Cool, thanks. Was curious how it would look to get a 2 x 40 CU (4 disabled for each) in a butterfly setup like the Pro at say, 1.4 GHz. That should provide 12.9 TF, if I'm not mistaken. Doubt it'd happen, but was just pondering it.
This. I've bookmarked this comment for future reference.How is it at all damaging when only a handful of people on a few forums even know about it?
The real world doesn't know or care about some random teraflop calculations.
Are you using GCN years or RDNA years?
Guy also wants to work for Xbox badly. Said so on his Twitter long ago. Find it funny coming from him.
Yes but the long term effects of hardware backwards compatibility is questionable. Because it means that you're stuck with those set of instructions and specifications. If Sony opted for a custom RT solution, it means that they are stuck with it and can't use AMD's RT Solution in the future. (Assuming that's its custom). There are benefits and cons for hardware vs software compatibility. Microsoft went with software BC, Sony went with hardware BC.
We can tell by the amount of CU Xbox Consoles and PS Consoles have.
But lets pray that Sony designed the PS OS properly for future BC.
I'm sorry to see my favorite and one that many others expressed appreciation for was dropped:
|OT9| It's. A. Toy.
Sad, as I committed to supporting it. I guess I can't in good conscience vote for anything else (not that I expect the next thread to amount to much - at this rate it'll be mostly sniping for another 400 pages without much in the way of concrete information.)
Oh thanks i was looking for Its a toy so i voted for another one beforeSorry, "It's. A. Toy." was supposed to be in there, I saw it but must have forgotten to quote it. I've restarted the poll and added these two:
"Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT9| - Nein teraflops"
"Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT9| - It's. A. Toy. "
Apologies for the inconvenience, here's the new link!
Sorry, "It's. A. Toy." was supposed to be in there, I saw it but must have forgotten to quote it. I've restarted the poll and added these two:
"Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT9| - Nein teraflops"
"Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT9| - It's. A. Toy. "
Apologies for the inconvenience, here's the new link!
Then if wider and slower isn't possible, how is anyone thinking MS is reaching 12TFLOPs?
My personal, position is that 50+CUs reasonably clocked is the way to go, if they want high end performance. <400mmsq APU dies would mean a larger APU cost versus the previous gen., however, less RAM chips (PS4 use day 16) and a completely custom SSD would mean they can claw back some cost, and the lower clocked GPU would keep the cooling and chassis design under control.
Better yet, HBM would further lower power consumption and PCB complexity, and from the recent details discussed by chris 1515 , it seems HBM2(E) isn't as costly as many want to believe.
Lmfao seems like Cerny spent to much time in that bathtub.
From an user test that I saw elsewhere.
The GPU only die power for ~200+W console seems to be in 1800-1950mhz. With a years time that range might be at 2000-2150 mhz.
In other words, 150W for the GPU alone in the PS5 is believable. That gets you 1950mhz in 2019. It might get you 2150mhz in 2020.
Edit:
Please try to leave the GitHub stuff out of it, it's unfortunate that some kind of leak took place, I'm concerned about the person who made the mistake, so I don't think it would be a good idea to have thread title inspired by what happened.
Sorry, is that a GitHub reference? I mentioned this in a previous post:
How do we know it was an intern?
He left his resume in the folder.
Why do you think the excel files were a mess?
'cs_buffer_load_32bit_c2_cacheswizzle0_half_channel_arden' was apparently the first test done to check on Oberon's BC1 regression test, among other things.
What is the main question we should ask ourselves?
Can we tell what are the facts and which are 'facts' based on 6 months of speculation?
r197717 | chualin | 2019-05-20 22:29:45 +0800 (Mon, 20 May 2019) | 2 lines
confirmed with SIE, remove external/amd/lib/gfx10_a and external/amd/lib/gfx10_b/cmodel
How is it at all damaging when only a handful of people on a few forums even know about it?
The real world doesn't know or care about some random teraflop calculations.
