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Striker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,376
effzee I don't know why you're so fixated on blaming Eli for Beckham's departure. Odell is a grown man and management expected him to grow up more after getting a new deal. Paul Schwartz detailed it nicely:

Players most often come and go based on their production, or lack thereof. Odell Beckham Jr. has come and gone from the Giants and his departure has nothing to do with what he achieved or failed to accomplish on the field.

The Giants cannot, and did not, look at all the catches and yards and touchdowns and jaw-dropping plays and convince themselves Beckham could have done more. Trading him to the Browns, a deal consummated late Tuesday and made official Wednesday afternoon, ultimately came down to two separate but connected issues: What they could get for Beckham compared with how much energy they had to expend to keep him around.

There is an Odell-ness to Odell Beckham Jr. and, after five years, it eventually ran its course for the Giants. Some inside the building feel a sense of relief that the superstar receiver will no longer bring unwanted attention to a franchise that did not necessarily grow sick of him but grew increasingly exhausted trying to keep up with the issues and notoriety that clung to him the way the football stuck to his huge right hand.

Beckham was a popular but often polarizing presence with a legion of fans in awe of his talent and at times frustrated with his antics. To the sick children he visited — without fanfare — and the youngsters sporting dyed blond hair he thrilled with autographs, selfies and dance moves, Odell was a comic book hero in a No. 13 jersey. To traditionalists preferring hand-the-ball-to-the-referee comportment, Beckham was a solo artist, gifted but self-absorbed. There are no fence-sitters with Beckham and his exit is a curse or a blessing, depending on your Odell-meter.....

--

On a separate note, Giants hosting former Vikings RT Mike Remmers in. They moved him to guard last year and it didn't work. I can see this happening, but still try to draft a OT early on.
 

Tom Penny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,237
OBJ will be fine but High end WR have been more or less irrelevant forever as the missing SB contender and winner piece.
 

effzee

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,215
NJ
effzee I don't know why you're so fixated on blaming Eli for Beckham's departure. Odell is a grown man and management expected him to grow up more after getting a new deal. Paul Schwartz detailed it nicely:

Not blaming Eli but the whole group of fans, media, and the owner who didn't have the guts to bench him or after they did to go forward with it. I agree with trading OBJ. I actually think what they got in return is decent. I've been saying it made no sense to sign him to an extension because they are not close to winning.

But instead of getting rid of the real issue and starting over with a new QB, this miscalculation cost them a QB in the last draft and now their WR who just happens to be a top 5 WR, if not the best in the league.

OBJ has issues but if you listen to Mike and his hive, as I detailed, he was never any good and didn't deserve to be a Giant. I just find it hilarious that these ppl call in thinking playing for the Giants is some honor that OBJ violated. Or that Mike, who has some influence, is driving this crusade against OBJ as the player. As if he was the whole reason they haven't been good. That Eli was great this whole time but everything and everyone else, esp OBJ, is to blame for this mess.

To me its a smart and right decision to make but let's not act like OBJ was some bum who was holding the team back.

And if they really were fed up with him and his antics why in the world did they sign him just last year? Give him all that $$$? To me, it is clear they moved him because yes he is a pain in the ass but FAR MORE IMPORTANTLY because they know they aren't winning anytime soon.

OBJ will be fine but High end WR have been more or less irrelevant forever as the missing SB contender and winner piece.

would be true if Cleveland didn't have a QB or a GM who was loading them up for a playoffs run this season.
 

