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redbomb6

Member
Sep 22, 2021
840
First post here. I wanted to talk about Ni No Kuni in relation to one of the few game franchises I've been a part of since the beginning in Pokémon. I made a short TLDR at the bottom since this is a long post.

Ni No Kuni was recently on sale on the PSN store, so I picked it up and am now a dozen or so hours in. While it has its flaws, I believe that it provides a solid blueprint for how I think Pokémon as a series can evolve. To do so, I want to go over Ni No Kuni and what makes it a great game.

What makes Ni No Kuni special

First off, I actually played Ni No Kuni 2 when it came out a few years ago not knowing anything about the first game just cause I liked how it looked in a preview. I enjoyed that game quite a bit and learned more about the first game afterwards. I knew it was a monster catching game, but I didn't know much else about it besides that point. Cut to a couple weeks ago where I got the original game on sale and finally experienced it for the first time.

Ni No Kuni is a slow burn of a game evident from the long intro and how slowly the mechanics are rolled out. It's both a good and bad thing as the amount of mechanics the game has can be overwhelming if done all at once, but it also takes hours for you to finally experience what the game offers. The bright side of it being a slower start is that it focuses a lot on world building and immediately tries to make you care about its characters as a good RPG should do. The amazing art style holds up and complements the storytelling quite well too even for a game that technically came out in the ps3 era. The world is already compelling from the jump.

When you finally get a chance to explore the world, it feels great to not have random encounters and I appreciate the fact that the monsters have a variety of behaviours in how they react to you in the over world. Some beeline it towards you at a dodge-able angle, while others simply chase you around with varying speeds. At a certain point, they will eventually flee from your presence based on your strength. While these are simple, they help make the world feel alive. It also feeds into their quest system in that the world offers challenge fights for rewards and resources you can gather to complete errands that provide you with rewards and tools to improve your adventuring.

As for the encounters themselves, it plays more like a kingdom hearts or ff7r (can't remember the name of that type of combat) rather than a traditional turn based game. It's fine as is, but it's a bit janky at times with how the cooldown and cast times are in the game. I'm still early in the game, but it's also difficult to know what enemies are weak to without resorting to consulting the in game encyclopedia and can be annoying at times. Battle information in general is not great. At the end of the day, it's fun enough for me even if I have issues.

Lastly, the monster catching element is quite unique. You cannot catch a monster at this point in the game without luck. You simply fight and wait until one of the monsters is susceptible to being caught which seemingly happens at random. Speaking of which, catching monsters is like 6-8 hours into the game which is kind of crazy. It's cool though how levels and evolution work. Your familiars earn their abilities up until a certain level in their current evolution form and cannot learn more until you evolve them. Evolving them resets their level and thus lowers their stats, but it starts them off at higher base stats so they'll eventually surpass their pre evolved versions. I like their take on the genre quite a bit. I also found out that their 3rd evolution is a branch so you can choose their last form which is pretty cool.

Overall, my time with Ni No Kuni so far has made me realize what exactly I want for Pokémon as a franchise going forward.

What can Pokémon games take away from a game like Ni No Kuni

As for Pokémon, I greatly enjoyed Pokémon Legends Arceus earlier this year. It had its flaws, but it's most time I've spent playing a Pokémon game in a very long time. I typically play a Pokémon game until I catch the post game legendaries. PLA made me want to actually complete my journal and gave me an excuse to catch more than 1 of each Pokémon to gain research points. It was refreshing even if the battles were markedly worse in some ways.

From playing Ni No Kuni, I've realized that what Pokémon needs is more world building. The problem with the traditional formula was how every game started to feel the same with how the plot was pretty simple in how you went about getting badges, stopping the evil organization and beating the elite 4 or elite 4 equivalent. In theory, this is actually perfectly fine. The problem is how we get from point A to point B.