I will continue to bang the drum that the folks you have to appease early on are the hardcore/enthusiasts, which is ERA. Organic channel sentiment grows from the top down (little brother chats with techie big brother, joe blow watches a gaming youtube channel talking about these leaks... just examples, you get my point). Get out ahead of the potential mis-info, correct the potentially misguided wave, and you eliminate the embers of the "I have a PS4 but now considering an Xbox due to potential power gap" narrative. Once that door has been opened to a previous loyalist, Sony runs the risk of customer base churn.
I do not mean this from a MS vs Sony perspective, but from a purely business perspective. To be very clear, I am not approaching this from a Sony vs MS perspective, but from a purely PR/optics perspective for Sony.
History has shown us that Era's opinion doesn't mean much of anything and they don't reflect the market at all. A lot of people here don't even believe it and are waiting for the reveal.I will continue to bang the drum that the folks you have to appease early on are the hardcore/enthusiasts, which is ERA. Organic channel sentiment grows from the top down (little brother chats with techie big brother, joe blow watches a gaming youtube channel talking about these leaks... just examples, you get my point). Get out ahead of the potential mis-info, correct the potentially misguided wave, and you eliminate the embers of the "I have a PS4 but now considering an Xbox due to potential power gap" narrative. Once that door has been opened to a previous loyalist, Sony runs the risk of customer base churn.
I do not mean this from a MS vs Sony perspective, but from a purely business perspective. To be very clear, I am not approaching this from a Sony vs MS perspective, but from a purely PR/optics perspective for Sony.
Lets simmer down and be realistic here. No one is making any decision, a year before the consoles release, because of these leaks.I will continue to bang the drum that the folks you have to appease early on are the hardcore/enthusiasts, which is ERA. Organic channel sentiment grows from the top down (little brother chats with techie big brother, joe blow watches a gaming youtube channel talking about these leaks... just examples, you get my point). Get out ahead of the potential mis-info, correct the potentially misguided wave, and you eliminate the embers of the "I have a PS4 but now considering an Xbox due to potential power gap" narrative. Once that door has been opened to a previous loyalist, Sony runs the risk of customer base churn.
I do not mean this from a MS vs Sony perspective, but from a purely business perspective. To be very clear, I am not approaching this from a Sony vs MS perspective, but from a purely PR/optics perspective for Sony.
Because 4TF RDNA performance is ~28% more efficient in games than GCN(x1x) and Lockheart will have VRS for additional 25% performance gain in games and that puts it on equivalent to 6.4TF GCN GPU. Add 40x faster SSD, much faster memory, 4gb more memory, hardware RT, and 4x more powerful CPU and the overall picture changes drastically. I believe Lockheart at 4TF will perform at least 2x better in games than X1X.Is Lockhart still expected to be 4tf? If so, why a console that would be seemingly worse than the Xbox One X?
The name PS5 is confirmed and so is Series X. Might as well add X to the title
Because 4TF RDNA performance is ~28% more efficient in games than GCN(x1x) and Lockheart will have VRS for additional 25% performance gain in games and that puts it on equivalent to 6.4TF GCN GPU. Add 40x faster SSD, much faster memory, 4gb more memory, hardware RT, and 4x more powerful CPU and the overall picture changes drastically. I believe Lockheart at 4TF will perform at least 2x better in games than X1X.
a stepping stone seems plausible, if you have more time, you might take a more meandering route than someone who started later and has less room to manouverOh sure - I think the main question we have here is whether chip tested is in fact missing key hw-features, in which case - it's either for the wrong device, or it is a 'throwaway' revision.
Lets simmer down and be realistic here. No one is making any decision, a year before the consoles release, because of these leaks.
If the power gap exists, what do you want Sony to come out and say?
If it doesn't exist, what do you want Sony to come out and say?
A reputable company that is confident in its product does not alter its time tables because of niche forum chatter.
From an user test that I saw elsewhere.
The GPU only die power for ~200+W console seems to be in 1800-1950mhz. With a years time that range might be at 2000-2150 mhz.
