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NFL-OT | OFF-SEASON - A New Hope (Losers Only)

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
Oct 25, 2017
1,681
Some talk being passed around here is for the Texans to trade Clowney. personally Im not real sold on the idea but the thought of what the team could get in return is interesting to consider.

Im thinking a first this year with a 3rd or 4th and maybe a 2nd next year
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,751
New Jersey
Some talk being passed around here is for the Texans to trade Clowney. personally Im not real sold on the idea but the thought of what the team could get in return is interesting to consider.

Im thinking a first this year with a 3rd or 4th and maybe a 2nd next year
I doubt you get anywhere near that for him. Dee Ford only landed a 2020 2nd and he’s in the same tier as Clowney.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,751
New Jersey
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that time has passed and the NFL screwed you guys over the chance of. The whole NFC (contender)s has gotten that much better since FA.
Have they though?

The Eagles only get better by virtue of Wentz hopefully being 100% next year
Dallas did nothing in FA and don’t have a 1st round pick
Atlanta did nothing in FA
Carolina did nothing and Cam might not be 100%
Minnesota has the same core roster
Detroit overpaid to downgrade
Chicago did nothing notable and don’t have a 1st round pick
Seattle bled players
LA made some changes but didn’t really get better, and they may permanently lose Gurley to arthritic knees
San Fran didn’t do much other than hopefully have Jimmy back for week 1, but that’s still a 4-12 team otherwise.

The only team in the NFC that actually genuinely improved was the Packers. The Saints are still the favorites as long as Brees’ arm doesn’t give out imo. Granted the Saints haven’t done anything to improve and don’t have a 1st round pick, but they really didn’t need to make a whole lot of changes.
 
Jul 18, 2018
862
Have they though?

The Eagles only get better by virtue of Wentz hopefully being 100% next year
Dallas did nothing in FA and don’t have a 1st round pick
Atlanta did nothing in FA
Carolina did nothing and Cam might not be 100%
Minnesota has the same core roster
Detroit overpaid to downgrade
Chicago did nothing notable and don’t have a 1st round pick
Seattle bled players
LA made some changes but didn’t really get better, and they may permanently lose Gurley to arthritic knees
San Fran didn’t do much other than hopefully have Jimmy back for week 1, but that’s still a 4-12 team otherwise.

The only team in the NFC that actually genuinely improved was the Packers. The Saints are still the favorites as long as Brees’ arm doesn’t give out imo.
Eagles got better yes, picked up some good people. Still have FA RB's they can sign back like
Atlanta -> u right.
Carolina added C Matt Paradis -> That's a great signing, if Cam is healthy this season, they are contenders. Re-signed keep players on D
Minnesota -> u right.
Detroit -> DE Trey Flowers -> upgrade no matter what. CB Justin Coleman -> Upgrade . WR - Danny A (not sure..).
Chicago -> S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix -> D JUST GOT A UPGRADE!!!!!!! How is that not notable???!
Seahawks -> OLB K.J. Wright -> Upgrade
49ers -> CB Jason Verrett, RB Tevin Coleman, LB Kwon Alexander -> UPGRADESSSSS
Packers -> Amos, Smith -> UPGRADEEEEEEE
Arizona -> DE Brooks Reed
...

did you just miss out on all the recent additions? Out of that list, only like 2 teams stayed relatively same (Falcons, Minny, Seahawks)
NFC is going to be a blood bath
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,504
Have they though?

The Eagles only get better by virtue of Wentz hopefully being 100% next year
Dallas did nothing in FA and don’t have a 1st round pick
Atlanta did nothing in FA
Carolina did nothing and Cam might not be 100%
Minnesota has the same core roster
Detroit overpaid to downgrade
Chicago did nothing notable and don’t have a 1st round pick
Seattle bled players
LA made some changes but didn’t really get better, and they may permanently lose Gurley to arthritic knees
San Fran didn’t do much other than hopefully have Jimmy back for week 1, but that’s still a 4-12 team otherwise.