In Ni No Kuni, you get to a town and you kind of do what you can to complete your task in that town while helping those in need along the way. This makes the experience of visiting a town feel worthwhile. They each have their own story to tell and each of its inhabitants have their own lives and stories. The errands, while sometimes a bit basic or can be an annoying fetch quest, flesh out the characters that you meet in each town and gives them a unique identity. They also give you an excuse to revisit old locations compounded with a metroidvania element of creating barriers for places you've been before where you can later come back once you've acquired the tool to access those areas or rewards.

In PLA, there are these sort of side quests too, but the problem with those is that they typically do not push you to explore the world. Every side quest is pretty much from the hub world. You cannot get quests anywhere else. Ni No Kuni quests are also pretty much just in the towns so far, but at least you're not just in one hub world the entire time. In the traditional games, there are very few reasons to ever go revisit old areas unless you want to catch a Pokémon in that area. It feels like a waste to create all these locales and not have players spend ample time in each of them. It sours me in bothering to talk to all the NPCs in towns too unlike how I play other RPGs where I do try to talk to everyone.

I believe that Game Freak can make an amazing Pokémon game simply by letting players experience more of the world they've already built. In many ways, the human characters in these games are merely hollow vessels in your journey to become the champion. The Pokémon themselves are the main characters with the people being afterthoughts. Make quest lines for each town besides just beating the gym leader instead of what they do now. In sword and shield for example, you would meet the gym leader shortly before you enter their city either involving the evil organization or some other random event. You maybe do a battle then that's pretty much it. You go to the gym and do their challenge and beat their team. It feels underdeveloped.

Imagine this instead. You enter a town and see that the gym is closed temporarily. Apparently, some Pokémon nearby are causing a raucous and the gym leader was called in to stop that Pokémon. You end up doing a series of battles against a bunch of wild Pokémon with the help of the gym leader. The gym leader is suddenly attacked by the leader of the wild Pokémon by surprise and is out of commission. You realize you need to beat this Pokémon who happens to be a low level version of an evolved Pokémon that you typically would never see in the wild at this point in the game (kind of like a totem Pokémon or the super powered Pokémon in PLA). You beat the leader of the wild Pokémon and find out that they were acting up because construction nearby started affecting their habitat. You end up working with the gym leader to make changes to the construction and help rebuild their habitat. After all this, you challenge them to that gym battle and get your badge. Basically, I want them to make it feel like an adventure out of the anime rather than just a task to do.

Along the way, there could also be side quests with the people in town. Instead of those trade spots with local trainers, maybe a kid wants to see a rare Pokémon that you need to catch or an up and coming trainer wants to watch you battle using a particular move. I think that this is what's missing from the major step that PLA made to improve upon the traditional formula.

Ultimately, I'm enjoying Ni No Kuni even if it doesn't have some of the elements I enjoy in Pokémon, but at the same time, it provides a foundation for what I believe Pokémon can strive to become.

Summary

TLDR: Ni No Kuni is a breath of fresh air in the monster capture genre even with some hiccups. It provides a direction on how future games of the genre should evolve. With regards to Pokémon, it should build its world and lore more by implementing more quest lines and side stories along the way to becoming the champion to make the world feel more alive and make players feel more invested in its characters rather than just the Pokémon.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
I'm sorry but I don't agree at all. I tried to play Ni No Nuki for the first time last year and I couldn't even finish it because of the terrible boredom it was in terms of plot and combat. A nice presentation changes nothing.
 
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OP
redbomb6

redbomb6

Member
Sep 22, 2021
840
I'm sorry but I don't agree at all. I tried to play Ni No Nuki for the first time last year and I couldn't even finish it because of the terrible boredom it was in terms of plot and combat. A nice presentation changes nothing.

Yeah I did mention how the slow burn was a downside of the game. It's really slow but the ideas are solid. They just need to streamline it better. I also heard it gets grindy which I also dislike.
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,964
I actually enjoyed the original Ni No Kuni far more than the second. I didn't like how the second game shoe-horned RTS and simulation modes in when all I wanted was a JRPG.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
Yeah I did mention how the slow burn was a downside of the game. It's really slow but the ideas are solid. They just need to streamline it better. I also heard it gets grindy which I also dislike.
The problem is that those ideas are the problem. The presentation, plot, combat and grind are sloooooow. It's a slow and boring experience. It would be absolutely miserable for me to have a Pokémon game made with the Level-5 philosophy, all their games are: Beautiful presentation and everything else is bad. (well, Layton is good, it is the exception)
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,482
So basically you just want Pokemon to act more like a traditional JRPG in terms of scenarios where new towns will have their own meaty vignettes like DQ.