In other words, 150W for the GPU alone in the PS5 is believable. That gets you 1950mhz in 2019. It might get you 2150mhz in 2020.
Did he have an objective section in the resume? LolHow do we know it was an intern?
He left his resume in the folder.
Why do you think the excel files were a mess?
'cs_buffer_load_32bit_c2_cacheswizzle0_half_channel_arden' was apparently the first test done to check on Oberon's BC1 regression test, among other things.
What is the main question we should ask ourselves?
Can we tell what are the facts and which are 'facts' based on 6 months of speculation?
You are correct, no one is making any decisions right now. But like i said, what allowing a potentially incorrect narrative to take hold does is opens the door for current customers to fan the embers of platform change.
Your last line is false. 100% false. I work in tech, and have very close friends/colleagues at the VP level working in consumer electronics (some focusing on the TV/display market, others with mobile phones) on the PR/marketing front, and there is an internal pointed effort (i.e. leaking information to forums, journos) to control narratives that begin to develop that can taint organic channel sentiment. There are even "leaks" that are preconstructed and ready to roll if needed. With (X)aaS being the new model, fractions of fractions of percentages of market share have sizable annual recurring revenue implications.
I'm just saying with all of this, era+gaf+reddit+youtube+DF+Twitter, this news trickles down.
Lmfao exactly. It is what it is already.Lets simmer down and be realistic here. No one is making any decision, a year before the consoles release, because of these leaks.
If the power gap exists, what do you want Sony to come out and say?
If it doesn't exist, what do you want Sony to come out and say?
A reputable company that is confident in its product does not alter its time tables because of niche forum chatter.
"Hey guys the people on ERA are really losing their shit, we might lose like 1500 sales, schedule the full reveal for CES right NOW!"
His daily work log also shows that outside of QA he was responsible for cleaning up boxes on the 7th floor and counting power supplies
To be fair, this is only one of a dozen+ BC1 sheets and it looks like he was just testing the python script -- I know you guys already discussed that and I do agree it is all a mess
but I think it is pretty easy to tell what is junk and what isn't in these files. Whether any of it has to do with PS5 is a whole different topic
It certainly involves Sony though -- everyone has pointed out the BC modes but they're also mentioned by name in the commit log his script pulled
if i had a nickle for every time this graph was posted i'd be a wealthy man
same here, but somewhere of 1.7~1.8 is already good enoughThis is why I doubt SX is under 1.8. It would be a waste to not run that box.
Hmm I wonder if the commit log is included in the zip download.
I should have made a branch!
he didn't know it until yesterday i thinkImagine this intern living their day completely unaware of the shitstorm they have caused in our world
The moment these companies show actual games, pricing and features, all this 'outrage' will have been a fart in the wind.
I still think it's strange to critique DF for commenting on the information that is out there.This is the problem with ResetEra. You make a normal comment and you get replied with an unnecessary aggressiv tone.
Where have i stated that richard confirms the specs?
I only have stated that DF has entered the speculation realm which i would not have expected them to enter. I am totally d'accord with it, but it is risky because you can be contradicted at any given time. The data is real but it is still all speculatioin what these data means for next gen.
And no need to reply. I am not interested in getting another aggressiv reply
This thread moves at an unimaginable pace but it's still fun to read. But I was wondering about something myself that I didn't see talked about (I think). When designing a console APU, is it out of the ordinary to create concurrent APU designs to have some leeway in case of unsatisfactory results in performance/thermals in one of the APU? Or is it just incremental tweaks on the one APU design until you're satisfied with it...
I work in tech also. I know how PR operates, in micro and macro levels.You are correct, no one is making any decisions right now. But like i said, what allowing a potentially incorrect narrative to take hold does is opens the door for current customers to fan the embers of platform change.