The only team in the NFC that actually genuinely improved was the Packers. The Saints are still the favorites as long as Brees’ arm doesn’t give out imo. Granted the Saints haven’t done anything to improve and don’t have a 1st round pick, but they really didn’t need to make a whole lot of changes.
Maybe I'm biased, but I think the Eagles got better. They aren't huge signings, but Malik Jackson and DJax were good pickups. Last year we really had no one next to Cox since Timmy Jernigan got injured. And in addition to Wentz' injuries and the rest of the team being on IR, the offense was really hurt by the lack of a deep threat. Despite Torrey Smith not being productive, he still forced defenses to respect his speed, and it opened things up. Wallace was supposed to be that but immediately got injured. DJax isn't prime DJax anymore, and I doubt he even hits his 2018 numbers this year, but having a deep threat again will really help the offense. Just need a RB
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,558
NJ
Eagles restructured Chris Long and Nigel Bradham to free up another $5m of cap space for this year. The interesting thing here is that a beat writer for the Eagles said this means Chris Long is coming back since it wasn't clear if Chris Long was retiring or coming back.

Chris Long responded to the beat writer on twitter and basically said this doesn't guarantee or necessarily mean he is back for 2019. Odd. Why are the Eagles restructuring him if he isn't sure he is back?

Also an unsubstantiated report on Twitter from a former Panthers DE, Antwan Odom, that Darby has agreed to a 1 yr $8m deal but they haven't announced it yet. Also odd since I thought he could get far more or more yrs at least elsewhere.

Not sure what to believe.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,504
Eagles restructured Chris Long and Nigel Bradham to free up another $5m of cap space for this year. The interesting thing here is that a beat writer for the Eagles said this means Chris Long is coming back since it wasn't clear if Chris Long was retiring or coming back.

Chris Long responded to the beat writer on twitter and basically said this doesn't guarantee or necessarily mean he is back for 2019. Odd. Why are the Eagles restructuring him if he isn't sure he is back?

Also an unsubstantiated report on Twitter from a former Panthers DE, Antwan Odom, that Darby has agreed to a 1 yr $8m deal but they haven't announced it yet. Also odd since I thought he could get far more or more yrs at least elsewhere.

Not sure what to believe.
I think the Eagles restructured to try to convince him to come back. Probably gave him more guarantees. He's making a football decision, if he gets an extra $1-2M out of it maybe that convinces him to play for another year

As for Darby, in a vacuum it's a good deal, just kinda seems like a waste. Rasul was coming along very nicely, and between Maddox, Sidney Jones, and Mills, one of the 3 of them should be given the chance to win the other job. Same with Maddox, Sidney Jones, and LeBlanc in the slot. Plus, having a subpar CB room isn't the worst thing since the most important part of football is winning the division. The NFC East WR rooms are pretty terrible. There's Coop and Tate, and that's it. Not exactly huge threats

I wonder what Howie is making room for though
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,558
NJ
I think the Eagles restructured to try to convince him to come back. Probably gave him more guarantees. He's making a football decision, if he gets an extra $1-2M out of it maybe that convinces him to play for another year

As for Darby, in a vacuum it's a good deal, just kinda seems like a waste. Rasul was coming along very nicely, and between Maddox, Sidney Jones, and Mills, one of the 3 of them should be given the chance to win the other job. Same with Maddox, Sidney Jones, and LeBlanc in the slot. Plus, having a subpar CB room isn't the worst thing since the most important part of football is winning the division. The NFC East WR rooms are pretty terrible. There's Coop and Tate, and that's it. Not exactly huge threats

I wonder what Howie is making room for though
But we also pretty much the entire secondary get hurt and miss significant time if not the entire season. They also are super thin at LB by design due to how much dime and nickel they play. So you need the corners.

Yes, I love the youth, the way they played at the end, but largely it is still an unproven group. Sidney Jones has been hurt a lot and yet to prove his hype out of college. Mills was just ok even when healthy and now he is coming back from injury. I'd be ok with him coming back on this kind of deal if it is true. Its a prove it deal after his injury and he's still super young.