Ni No Kuni with it's awful battle system and plot that falls off a cliff is kind of a weird point of comparison lol
 
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OP
redbomb6

redbomb6

Member
Sep 22, 2021
840
So basically you just want Pokemon to act more like a traditional JRPG.

Ni No Kuni with it's awful battle system and plot that falls off a cliff is kind of a weird point of comparison lol
Sort of. The plot is actually irrelevant to me. I merely was more fascinated by the world building as the story is by the numbers in many ways. I also much prefer Pokémon battle system and never wanted that to be taken away.

Isn't Pokémon Legends Arceus more like a traditional JRPG as well? I'm sort of just saying they should lean more into it.
 

bunikerrim

Member
Oct 3, 2019
173
I liked Ni No Kuni the first time I played it but couldn't finish 2 and stopped re-playing the first one after the first 3 hours out of boredom. It was a nice "Ghibli" experience but I don't really think that it does anything else good. SMT shows a better way for Pokemon to evolve, having a massive compendium of monsters used for different styles and genres of games while mantaining the mainline as the core experience
 

Caesar III

Member
Jan 3, 2018
920
I actually enjoyed the original Ni No Kuni far more than the second. I didn't like how the second game shoe-horned RTS and simulation modes in when all I wanted was a JRPG.
I don't like RPGs normally but I play them here and there nontheless though. With that said I really was disappointed in the second game. Can't really put my finger on why exactly but it felt off. I loved the first one but never actually finished it - was too weak (no more grinding, it annoyed me to death then) for the last boss.

I'm not sure if I can even revisit part two.

Pokemon Arceus was a great refresher for pokemon though. It was lacking a lot in comparison with other games similar to it but it was a nice game from a Pokemon standpoint. I could not get in any pokemon game before. They are pure boredom and always the same lol.
 

Jencks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,451
Mediocre ass game carried almost entirely by its presentation, in typical Level-5 fashion.
 

lucablight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
Level 5 are the king of beautiful looking games with mediocre gameplay. If there's one developer Gamefreak shouldn't be taking inspiration from its level 5.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,497
Spain
Mediocre ass game carried almost entirely by its presentation, in typical Level-5 fashion.
It's crazy how much that system has served them until it collapsed. If you ask me what I think of the gameplay of for example Jeanne D'arc, LBX, Ni No Kuni, Yo-Kai Watch... They have always been games with mediocre gameplay but perfectly presented.
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,831
I don't know about mechanically but I would certainly play a Pokemon that looked like NNK
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,324
It sounds to me like you're a Ni No Kuni 2 fan. Pokémon's formula is tried & true and works well because it's intended age range is super wide and also (keep in mind I love the franchise so I'm not downplaying it when I say) it's a mass appeal game for people who barely play games as well. Pokémon is great because the objective is "build your own personal team of six monsters" and people are given very simple freedom to make it as personally perfect as they want. It not evolving into other games is part of the appeal.
 

EdgeWilder

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
867
It's crazy how much that system has served them until it collapsed. If you ask me what I think of the gameplay of for example Jeanne D'arc, LBX, Ni No Kuni, Yo-Kai Watch... They have always been games with mediocre gameplay but perfectly presented.
I had soo much hope for LBX.... also still waiting on that damn inazuma 11 game...
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,884
I'm just glad this thread isn't about the combat

Ni no Kuni had pretty boring combat. Pokemon has a good system (at least until Legends fucked it up) they just need to do more with it instead of expecting players to steamroll almost everything. Double battles should be used more.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,526
Dear god, no. The combat in Ni No Kuni is awful.