Your last line is false. 100% false. I work in tech, and have very close friends/colleagues at the VP level working in consumer electronics (some focusing on the TV/display market, others with mobile phones) on the PR/marketing front, and there is an internal pointed effort (i.e. leaking information to forums, journos) to control narratives that begin to develop that can taint organic channel sentiment. There are even "leaks" that are preconstructed and ready to roll if needed. With (X)aaS being the new model, fractions of fractions of percentages of market share have sizable annual recurring revenue implications.
I'm just saying with all of this, era+gaf+reddit+youtube+DF+Twitter, this news trickles down.
There's a bit of history to go off of that tells us this can definitely happen. Sega quite famously had two competing designs for the Dreamcast. They chose the Japan developed PowerVR design instead of the 3Dfx powered American option. Sony had to give up on the Toshiba GPU component for PS3 and went with nVidia late in the process. Sony also had to throw out an early version of the PS4 based on using 4 Steamroller cores for the CPU instead of the 8 Jaguar cores we got.
I work in tech also. I know how PR operates, in micro and macro levels.
Things have to be said in ways that the average consumer can understand for damage to be done. Do you really believe we've condensed things down to that point yet? Hell play the DF video for an audience at E3 and they'd be lost, bored, and nodding off, before telling you to start the next gaming reel.
In the end, we are the only ones who want to "talk" video game consoles. Everyone else wants to talk video games.
Let me ask this: Did the months of forum chatter on the Xbox One being weaker than the PS4 do 1% of the damage of their disastrous E3 reveal?
I work in tech also. I know how PR operates, in micro and macro levels.
Things have to be said in ways that the average consumer can understand for damage to be done. Do you really believe we've condensed things down to that point yet? Hell play the DF video for an audience at E3 and they'd be lost, bored, and nodding off, before telling you to start the next gaming reel.
In the end, we are the only ones who want to "talk" video game consoles. Everyone else wants to talk video games.
Let me ask this: Did the months of forum chatter on the Xbox One being weaker than the PS4 do 1% of the damage of their disastrous E3 reveal?
The power and resolution difference was in every single gaming article. Each time a multiplat released, resolution was at the forefront of the media. It put resolution ahead of performance for an entire console generation, and basically defined it.
Who knows what people will be focused on? Maybe it'll be resolution, maybe it'll be loading time this time around.
Yeah. Market research around the beginning of the gen showed "weak graphic power" (or similar) was a pretty meaningful part of the One's relatively poor performance.I work in tech also. I know how PR operates, in micro and macro levels.
Things have to be said in ways that the average consumer can understand for damage to be done. Do you really believe we've condensed things down to that point yet? Hell play the DF video for an audience at E3 and they'd be lost, bored, and nodding off, before telling you to start the next gaming reel.
In the end, we are the only ones who want to "talk" video game consoles. Everyone else wants to talk video games.
Let me ask this: Did the months of forum chatter on the Xbox One being weaker than the PS4 do 1% of the damage of their disastrous E3 reveal?
I work in tech also. I know how PR operates, in micro and macro levels.
Things have to be said in ways that the average consumer can understand for damage to be done. Do you really believe we've condensed things down to that point yet? Hell play the DF video for an audience at E3 and they'd be lost, bored, and nodding off, before telling you to start the next gaming reel.
In the end, we are the only ones who want to "talk" video game consoles. Everyone else wants to talk video games.
Let me ask this: Did the months of forum chatter on the Xbox One being weaker than the PS4 do 1% of the damage of their disastrous E3 reveal?
Isn't this kinda silly to ask? Can you show proof that any chip at all will be in PS or xbox? They can just say screw it and ship us 3d printed plastic and say play through cloud on ur phone lolShow me data that shows proof that these chips will be in any PS5 at all?
Because only Sony/MS can confirm anything, everything else is a rumor and speculation. Everything any developer tells us is still not a confirmation but a rumor based on what they were told or how they interpreted the information they received. None of it is confirmation of anything.Well Matt clearly said that the Github leak can't confirm anything and here we are still analyzing the same data.
How we can blame them if they don't want to comment any further on this subject?