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PS5 and Xbox Series speculation |OT11| Cry Havoc and Let Slip the Dogs of War [NEW NEWS, NEW THREAD - CHECK OUT THE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Transistor
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Maybe we've had it wrong all this time.. what if MS isn't using AMD's solution for ray-tracing and VRS, but rather AMD is using MS' implementation of the technology for their RDNA2 GPUs... just a thought.
This would mean that Sony has their own custom implementations though.
This would mean that Sony has their own custom implementations though.
Nobody knows! RDNA2 does not exist in any product which has been released yet!
Guys I don't think he's seriously talking about native 4K/60fps multi bounce ray tracing being on the table. It's why I think the comment is a bit sarky (in a slightly 'does it poop unicorns' kind of way). You could read the comment a couple of ways, but as a 'hinted' claim of capabilities, I don't think so.
To me it seems like PS5 is capable of multi-bounce raytracing @4k 60fps and they have maybe solution superior to VRS
Seems to me PS5 GPU is more custom.
Unless he do like that ND person and said hardware RT and it get delete and he said he not know lol.
Yep, maybe the "rumor" about custom HW RT solution has something in it. Because this also how I see it, it is very "specific" questions.
To me it seems like people are reading this whichever way suits their confirmation bias.
So you're saying MS provided RT and VRS for Navi, which AMD created for Sony? :P
With multi-bounce you cast new rays from each polygon intersection hit. That will give you more accurate results, but costs considerably more, and it's pretty useful for stuff like GI. Working with transparent and/or translucent materials properly pretty much requires multi-bounce, and reflections work much better with it, as well.
PS5 being last gen RDNA1 with some RDNA 2 stuff bolted on sort of like the PS4 Pro GPU had some Polaris bits but wasnt a Polaris GPU would match a lot of rumors / twitter scuttlebutt.
Curious to see what Sony says next. MS kinda just dropped the mic spec wise and I believe they know Sony doesn't have anything to counter.
Curious to see what Sony says next. MS kinda just dropped the mic spec wise and I believe they know Sony doesn't have anything to counter.
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And this is what happens when sony stays quiet lol. n this day and age, no news is = bad news lol.
Fortunately, none of this matters when after sony does their reveal..well, unless they are at 8TF that is.
Variable Rate Shading.
Glad to see
Agree. That's how it reads to me, awfully specific questions...
I have been thinking lately, and it may have already been answered...
With Sony doing VR, would 9tf be good even for a next gen leap for PSVR 2?
I think they have to have good VRS just for VR. Decent frame rates, resolution too.
And like someone said earlier, with the Series X specs, would have been nice to see MS invest in VR for Series X. I get that's more of a business plan thing vs. a specs thing.
Seems pretty clear he is flexing back to me but could be wrong
that all reads like non-sense
a ray hits something and keeps going.
But whatever that person is saying makes no sense. I am pretty sure they are just being rhetorical and provocative. I think it is just questioning to what extent and performance RDNA 2 does RT.
Feels like damage control to me on his part. Him asking all those questions as principal engineer on PS5, is he scared or something ;p
Didn't Sony demo eye tracking targeting about six years ago with an Infamous demo?
"Navi was made just for Sony"
Maybe this means something very different.
RDNA2 was what AMD were developing. But Sony didn't want the RT hardware etc and had their own solution they were building. So AMD spun off a next gen GPU design without those components - Navi. Which they released as the 5700 series because why not take advantage to get new GPU tech out there while they cooked the one with RT.
So basically Sony requested a version of their next gen GPU CUs *without* RT because they were working on their own custom hardware for that.
Also makes things a whole lot more interesting - if the RT is dealt with a different part of the chip then I would believe that a 9.2 Navi chip not handling and RT would be very close to a 12TF RDNA2 chip which would have to use those flops to do RT.
Which would unify a lot of rumours. The rumours of the consoles being super close. The rumours of Navi being developed for Sony.
This tweet from the PS5 hardware lead sounds like he is downing the RT capabilities of RDNA2, as if he believes there is a superior solution.
So PS5 could well be Oberon, which you will note also lacks any mention of RT.
that's why it's called RDNA2 not Navi 2 ;-p. /s
Just saying though, RDNA2 GPU leaks have specifically called out DXR RT if I'm not mistaken, we'll see I guess.
Even if Sony is only running 40 cus I do believe it will be very custom.
Not a big deal imo at all if Sony is at 9tf range.
Games are still gonna look great.
It feels like to me the SX is a $599 launch box as well.
I think we will get a lockheart announcement pretty soon here and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it did launch this fall at $399.