The story also completely falls off a cliff. GF absolutely shouldn't be looking to Level 5 for anything.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,583
Legends arceus is better than any ni no kuni game
omg no lol. Years from now, I'll still be blown away that people were so enamoured with Arceus. Boring, ugly, repetitive game. I feel like 80% of its success was due to Pokemon fans being thirsty for literally anything beyond the standard formula
 

Dogo Mojo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,158
Really the only thing I strongly dislike about Ni No Kuni is the ending, even today it is still one of the most disappointing endings in video games to me, everything else I either enjoyed or loved. The seeming death of Level 5 is really depressing.
 

HotSauceMaven

Member
Oct 9, 2018
237
Anime-stylized JRPGS are a dime a dozen and, unfortunately, Ni No Kuni is no different. I do appreciate the effort OP.
 

Electricb7

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,313
NinoKuni 2 was one of my big disappointments from last gen. Instead of improving on the Familiars they just remove them from the game for an even more average and baby easy experience. I liked the first game a lot and I understand why people dont really care for it but it showed so much promise. NinoKuni 2 went in the wrong directions and its a shame.
Such a disappointment.
 

Diogo Arez

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 20, 2020
17,625
If Pokémon adopted the gameplay style of Ni No Kuni I would like the games way more tbh
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
I can't think of a single thing I'd want Pokémon to learn from Ni no Kuni or any other Level 5 game.

Though now I'm reminded of the weird-as-hell Dexit crowd that took one look at YW4 pre-release and thought it would eat Sword/Shield's lunch. That sure didn't happen.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,667
NNK game mechanics, especially for NNK2, are very shallow compared to Pokemon, which has iterated its gameplay to a polish.

NNK & NNK2 are nice games in terms of aesthetic, but offer little beyond.

If we want to talk about a Level-5 property which did prompt a response from Pokemon, it would be Yo-kai Watch.
 

riq

Member
Feb 21, 2019
1,687
The monster designs, visuals and music carry Ni No Kuni.

The combat is just incredibly awful though. I also don't care much for the sidequest structure. BotW is a much better example, and Arceus itself seems to have learned something from it.

Honestly, as barebones as the campaigns in Pokemon are, I don't think the structure is the problem. The issues with Pokemon lie much more in difficulty and removing options just cause. Plot is also bad but I don't care too much for it.
 

diakyu

Member
Dec 15, 2018
17,525
Though now I'm reminded of the weird-as-hell Dexit crowd that took one look at YW4 pre-release and thought it would eat Sword/Shield's lunch. That sure didn't happen.
Because the game came out and ran at sub 20 fps a lot of the time, and even at its best ran a nice 25 fps. Suddenly didn't work as well for their arguments lol
 

Fnnrqwin

Member
Sep 19, 2019
2,297
I was so sad I missed Ni no Kuni on the PS3. After I got a PS4 I knew I needed to get the remaster. I was so excited, it was like a white whale of mine.

Then I put like 8 of the slowest hours of my adult life into it and never touched it again.

The Pokémon games need a lot of improvement, but I'm not sure there's anything for them to really get from this.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,680
England
I like the idea of having the team out in front of you taking commands, but I'd like it to be all free flowing FFXII gambit style, no pausing for battle to start and end, no turns.
 

HeRinger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,302
Kinda disagree that Ni No Kuni has terrible gameplay.

It's a traditional JRPG with rewarding progress structure and customization, decent side quests and a combat system that is more interesting than any combat scenario Pokémon games usually throw at you in their campaigns. See, Pokémon games have incredibly deep combat systems, but they are only ever explored in multi player and some cases in the post game. In the actual 40~60 hours single player campaign? It's terrible, because the story part is designed to be mindless and approachable to children.

Now, the combat system in Ni No Kuni is pretty flawed, especially because of it's AI, but at least it tries something new and it offers some good challenge quite frequently, and that challenge CAN be overcomed by straight up playing better.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,021
It's crazy how much that system has served them until it collapsed. If you ask me what I think of the gameplay of for example Jeanne D'arc, LBX, Ni No Kuni, Yo-Kai Watch... They have always been games with mediocre gameplay but perfectly presented.
I'll agree with the later ones, but Jeanne is a great SRPG. I've honestly never heard of people having issues with the gameplay before.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,181
Level 5 are the king of beautiful looking games with mediocre gameplay. If there's one developer Gamefreak shouldn't be taking inspiration from its level 5.
Rminds me about how despite all the talk about Gamefreak being "greedy" with the two version at least they never pulled a third version 5 months after the original
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,216
I can't think of a single thing I'd want Pokémon to learn from Ni no Kuni or any other Level 5 game.