Hindl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,668

Better deal than the Steelers

The whole thing Bell was looking for was guaranteed money. He was run into the ground on a rookie deal and had an injury history. A lot of people used that as a knock against him. So he was after the guaranteed money. The Steelers only gave him a $10M signing bonus, the rest of the guarantees were roster bonuses. So let's say in the first year of this deal he tears his Achilles or something and has to call it a career, the Steelers could've cut him and he wouldn't have seen anywhere near that $33M reported figure. Meanwhile, he gets more money from the Jets in the same situation. Especially since if he signed the deal, it would've replaced the franchise tag, not just added onto it. Plus, the Jets deal is shorter, so if Bell does perform, he gets to reenter the market again and earn even more guaranteed money

He was basically betting on himself getting hurt and trying to protect his worth if that happens. You can say it's wrong or dumb, but you never know, and he's at a position where players often retire before they want to due to the physical toll
 

effzee

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,215
NJ
Cleveland is shopping Duke Johnson but might wait until the NFL announced the length of the Kareem Hunt suspension. According to the what insiders are saying on twitter, the suspension might be handed this week (so today or tomorrow).

If Duke is available, I'd love for the Eagles to pick him up right away!
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,124
Better deal than the Steelers

The whole thing Bell was looking for was guaranteed money. He was run into the ground on a rookie deal and had an injury history. A lot of people used that as a knock against him. So he was after the guaranteed money. The Steelers only gave him a $10M signing bonus, the rest of the guarantees were roster bonuses. So let's say in the first year of this deal he tears his Achilles or something and has to call it a career, the Steelers could've cut him and he wouldn't have seen anywhere near that $33M reported figure. Meanwhile, he gets more money from the Jets in the same situation. Especially since if he signed the deal, it would've replaced the franchise tag, not just added onto it. Plus, the Jets deal is shorter, so if Bell does perform, he gets to reenter the market again and earn even more guaranteed money

He was basically betting on himself getting hurt and trying to protect his worth if that happens. You can say it's wrong or dumb, but you never know, and he's at a position where players often retire before they want to due to the physical toll
No.

How exactly do those contract details tell you he's not in the same exact situation that you just described? He's getting a smaller signing bonus, a smaller salary and less money overall. The guarantees in his new contract are written the exact same way the contract with the Steelers would have been written up.

He would have gotten his signing bonus and first year salary (which is guaranteed on the first day of the new league year, which is the same semantics being used for the new contract, btw) at a minimum. The Steelers don't cut guys for injuries, see Ryan Shazier who will still be on the roster this year. But say he went all Aaron Hermurdez, then he would've gotten $22M off that first year alone. He'd get $14.5M from the Jets in the same situation.
 
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iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,940
No.

How exactly do those contract details tell you he's not in the same exact situation that you just described? He's getting a smaller signing bonus, a smaller salary and less money overall. The guarantees in his new contract are written the exact the same way the contract with the Steelers would have been written up.

He would have gotten his signing bonus and first year salary (which is guaranteed on the first day of the new league year, which is the same semantics being used for the new contract, btw) at a minimum. The Steelers don't cut guys for injuries, see Ryan Shazier who will still be on the roster this year. But say he went all Aaron Hermurdez, then he would've gotten $22M off that first year alone. He'd get $14.5M from the Jets in the same situation.

I don't blame people for being misinformed. The media has latched onto the Steelers being a villainous franchise that doesn't take care of its players, and even when it's increasingly clear that that's not the case (AB's grievances being money driven and LB clearly not being worth what he was demanding) - they continue to parade that narrative in the face of facts that state otherwise.

We made Ben the highest paid QB in the league. We gave AB a big contract before he prove himself after Mike Wallace turned us down, and then we proceeded to make him the highest paid WR in the league when that contract aged horribly. We made an offer to Bell that would have made him the highest paid RB in the league. At the time they did the contract, they made Pouncey the highest paid Center in football. We are keeping Shazier under contract for the sole purpose of making sure he has the capability of taking advantage of the Steelers resources while he furthers his recovery. Yeah, we'll drop older players once they become a massive liability and not worth the cap hit - but even then we probably hang onto you a season or two longer than we probably should have.
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
Man if I'm even remotely in need of a qb either this year or in the next couple years I'm giving up a third round pick for rosen without hesitation.

He wasn't great last year but that offensive line was terrible and he has a great attitude.
 