It really just kind of depends on how much one s and one x stock MS has built up imo. If they have like 10-20mil sitting around then yeah that's gonna be the MS budget option this holiday, $200 one s, $300 one x, and $599 sx until lockheart launches spring 2021 at $399, possibly $299 of it truly is digital only.
Not a big deal imo at all if Sony is at 9tf range.
Games are still gonna look great.
It feels like to me the SX is a $599 launch box as well.
I think we will get a lockheart announcement pretty soon here and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it did launch this fall at $399.
It really just kind of depends on how much one s and one x stock MS has built up imo. If they have like 10-20mil sitting around then yeah that's gonna be the MS budget option this holiday, $200 one s, $300 one x, and $599 sx until lockheart launches spring 2021 at $399, possibly $299 of it truly is digital only.
And I'm still here, waiting anxiously to see if RDNA2 (and the consoles) have some kind of acceleration for TSS/Texel Shading :D
I think it's more to do with price than specs. I think Sony may be beaten on specs and that's why price is so crucial, they want to know what MS will price the XSX at so they can price the PS5 at a point where people will not be bothered about any spec difference
I kind of think the opposite. I think it's possible that Microsoft could know when Sony is going to be sharing more details about the PS5 and wanted to get ahead of them on it.
Maybe things are gonna start heating up soon.
Or he's cocky about something.
That's the thing with over-analysing every tweet, every matt post, every dev statement : there's always a way to read it with some kind of confirmation bias so it goes your way.
Yup
They do not sound or seem confident at all, miles away from the confidence of the PS4 launch
Whoa, what did I miss?
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Hmmm.
Hah.
Well I think it is just, like, him asking rhetorical questions about the supposed performance of RDNA 2's RT implementation. 4K 60 is just a pie in the sky goal that he names. Multi bounce, just means... rays hitting things and then hitting things again after rebounding. Frustum is a bit weird as it is describing what I assume he means as "how far outside the view frustum around the player camera is RT happening in world space" and then the thing about VRS applying is ????? because VRS is something completely different than RT and there is nothing preventing them from working together.
Rays in ray tracing bounce off of objects in the game world. there is usually a limit on how many times they can bounce off of objects. rtx rays can usually bounce multiple times, but dont think they can bounce off of the same object multiple times. maybe thats what they are talking about.
I mean that's what everyone is doing. All speculation is based on "feelings" at this point. We all know what's out there. Any prediction is based on how a person interpretes said info.
My opinion is based on the marketing statements we have fo either company.
Since forever we know they concentrate on their strengths.
Since day one Microsoft has been very confident about the power of their console. That's the number one thing they talk about, and they have not been shy about saying it. Even randomly posted the specs on their website without much hoopla. This tells me "power" is the thing or one of the main things they will market on.
Sony on the other hand hasn't talked so much about "power" but the tech inside their console like the SSD, Ray Tracing, etc.
To me this says they don't plan on marketing on raw power.
The Github leak just gives me numbers to apply to their current marketing strategies and the numbers add up and have been confirmed on one side. So gives me confidence that my feeling is correct.
Sounds to me like he's flexing that PS5 can do all of that and is more capable at RT.
Hey they got a pretty impressive VR headset working at 2< TFs.
I'm sure 9 is enough, especially with all the other hardware upgrades PS5 will have.
People will always be bothered by specs though, there is no way around it. You know how those digital foundry comparison threads Will turn out by year's end... Especially early on in a gen, price isn't as important as people are looking for the best experience possible and early adopters are usually willing to pay the price for it.
I see now, and agree after your clarification.
"Frustum" appears a lot in Sony patents, so that appears to be their terminology of choice.
Yep he seems to be insecure as if RDNA 2 would add any value compared to RDNA 1.
This would support a lot of theories and info we know but we will have to wait and see
AMD is not going to develop an entire micro-architecture for Sony.
Sony is also unlikely to fund the research and development of a GPU class and not ask for a royalty going forward. This is not the world of tech works.
People are reaching. Honestly cannot wait for Sony to reveal their console.
If the PS5 had an inferior RT solution, why would he even post this? Surely he would just not say anything?
It would be pretty weird to put a tweet out like that unless he was confident that PS5 could do that, exceptionally weird. "Will your console be able to do X, Y and Z?" is not something you would be challenging on if yours couldn't.
Could be that he's frustrated that PS5 and his tech is being held back from reveal while MS are stealing all the spotlight, and he's critiquing their solution to RT.
That's the point they aren't. It's a variant of the Xbox Series X/RDNA2 architecture without RT.
And you say AMD aren't going to build custom arch for Sony when you realise they already did exactly that with both PS4 and PS4Pro (extra ACEs in PS4 and FP16 in Pro). This also kind of benefits AMD since they get to release the 5700 series rather than wait for their full next gen tech to mature with RT.
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