Though now I'm reminded of the weird-as-hell Dexit crowd that took one look at YW4 pre-release and thought it would eat Sword/Shield's lunch. That sure didn't happen.

Because the game came out and ran at sub 20 fps a lot of the time, and even at its best ran a nice 25 fps. Suddenly didn't work as well for their arguments lol
Yo-Kai Watch 4 also had a massive roster cut, just like Pokemon SwSh, sporting even a smaller number of Yo-Kai than the first game, so not even Yo-Kai Watch fans were happy.
 

Crissaegrim

Member
May 23, 2018
1,013
I loved NNK when it came out. I got the platinum trophy for it. I never critisized it for its easy gameplay because its a game clearly marketed towards kids, and as an adult that was fine. Not every game I play has to have challenging difficulty, it wouldn't have made me enjoy it more. I enjoyed everything about it.

I never played NNK2 because they changed everything about what I liked about the first, from no Ghibli, no Joe Hisaishi soundtrack, different gameplay, forced RTS crap, no more monster collect-a-thon etc....such a shame.
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
13,329
I really have a soft spot for the NNK games and I liked them. However...no.
 

Stencil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,373
USA
First post here. I wanted to talk about Ni No Kuni in relation to one of the few game franchises I've been a part of since the beginning in Pokémon. I made a short TLDR at the bottom since this is a long post.

Ni No Kuni was recently on sale on the PSN store, so I picked it up and am now a dozen or so hours in. While it has its flaws, I believe that it provides a solid blueprint for how I think Pokémon as a series can evolve. To do so, I want to go over Ni No Kuni and what makes it a great game.

What makes Ni No Kuni special

First off, I actually played Ni No Kuni 2 when it came out a few years ago not knowing anything about the first game just cause I liked how it looked in a preview. I enjoyed that game quite a bit and learned more about the first game afterwards. I knew it was a monster catching game, but I didn't know much else about it besides that point. Cut to a couple weeks ago where I got the original game on sale and finally experienced it for the first time.

Ni No Kuni is a slow burn of a game evident from the long intro and how slowly the mechanics are rolled out. It's both a good and bad thing as the amount of mechanics the game has can be overwhelming if done all at once, but it also takes hours for you to finally experience what the game offers. The bright side of it being a slower start is that it focuses a lot on world building and immediately tries to make you care about its characters as a good RPG should do. The amazing art style holds up and complements the storytelling quite well too even for a game that technically came out in the ps3 era. The world is already compelling from the jump.

When you finally get a chance to explore the world, it feels great to not have random encounters and I appreciate the fact that the monsters have a variety of behaviours in how they react to you in the over world. Some beeline it towards you at a dodge-able angle, while others simply chase you around with varying speeds. At a certain point, they will eventually flee from your presence based on your strength. While these are simple, they help make the world feel alive. It also feeds into their quest system in that the world offers challenge fights for rewards and resources you can gather to complete errands that provide you with rewards and tools to improve your adventuring.

As for the encounters themselves, it plays more like a kingdom hearts or ff7r (can't remember the name of that type of combat) rather than a traditional turn based game. It's fine as is, but it's a bit janky at times with how the cooldown and cast times are in the game. I'm still early in the game, but it's also difficult to know what enemies are weak to without resorting to consulting the in game encyclopedia and can be annoying at times. Battle information in general is not great. At the end of the day, it's fun enough for me even if I have issues.

