts of Oberone but without hardware found in the "real" Oberon or PS5 devkit.
This is probably completely my mind just spinning from staying in this thread so long but it seems whenever we gotten leaks of Oberon it's also included the clock speed of older consoles with it like this for example
http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-5-gpu-specs-leak-2ghz-backwards-compatibility-mode/
We then have people in here translating from some Taiwanese (Chinese?) forum how Oberon is "behind" and perhaps won't make it to holidays 2020 which also would fit very well into the article about BC being behind and perhaps not making it to release. The important thing however is they still claim PS5 will.
Once again this surely is my mind making connections that are completely wrong but if anyone with a bit of sanity left could point out how this can't be the case then by all means plz do that.
this made me wonder since this is far later than June/July
Is it possible that the tests and data of Oberon we recently got from _rogame is a "devkit" or for BC or perhaps the results are from a machine based on parts of Oberone but without hardware found in the "real" Oberon or PS5 devkit.
This is probably completely my mind just spinning from staying in this thread so long but it seems whenever we gotten leaks of Oberon it's also included the clock speed of older consoles with it like this for example
http://www.redgamingtech.com/playstation-5-gpu-specs-leak-2ghz-backwards-compatibility-mode/
We then have people in here translating from some Taiwanese (Chinese?) forum how Oberon is "behind" and perhaps won't make it to holidays 2020 which also would fit very well into the article about BC being behind and perhaps not making it to release. The important thing however is they still claim PS5 will.
Once again this surely is my mind making connections that are completely wrong but if anyone with a bit of sanity left could point out how this can't be the case then by all means plz do that.
I was just playing some Madden. It's not terrible from a graphics point of view, but certainly not the best either. My main issue is with the animations, where characters still move like this:
It happened with Turn 10, Bungie, The Coalition. Same thing happened as pertains to their partnership with Playground.
I just want clothes that don't clip, Dark Souls are embarrassingly bad at this, my onion head keeps clipping onto my face lol
I hear you, but the tests from June/July suggests < 10 TF, and not much else "exotic." A SSD is likely more expensive than the 500 GB HDD they used for launch of PS4 but does its cost warrant a $100 increase in price? To be honest, I don't know if the RAM used for the config in those tests are more or less expensive than 8GB of GDDR5 6 years ago.
But there are probably people in this thread, with way more knowledge than me, that have made calculations on this way back. :D
Nope. You can say what you want on your twitter profile, but it's a dick move when you obviously wrote some sadly posts here, got some sort of warning from mods ( Matt in this case ) and then later make a tweet referred to this board and trying to be some kind of drama queen and get some attention there. I've read numerous examples on twitter
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But Sony is coming in from a generation when being priced competitively made them the undisputed kings from day one. If people need to buy a Playstation to play Uncharted, Gran Turismo and God of War, why should they bother making it more powerful (and as a consequence expensive)? Also, the first Xbox was an incredibly powerful machine and it seems that MS likes having that crown. No one can deny that the Xbox One X, though it didn't turn the sales trend around, definitely did something for Xbox as a brand after years of being a lesser experience. I think both would be happy that way. Power alone doesn't move consoles.
We've got dynamic capes in Anthem and stuff. Look at how stiff that characters pants are.I've been wondering this myself. But after seeing the Everwild trailer, I'm hopeful. The "cape" here looks like it's moving dynamically:
Also, keep in mind that sports games already have legit cloth physics.
Unfortunately with 2k, that gif is from nba 2K14 and the visuals have only gotten worse with each subsequent entry.
I'm hoping we might see stuff where the clothes and crumple and fold in gameplay like in those classic KoF or Third Strike animations.
We havent' gotten close to this in 3D videogames yet.
Albert Penello on console schedules
I would define "tapeout" as the ready-to-manufacture silicon. This would be final production ready silicon that is ready to mass-produce in volumes.
That generally happens very shortly before launch - typically less than a year. In fact, Scorpio tapeout IIRC happened in March 2017. Bringup (or the first piece of manufactured silicon that can be put in prototype boxes) came in December 2016 (so about a little less than a year before launch).
Phil has tweeted that they had takehome units shortly before Christmas, which by my estimation would mean they are past bringup, but prior to tapeout, but actually ahead of schedule relative to Scorpio which was a pretty smooth process. So I would say things seem to be going well.
Highly unlikely that any changes would be able to be done with either console at this point, unless two things are true.
1. The exterior case and cooling design can handle whatever increases they would like to implement (could be CU's, could be clock speed but either way it's more heat)
2. They are seeing much better yields than anticipated and can meet their launch volume targets and long-term cost reduction goals.
Basically, at this point the consoles that are shipping are the ones that both companies have been planning to ship for at least a year, unless they delay the launch (and eat a ton of sunk costs) or had build in the ability to react to any bumps in performance in advance.
When Jim Ryian said he wanted to transition people to PS5 at fast pace, I think he means that there will no shortages during the launch period. Moreover, I bet it will be launched worldwide , not like PS4 staggered release.