Here is Jeff Mclane clearing up the Chris Long situation:
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,558
NJ
You're proving my point. WR are dependent on a QB. Manning Rodgers Brady Brees will all produce with merely good and sometimes averege WR.. It's not a position to pay top dollar at. Name the Top top 10 WR's you have actually seen play in your life. Name the QB's. Count the SB's..yeah it isn't even close. Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Pey Pey Ben have 12 alone...you are probably counting to zero on WR unless you are counting Jerry Rice Michael Irving in the no cap era...
Maybe I am not wording it right. Yes, you don't need the top WR in the game to win an SB but my point is that they don't also cost you a championship.

The Pats didn't lose the SB cause Moss cost them the SB. Or Brandin Cooks 2 yrs ago. Is Julio Jones to blame for the Falcons loss? Yes, its all QB driven or dependent but a top WR isn't costing you a run at the SB. He can be the reason you get there.

TO helped the Eagles finally get to one in 2004. They lost but they didn't lose cause TO didn't show up or cost them the SB

The Giants won with Plaxico who at his peak was a top 10 WR. Eagles won with Alshon. Peyton, his first time around, had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. 2nd time around had Thomas.

Either way, your QB either has to be elite like Brady or Rodgers to overcome all other deficiencies and win with average to good WRs or you need to be dominant in some other area(s) like when Seattle won.

This whole thing stemmed from OBJ. If they are rebuilding I much rather keep a 26 yr old WR who is a top 5 weapon in the game for whichever new rookie QB I bring in so he has something to work with.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,379
That Funchess contract is actually pretty good. 7 million roster bonus + 3 million in incentives. Not the original 13 million that was floating around.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,824
Maybe I am not wording it right. Yes, you don't need the top WR in the game to win an SB but my point is that they don't also cost you a championship.

The Pats didn't lose the SB cause Moss cost them the SB. Or Brandin Cooks 2 yrs ago. Is Julio Jones to blame for the Falcons loss? Yes, its all QB driven or dependent but a top WR isn't costing you a run at the SB. He can be the reason you get there.

TO helped the Eagles finally get to one in 2004. They lost but they didn't lose cause TO didn't show up or cost them the SB

The Giants won with Plaxico who at his peak was a top 10 WR. Eagles won with Alshon. Peyton, his first time around, had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. 2nd time around had Thomas.

Either way, your QB either has to be elite like Brady or Rodgers to overcome all other deficiencies and win with average to good WRs or you need to be dominant in some other area(s) like when Seattle won.

This whole thing stemmed from OBJ. If they are rebuilding I much rather keep a 26 yr old WR who is a top 5 weapon in the game for whichever new rookie QB I bring in so he has something to work with.
If you spend all that money on a WR you aren't spending on more important things like Oline D line secondary which are all more important than a WR corp. Edelman got paid 2 million and was SB MVP... Do the math.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,558
NJ
If you spend all that money on a WR you aren't spending on more important things like Oline D line secondary which are all more important than a WR corp. Edelman got paid 2 million and was SB MVP... Do the math.
So the Pats lost with Moss cause they were paying him too much?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,504
If you spend all that money on a WR you aren't spending on more important things like Oline D line secondary which are all more important than a WR corp. Edelman got paid 2 million and was SB MVP... Do the math.
Now I'm actually curious about what positions a team can pay elite money to and still win a SB. Because you think back to the last several seasons, and it's not even the QBs getting paid the elite money. Hell, the top 5 paid QBs this year had an overall losing record and none of them made the playoffs. Brady is on a league average contract for a QB, Foles was a cheap backup and Wentz was on a rookie deal, same with Flacco and Wilson. The only QBs in recent years to win a SB on top contracts are the Mannings in 2011 and 2015. I'm wondering about DL too since none of the Pats players are paid a ton on the line, and Cox was the most expensive Eagle but the big parts of his contract don't even start until the next 2 years. I guess the Pats won paying Gilmore elite CB money and the Eagles won playing Lane Johnson elite OL money. I'd like to see someone like 538 do a deep dive on this
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,792
bEast Coast
O-line (removes your need for an elite RB, gives your QB a chance)
Qb (removes your need for elites WRs)
CBs (bend don’t break)
D-line and LB (front pressure)