Lastly, the monster catching element is quite unique. You cannot catch a monster at this point in the game without luck. You simply fight and wait until one of the monsters is susceptible to being caught which seemingly happens at random. Speaking of which, catching monsters is like 6-8 hours into the game which is kind of crazy. It's cool though how levels and evolution work. Your familiars earn their abilities up until a certain level in their current evolution form and cannot learn more until you evolve them. Evolving them resets their level and thus lowers their stats, but it starts them off at higher base stats so they'll eventually surpass their pre evolved versions. I like their take on the genre quite a bit. I also found out that their 3rd evolution is a branch so you can choose their last form which is pretty cool.

Overall, my time with Ni No Kuni so far has made me realize what exactly I want for Pokémon as a franchise going forward.

What can Pokémon games take away from a game like Ni No Kuni

As for Pokémon, I greatly enjoyed Pokémon Legends Arceus earlier this year. It had its flaws, but it's most time I've spent playing a Pokémon game in a very long time. I typically play a Pokémon game until I catch the post game legendaries. PLA made me want to actually complete my journal and gave me an excuse to catch more than 1 of each Pokémon to gain research points. It was refreshing even if the battles were markedly worse in some ways.

From playing Ni No Kuni, I've realized that what Pokémon needs is more world building. The problem with the traditional formula was how every game started to feel the same with how the plot was pretty simple in how you went about getting badges, stopping the evil organization and beating the elite 4 or elite 4 equivalent. In theory, this is actually perfectly fine. The problem is how we get from point A to point B.

In Ni No Kuni, you get to a town and you kind of do what you can to complete your task in that town while helping those in need along the way. This makes the experience of visiting a town feel worthwhile. They each have their own story to tell and each of its inhabitants have their own lives and stories. The errands, while sometimes a bit basic or can be an annoying fetch quest, flesh out the characters that you meet in each town and gives them a unique identity. They also give you an excuse to revisit old locations compounded with a metroidvania element of creating barriers for places you've been before where you can later come back once you've acquired the tool to access those areas or rewards.

In PLA, there are these sort of side quests too, but the problem with those is that they typically do not push you to explore the world. Every side quest is pretty much from the hub world. You cannot get quests anywhere else. Ni No Kuni quests are also pretty much just in the towns so far, but at least you're not just in one hub world the entire time. In the traditional games, there are very few reasons to ever go revisit old areas unless you want to catch a Pokémon in that area. It feels like a waste to create all these locales and not have players spend ample time in each of them. It sours me in bothering to talk to all the NPCs in towns too unlike how I play other RPGs where I do try to talk to everyone.

I believe that Game Freak can make an amazing Pokémon game simply by letting players experience more of the world they've already built. In many ways, the human characters in these games are merely hollow vessels in your journey to become the champion. The Pokémon themselves are the main characters with the people being afterthoughts. Make quest lines for each town besides just beating the gym leader instead of what they do now. In sword and shield for example, you would meet the gym leader shortly before you enter their city either involving the evil organization or some other random event. You maybe do a battle then that's pretty much it. You go to the gym and do their challenge and beat their team. It feels underdeveloped.

Imagine this instead. You enter a town and see that the gym is closed temporarily. Apparently, some Pokémon nearby are causing a raucous and the gym leader was called in to stop that Pokémon. You end up doing a series of battles against a bunch of wild Pokémon with the help of the gym leader. The gym leader is suddenly attacked by the leader of the wild Pokémon by surprise and is out of commission. You realize you need to beat this Pokémon who happens to be a low level version of an evolved Pokémon that you typically would never see in the wild at this point in the game (kind of like a totem Pokémon or the super powered Pokémon in PLA). You beat the leader of the wild Pokémon and find out that they were acting up because construction nearby started affecting their habitat. You end up working with the gym leader to make changes to the construction and help rebuild their habitat. After all this, you challenge them to that gym battle and get your badge. Basically, I want them to make it feel like an adventure out of the anime rather than just a task to do.

Along the way, there could also be side quests with the people in town. Instead of those trade spots with local trainers, maybe a kid wants to see a rare Pokémon that you need to catch or an up and coming trainer wants to watch you battle using a particular move. I think that this is what's missing from the major step that PLA made to improve upon the traditional formula.