Not necessarily about price. Since early adopters will absolutely pay 499$ for the console.
Not necessarily about price. Since early adopters will absolutely pay 499$ for the console.
This is very important for everybody here to keep in mind, thank you Albert.
There are situations where having Lockhart as a lower baseline can impact anaconda.
If the only difference is GPU, and your Lockhart GPU is designed to be 1080p vs anaconda 4K, then you're effectively setting a shader budget per pixel. You can design what you like on Lockhart and know that the additional GPU headroom on anaconda will scale that to 4K. but what if you want to start with a lower res on anaconda because of the engine needs? Like 1440p upscale, using much more time per pixel for RT and other effects? Now you're potentially running Lockhart at 720p or lower, and upscaling? Might be technically possible but not attractive to publishers so they may want to tone down the anaconda version
Its definitley a possibility that sony needed the earliest navi version possible to test and code all the relevant bc features. Hence the gen0,gen1 and gen2 modes and gfx10xx id's.
Maybe this is also a reason for the amd made navi for sony rumors. All to serve the purpose of having enough time to ensure full bc for launch.
I dont know what changes sony can make to the soc until the final silicon gets fabricated in summer 2020.
Maybe sony really went nuts and made two different soc, one for testing and early devkit coding and one for the final ps5 version which lacks behind schedule, but i dont think this is true, it would cost them millions.
Are you surprised about the rumored 12TF Series X target specs?
Afaik you were pretty conservative with your next gen estimates.
After having explored some twins accounts between twitter and Era, I understand better the pompous tone of our wannabe influencers here. It"s not enough to spread their evangelical preach or to bawl like hooligans, they also have of to shit on this forum for their e-glory when returning in their circle jerk community, while using it to leech the reputation of others.
So would it be fair to say that at this point (especially with it being less than a year until launch) that both PS5 and Series X are basically in finalized states give or take some decisions to upclock, etc?
This is going to be one hell of a riddle to solve in the next two months.
Hope you're aware that you're doing the same exact thing with those posts here.
While I doubt Sony would chase the power crown quite as hard as MS right now, I'm not sure how 'casual' they'd go. Early adopters are basically whales for consoles - we spend a huge amount compared to later adopters. So you don't want to lose those.
Having said that - aiming for $399 doesn't mean aiming at casuals - just aiming at the mainstream pricing like before. I hope they don't, I'd prefer more power. But it is what it is (except we don't know what that is yet)
The problem is that you seem to be more willing to accept data mines from chips that may have nothing to do with the final product over a statement made by the chief architect of PS5 confirming HW RT in the GPU.
I'm the opposite. Sony has made a clear statement, if the chips found don't jive with that statement then clearly there's more to the story we don't know about and those chips may not be in the final system
Same general arguments I make on here, I make on twitter. The one exception would be me amusing myself with the more out there things about suddenly there being a dual GPU setup and PS5 Pro launching same day as the regular PS5, or how quickly people are ready to claim this chip has absolutely nothing to do with PS5. I don't bother with those things here because it would come off as trolling and derail the thread. So what I can't do here I amuse myself with on twitter to keep the thread clean.
I don't entirely write off the PS5 Pro thing because I personally believe both sides have more consoles in the works than people think. I personally believe there are 3, not 2, next gen xbox consoles currently in active development, and the Xbox Series X is the second strongest among them with the more powerful one releasing about year into the new gen. So just as people have crazy ideas, I obviously have a few of my own.
Lastly, I try to be civil here, but sometimes you guys are way too damn sensitive about this stuff. It's like someone broke into your house and assaulted your dog. Sony may not exactly have a lock on power in the next gen consoles, or maybe they do, or maybe it's so close that it won't even matter. I prefer xbox as my primary gaming platform of choice, and I'd like to know that Xbox put their best foot forward, and so there would indeed be some satisfaction in seeing xbox stronger, but all in all it doesn't really matter in the end because both systems are going to be fucking incredible. I'm getting a PS5 too so I'd want it to be as cutting edge as possible also. I don't want this 9.2TF figure to be true, hell no, and I damn sure don't want it to not have VRS or to have an inferior RT solution (I'm not saying that it is any of things, but that's what this AMD driver info pointed to about what appears to be a finalized chip)
I say we wait and see. I personally believe the PS5 has 54 CUs, same thing I've said on twitter. I want to believe the current info is old until proven otherwise, because I want PS5 to pack even more power. I want Microsoft and Xbox under some pressure. There's nothing to be gained but fanboy bragging rights if Xbox is really 12tf to ps5's 9.2. I have a few opinions on how much more civil I think things are though when Sony doesn't have the power advantage because then people seem to focus more on the content and the games rather than trying to use power as a reason to imply a console isn't worth someone's time or somehow doesn't belong and should just altogether go away from console gaming altogether, which is what I often seem to hear a lot regarding xbox. People still treat Xbox like an invading occupier that has no place despite all that Xbox has done for console gaming. Competition for Sony in the hardcore space rises all boats. It makes everything better for all gamers.