Xyer

Avenger
Aug 26, 2018
7,353
"Steelers Sign NT Daniel McCullers To Two-Year Deal"

Browns, please fuck our shit up this year. Same old shit every year. Plug and play with bad players and washed up old guys instead of signing guys that could jump start this middling defense.
 

Tom Penny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,237
Not blaming Eli but the whole group of fans, media, and the owner who didn't have the guts to bench him or after they did to go forward with it. I agree with trading OBJ. I actually think what they got in return is decent. I've been saying it made no sense to sign him to an extension because they are not close to winning.

But instead of getting rid of the real issue and starting over with a new QB, this miscalculation cost them a QB in the last draft and now their WR who just happens to be a top 5 WR, if not the best in the league.

OBJ has issues but if you listen to Mike and his hive, as I detailed, he was never any good and didn't deserve to be a Giant. I just find it hilarious that these ppl call in thinking playing for the Giants is some honor that OBJ violated. Or that Mike, who has some influence, is driving this crusade against OBJ as the player. As if he was the whole reason they haven't been good. That Eli was great this whole time but everything and everyone else, esp OBJ, is to blame for this mess.

To me its a smart and right decision to make but let's not act like OBJ was some bum who was holding the team back.

And if they really were fed up with him and his antics why in the world did they sign him just last year? Give him all that $$$? To me, it is clear they moved him because yes he is a pain in the ass but FAR MORE IMPORTANTLY because they know they aren't winning anytime soon.



would be true if Cleveland didn't have a QB or a GM who was loading them up for a playoffs run this season.
Would be true? It is true until it happens... And it hasn't. All the best WR of are generation have won nothing in their prime unless your want to call Edelman elite and nobody puts him in the dominant category.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,070
Man if I'm even remotely in need of a qb either this year or in the next couple years I'm giving up a third round pick for rosen without hesitation.

He wasn't great last year but that offensive line was terrible and he has a great attitude.

Giants just got an extra third rounder to burn, if that's indeed all it would take...

Certainly a better idea than drafting a QB in the first round this year.
 

Soundscream

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,234
No.

How exactly do those contract details tell you he's not in the same exact situation that you just described? He's getting a smaller signing bonus, a smaller salary and less money overall. The guarantees in his new contract are written the exact same way the contract with the Steelers would have been written up.

He would have gotten his signing bonus and first year salary (which is guaranteed on the first day of the new league year, which is the same semantics being used for the new contract, btw) at a minimum. The Steelers don't cut guys for injuries, see Ryan Shazier who will still be on the roster this year. But say he went all Aaron Hermurdez, then he would've gotten $22M off that first year alone. He'd get $14.5M from the Jets in the same situation.
So week 1 in both contracts he suffers a career ending injury, which one pays him more?
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,124
So week 1 in both contracts he suffers a career ending injury, which one pays him more?
Steelers.

Let me clarify, because harSon is correct that everyone has bought this bullshit being doled out by the media. You can not guarantee any monies beyond the current league year. Period. The signing bonus and base salary are the only things that are for sure with the way those contracts are "guaranteed".
 

Hindl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,668
Steelers.

Let me clarify, because harSon is correct that everyone has bought this bullshit being doled out by the media. You can not guarantee any monies beyond the current league year. Period. The signing bonus and base salary are the only things that are for sure with the way those contracts are "guaranteed".
But you said if he were to go all Hernandez he'd get $22M from the Steelers on the first year alone. On the Jets contract he gets $26M fully guaranteed Sunday
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,124
But you said if he were to go all Hernandez he'd get $22M from the Steelers on the first year alone. On the Jets contract he gets $26M fully guaranteed Sunday
He gets $26M guaranteed the same way he would have been guaranteed $33M from the Steelers.

Why is this so fucking difficult to understand?

Actually, I should add that there are injury guarantees that are completely separate and aren't actually relevant to this particular discussion.
 
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Hindl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,668
He gets $26M guaranteed the same way he would have been guaranteed $33M from the Steelers.