Ultimately, I'm enjoying Ni No Kuni even if it doesn't have some of the elements I enjoy in Pokémon, but at the same time, it provides a foundation for what I believe Pokémon can strive to become.

Summary

TLDR: Ni No Kuni is a breath of fresh air in the monster capture genre even with some hiccups. It provides a direction on how future games of the genre should evolve. With regards to Pokémon, it should build its world and lore more by implementing more quest lines and side stories along the way to becoming the champion to make the world feel more alive and make players feel more invested in its characters rather than just the Pokémon.
Great writeup, OP. I agree on all points. Not not necessarily to the letter, but in essence what you're saying I agree with. I'd love if Pokemon took any kind of advice from games outside their own franchise. PLA was a great stride forward but it still leaves a lot to desire.

I loved Ni No Kuni, it was such a compelling journey. NNK2 was... very underwhelming but the first one hit the spot for me. I know I may be in the minority though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,706
I believe that Game Freak can make an amazing Pokémon game simply by letting players experience more of the world they've already built. In many ways, the human characters in these games are merely hollow vessels in your journey to become the champion. The Pokémon themselves are the main characters with the people being afterthoughts. Make quest lines for each town besides just beating the gym leader instead of what they do now. In sword and shield for example, you would meet the gym leader shortly before you enter their city either involving the evil organization or some other random event. You maybe do a battle then that's pretty much it. You go to the gym and do their challenge and beat their team. It feels underdeveloped.

Imagine this instead. You enter a town and see that the gym is closed temporarily. Apparently, some Pokémon nearby are causing a raucous and the gym leader was called in to stop that Pokémon. You end up doing a series of battles against a bunch of wild Pokémon with the help of the gym leader. The gym leader is suddenly attacked by the leader of the wild Pokémon by surprise and is out of commission. You realize you need to beat this Pokémon who happens to be a low level version of an evolved Pokémon that you typically would never see in the wild at this point in the game (kind of like a totem Pokémon or the super powered Pokémon in PLA). You beat the leader of the wild Pokémon and find out that they were acting up because construction nearby started affecting their habitat. You end up working with the gym leader to make changes to the construction and help rebuild their habitat. After all this, you challenge them to that gym battle and get your badge. Basically, I want them to make it feel like an adventure out of the anime rather than just a task to do.

Along the way, there could also be side quests with the people in town. Instead of those trade spots with local trainers, maybe a kid wants to see a rare Pokémon that you need to catch or an up and coming trainer wants to watch you battle using a particular move. I think that this is what's missing from the major step that PLA made to improve upon the traditional formula.

Um...yes please. Even if it's a spinoff, having a more character focused RPG with the Pokemon formula would be great. I loved Ni No Kuni (yes even despite its flaws) and for sure think that having locations like Ding Dong Dell in a Pokemon world would be cool to interact with and make me actually care more about anything outside of catching Pokemon.
 
OP
OP
redbomb6

redbomb6

Member
Sep 22, 2021
840
Um...yes please. Even if it's a spinoff, having a more character focused RPG with the Pokemon formula would be great. I loved Ni No Kuni (yes even despite its flaws) and for sure think that having locations like Ding Dong Dell in a Pokemon world would be cool to interact with and make me actually care more about anything outside of catching Pokemon.

Honestly, this part was personally what I wanted people to take away from my post. Pokémon will always be easy going forward since they want to cater to their younger audience. My suggestion is merely improving immersion. Sure I have some ideas to spruce up the battle systems and all that, but those will always be hard to tinker with in a way that will please everyone. Make the characters of your world actually matter.

There's a reason why a ton of people like playing the old gen games and have nostalgia for those. It's because a lot of people grew up with the Pokémon anime along with the games. The games didn't exactly develop it's characters well, but those early anime seasons developed the characters you see in the game and made people have tons of nostalgia for those games.

This is anecdotal, but I don't really clearly remember any of the gym leaders' names in the last 3 or 4 generations since I felt like they didn't ultimately matter. I just wanted to catch some Pokémon. A simplistic plot can be memorable if you actually tell compelling stories.