The reactions so far where some are potentially settling into the idea of the PS5 maybe being a 9.2TF system that prices itself aggressively at $399.99 and knowing that Sony's 1st parties will make that shit sing is clear evidence of the fact that once all the nonsense passes, people ultimately focus on where they enjoy playing and what they want to play rather than who has the bigger numbers. So yea, that's all.
Thank you Albert for the timescales there, that's really informative and reassuring.
no, it doesn't. Maybe the [email protected] is a boost mode for PS4pro backward compatibility. The native Oberon mode should be more than 36CU.
The crazy thing is that the last 20-30 pages boils down to this statement. Then sangreal took the time to actually investigate and found out it was internal testing documents that had no relevance to the topic at hand and people just conveniently skipped over it. Nothing that Rogame posted on Twitter linesup with anything said by Sony or by insiders up to this point especially with Cerny's insistence that the console is going to be priced according to its power basically. That doesn't sound like a 9TF system.
If you played 'one of these things is not like the other' then that would be this chip info. Yes it is interesting but is mis-alighted with so many pieces of info from elsewhere including Sony official comments about RT, that surely we have to consider it questionable for now?
I'm sure the reporting is accurate, but we don't know how/if that fits into the overall picture yet
Can I ask what happened to anexhumane? Can't see the ban post but was always a calm poster?
I'm sure the reporting is accurate, but we don't know how/if that fits into the overall picture yet
Can I ask what happened to anexhumane? Can't see the ban post but was always a calm poster?
Fair enough. I carry some doubts about why the usually very verbose and specifics heavy Cerny is being so hesitant on discussing ray tracing with PS5 a bit more, but perhaps I'm being impatient for info and should take him at his word that there's hardware ray tracing acceleration. I know the SSD is important, but I'm surprised it appears to be all he wants to go into detail on. I just would like a more definitive statement or at some point a demonstration of ray tracing and PS5 similar to what was done with spiderman and the SSD.
But then, in fairness, AMD themselves haven't shown much about their solution yet either (hope they do at CES 2020) and till further notice AMD is the supplier of the capability, unless Sony have their own solution or went with another vendor.
The mode [email protected] was labelled "native" the other modes were labelled GPU0 and GPU1 if I'm not mistaken
Doesn't look like a Boost mode to me
This did not happen, sangreal pointer out that the information has been out since june/July. It absolutely has to do with the topic at hand considering it's the test runs for the future ps5 chip
So besides the Dualshock 5 patent with the back buttons, anything else newsworthy that I missed?
I really want it to be in the new controller. I think that would actually work fairly well as it's distances is away from the handles so to prevent accidentally hitting it as you have to extend the fingers. It's actually one of the gripes I have with the XBX where sometimes, when you don't want to use it, the way it's placed and designed can accidentally hit it so you have to remove it every time which is easy but feels a bit less elegant in a way.New buttons on the DS5:
Via https://nl.letsgodigital.org/spelcomputers-games/sony-playstation-5-wireless-dualshock-update/
That's pretty good summary. There's just too many things pointing towards RT especially after confirmation that it makes absolutely no sense to put more value into a single datamine and then finding ways to explain why it may not have RT as it's far more complicated which is completely illogical.
So I have probably a dumb question. But could Sony be extending the checkerboard acceleration used in the pro to the ps5? While teraflop might be lower than the XSX, the higher clock speeds using that might perform better? I really don't understand how it all works so maybe not.
I really wonder how there can be so much conflicting information from what the data miners have reported to what the insiders have reported. Reading through the thread gave me a headache. It'll be nice when both have full spec reveals and hopefully things calm down.
I'm really curious if there are other things like VRS that help with performance that we don't know about. Reading about stuff like that is neat and why I like this thread.
I really wonder how there can be so much conflicting information from what the data miners have reported to what the insiders have reported. Reading through the thread gave me a headache. It'll be nice when both have full spec reveals and hopefully things calm down.
I'm really curious if there are other things like VRS that help with performance that we don't know about. Reading about stuff like that is neat and why I like this thread.
For RT implementation there are a few moving parts so may not be possible to compare performance for a while
- if Sony has a separate implementation
- how does that perform directly vs amd solution
- how do they compare in real world (eg can separate implementation work in parallel with regular GPU activities but AMD solution pauses shading to use the units for RT?)
- how are the tools surfaced to devs? If Sony fo with a 'non standard' approach will that be harder for devs to leverage vs more standard assumed DXR approach for MS? Sony tools have been praised before so this shouldn't be an issue
Lots to unpack if Sony are taking a different approach
- if Sony has a separate implementation
- how does that perform directly vs amd solution
- how do they compare in real world (eg can separate implementation work in parallel with regular GPU activities but AMD solution pauses shading to use the units for RT?)
- how are the tools surfaced to devs? If Sony fo with a 'non standard' approach will that be harder for devs to leverage vs more standard assumed DXR approach for MS? Sony tools have been praised before so this shouldn't be an issue
Lots to unpack if Sony are taking a different approach
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