Why is this so fucking difficult to understand?

Actually, I should add that there are injury guarantees that are completely separate and aren't actually relevant to this particular discussion.
Because


The $33M is guaranteed over the first two years

So in this scenario where Bell breaks his leg week 1 or is otherwise cut in the first year of his deal, he would not get $33M guaranteed from the Steelers deal
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,940
Because


The $33M is guaranteed over the first two years

So in this scenario where Bell breaks his leg week 1 or is otherwise cut in the first year of his deal, he would not get $33M guaranteed from the Steelers deal


Who are these teams that cut star players early into their contracts after they get injured?
 

effzee

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,215
NJ
Would be true? It is true until it happens... And it hasn't. All the best WR of are generation have won nothing in their prime unless your want to call Edelman elite and nobody puts him in the dominant category.

If you don't have a franchise QB, OLine, or DLINE, yes paying skill position player tons of money makes zero sense. The Giants should have never paid him.

That said, I never buy into this nonsense about top WRs not winning. How many elite top WRs are there? How dependent are they on the QB?

How many elite QBs are there that are paid top dollar? How many of them won an SB?
 

Hindl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,668
Who are these teams that cut star players early into their contracts after they get injured?
I'm not saying it would happen, I'm just explaining Bell's thinking. It's always been about the guarantees with him. Hell, it's the same thing we all say whenever we get information about new player contracts. It looks insane, and then you see the details and realize there's only x amount guaranteed. Because the guaranteed money is really the only thing that matters. He's looking to get as much money as possible from this contract, no matter what happens to him.
 

Minx

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,229
Illinois
Bears sign Haha for 1 year 3.5 million.

The Green Bay Packers and safety Adrian Amos agreed to a four-year, $37 million deal that included an $11 million signing bonus on Tuesday.

Haha
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,124
Because


The $33M is guaranteed over the first two years

So in this scenario where Bell breaks his leg week 1 or is otherwise cut in the first year of his deal, he would not get $33M guaranteed from the Steelers deal

Ian "AB has just been traded to the Bills" Rapaport? Again, THE ONLY ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED MONEY THAT THE JETS ARE GIVING OR LEGALLY CAN GIVE IS THE SIGNING BONUS AND THE FIRST YEAR SALARY. The rest is the same "rolling" guarantee business.

And, again, there can be some offset for injury guarantees that pretty much every contract has.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of teams that someone left for a better offer. There's no incentive to tell the truth, or leak the truth to reporters.
 

Tom Penny

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,237
If you don't have a franchise QB, OLine, or DLINE, yes paying skill position player tons of money makes zero sense. The Giants should have never paid him.

That said, I never buy into this nonsense about top WRs not winning. How many elite top WRs are there? How dependent are they on the QB?

How many elite QBs are there that are paid top dollar? How many of them won an SB?

You're proving my point. WR are dependent on a QB. Manning Rodgers Brady Brees will all produce with merely good and sometimes averege WR.. It's not a position to pay top dollar at. Name the Top top 10 WR's you have actually seen play in your life. Name the QB's. Count the SB's..yeah it isn't even close. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Pey Pey Ben have 12 alone...you are probably counting to zero on WR unless you are counting Jerry Rice Michael Irving in the no cap era...
 

Striker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,376
Bears sign Haha for 1 year 3.5 million.

The Green Bay Packers and safety Adrian Amos agreed to a four-year, $37 million deal that included an $11 million signing bonus on Tuesday.

Haha
Haha was run out of Green Bay and sucked in Washington. Hopefully for you guys he's a backup.

Bengals signed CB B.W. Webb. Career year for the journeyman last year. Curious what Cincinnati paid.
 

chuckddd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,124
Lev Bell would be jumping up and down on twitter talking shit if thought he actually won his bet. At least he's handling it like a man and not off whining about it, I'll give him that. Well, he might be drowning his sorrows with copious amounts of high grade and cheetos, but that's another discussion.
 

futurevoid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
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