Money in that order, rest on scrub contracts. Paying RBs and Receivers are what Lions, Browns and Jets do
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
1,751
New Jersey
Eagles got better yes, picked up some good people. Still have FA RB's they can sign back like
Atlanta -> u right.
Carolina added C Matt Paradis -> That's a great signing, if Cam is healthy this season, they are contenders. Re-signed keep players on D
Minnesota -> u right.
Detroit -> DE Trey Flowers -> upgrade no matter what. CB Justin Coleman -> Upgrade . WR - Danny A (not sure..).
Chicago -> S Ha Ha Clinton-Dix -> D JUST GOT A UPGRADE!!!!!!! How is that not notable???!
Seahawks -> OLB K.J. Wright -> Upgrade
49ers -> CB Jason Verrett, RB Tevin Coleman, LB Kwon Alexander -> UPGRADESSSSS
Packers -> Amos, Smith -> UPGRADEEEEEEE
Arizona -> DE Brooks Reed
...

did you just miss out on all the recent additions? Out of that list, only like 2 teams stayed relatively same (Falcons, Minny, Seahawks)
NFC is going to be a blood bath
-The Eagles swapped Bennett for Malik, lost Jordan Hicks and gained DJax. That’s mostly a wash, if not the slightest of roster upgrades.
-Matt Paradis isn’t as good as people think he is. If he was, his offensive lines would’nt be as consistently bad as they are. He’s not a significant upgrade over (a healthy) Ryan Kalil.
-Detroit SEVERELY downgraded from Ansah to Flowers. I don’t know how else to put this unless you’re factoring in Ziggy’s injury history. But that’s a straight up downgrade and the millionth time someone will overpay for a Pats role player that isn’t capable of being a star.
-Chicago downgrades from Amos to Clinton-Dix. Idk how else to put that other than there’s a reason Amos got paid like a star and Clinton-Dix got paid like a backup.
-Seahawks resigned KJ Wright, that wasn’t an addition. And they lost ET3 who’s a minimum 50x more valuable lol.
-Niners did upgrade, I forgot about Kwon. Still, they’re relying on too guys coming off injury as a whole and have a core team that wasn’t competitive last year.

Arizona is not a competitive team.

Like I said, Packers definitely upgraded. But that’s the only NFC team that I feel got SIGNIFICANTLY better through Free Agency. There’s still plenty of time to make moves through the draft and trades though. I’d still definitely be picking the Saints as the clear favorite in the conference though. The Rams are on equal footing with a healthy Gurley but everybody else is pretty far behind IMO.

Maybe I'm biased, but I think the Eagles got better. They aren't huge signings, but Malik Jackson and DJax were good pickups. Last year we really had no one next to Cox since Timmy Jernigan got injured. And in addition to Wentz' injuries and the rest of the team being on IR, the offense was really hurt by the lack of a deep threat. Despite Torrey Smith not being productive, he still forced defenses to respect his speed, and it opened things up. Wallace was supposed to be that but immediately got injured. DJax isn't prime DJax anymore, and I doubt he even hits his 2018 numbers this year, but having a deep threat again will really help the offense. Just need a RB
You basically swapped Malik Jackson for Bennett. I’d say that’s a wash at best, although I’d rather have Bennett. He’d never give up midway through a season the way Malik did. Although with how deep this draft is for edge rushers, Bennett might be easier to replace than a pure interior guy.

And I’m not totally convinced DJax is really the right fit for Wentz and that offense. Maybe it’s just because he hasn’t had a “true” deep threat, but Wentz doesn’t throw the prettiest deep ball. Maybe I’m just tricked by Alshon being his “deep” guy and dude is ALWAYS unnecssarily jumping out of the roof for balls he should be able to grab in stride, but it’s just part of his game I haven’t seen I guess. And I’ll always be skeptical about a guy who’s 30+ and only had speed to his name his whole career. He has to eventually lose a step. But you’re right, it could just be a matter of having the threat and not totally about production.

His production also fell off heavily after Tampa’s bye week last year which made me feel like he just can’t keep it going for a whole season. But that could’ve been a byproduct of going back to Jameis. To me he’s just a huge one dimensional “if” right now.

Plus I think losing Hicks on D is a bigger deal than gaining DJax. I know he’s been injury prone and missed that entire 2017 SB run, but he’s young and just about to come into his prime. I think Arizona got a steal getting him for half the price of CJ Mosley.