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NieR Replicant ver.1.22474487139's "Daredevil" trophy/achievement involves an interphobic joke at the expense of an intersex character

Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,384
Houston, TX
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This is fucked up, plain & simple. I have no idea what made Saki Ito, Yoko Taro, & Co. think this was a good trophy/achievement to put in the game. And for context, the intersex character in question is Kaine. Regarding the origins of this problematic trophy/achievement, it has roots in a sexist trophy/achievement regarding looking up 2B's skirt in NieR: Automata.

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To be clear, this doesn't make the current trophy/achievement any less interphobic, nor does the 2B trophy/achievement excuse the existence of the NieR: Replicant one in any way whatsoever. Both trophies/achievements are awful & shouldn't be in their respective games at all. But I wanted to give some information as to where this terrible joke started. In terms of what we can do about it, please let the following Twitter accounts know that we want this trophy/achievement either changed or outright removed.

Source: NieR Replicant ver.1.22474487139
 
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Dice

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,366
Canada
That being called "a trophy" is a disgrace.

N7_Kovalski said:
Didn't Automata have one for looking up 2B's skirt?
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It did. But phrasing Kaine's genitalia as a "secret to discover" is in super fucking poor taste given that her character gets bullied for it. Let alone how a game is treating a serious/real condition as a bad perverted joke. It was bad enough for 2B, but this has no chill.
 
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Razmos

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
The implications are horrible and it's a damn shame
 

slothrop

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 28, 2019
3,878
USA
Can someone explain? I don't understand what that screenshot is a reference to or how it is even a joke let alone at the expense of someone. I haven't played the game, so I'm likely just missing context.
 
SideMatt

SideMatt

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
874
very awful trophy, but transphobic is not the right term here as being intersex is not the same as trans
 
AnimaRize

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
This didn't exist in the original and should not. Have been added to the remake, whoever did this needs to have a stern punishment.
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,686
Can somebody give more context for someone who knows nothing about the game?
I feel like I'm missing something.
 
Siggy-P

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Neoxon said:
This is fucked up, plain & simple. I have no idea what made Yoko Taro & Co. think this was a good trophy/achievement to put in the game.
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I don't mean to sound like an ass, but one look at the character should make it clear the amount of tact and taste the developer has about those issues. If anything this is par for the course.
 
Razmos

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
slothrop said:
Can someone explain? I don't understand what that screenshot is a reference to or how it is even a joke let alone at the expense of someone. I haven't played the game, so I'm likely just missing context.
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Mórríoghain said:
I don't understand it, could someone explain? I don't mind spoilers.
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Kaine is intersex (the "justification" for her skimpy outfit is because she wants to look and feel as feminine as possible i think). The implication of the achievement is that you discover her "secret" by perving on her
 
Dice

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,366
Canada
slothrop said:
Can someone explain? I don't understand what that screenshot is a reference to or how it is even a joke let along at the expense of someone. I haven't played the game, so I'm likely just missing context.
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Mórríoghain said:
I don't understand it, could someone explain? I don't mind spoilers.
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The topic title tells you: Kainé is an intersex character, and a "trophy" to look up her waist (in a pic with her doing a HIGH KICK no less) is in super poor taste to a character that gets bullied for it in-game, and a condition that the real world has very little tact to deal with. And this "trophy" just proves that point.
 
Big Yoshi

Big Yoshi

Member
Nov 25, 2018
1,810
incredibly fucked up that they did not catch this, but the phrasing on the achievement is in reference to the 2b achievement not kaine's intersex status. Obviously they should remove the achievement because it is sexist garbage with terrible implications.
 
FuzzyAssassin

FuzzyAssassin

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
630
Yes NieR Automata did have a trophy for upskirting 2B 10 times. Yes that trophy's text did refer to the act as "discovering 2B's secret". That trophy is bad, problematic, and objectifies women, and this one is no better.

Although this trophy in Replicant may partially be a reference to the trophy in Automata, that doesn't make it any better. Indeed, some details about the character the player must upskirt to get this new trophy make this trophy worse and more offensive than the trophy in Automata.

I'm amazed and disappointed that this trophy and its description were able make it through multiple levels of approval. I'm not part of the specific marginalized group, but I think, at the very least, Square should change the wording to remove any references to a "secret".
 
AnimaRize

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
Big Yoshi said:
incredibly fucked up that they did not catch this, but the phrasing on the achievement is in reference to the 2b achievement not kaine's intersex status. Obviously they should remove the achievement because it is sexist garbage with terrible implications.
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Oh yes it is a reference to that, doesn't matter not every achievement works for every character and for kaine who was bullied for this exact thing it is much worse
 
KDC720

KDC720

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,329
Upskirt achievements are dumb as hell anyways, it wasn't clever when Lollipop Chainsaw did it, and especially not in 2021. But considering who the character in question is I have to wonder how this even made the final cut. Who could have possibly thought this was a good idea?
 
Yuntu

Yuntu

Prophet of Regret
Member
Nov 7, 2019
10,691
Germany
N7_Kovalski said:
Didn't Automata have one for looking up 2B's skirt?
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Yes. But there it was very clearly an intentional joke, this here seems like someone that decided on the trophies to ape the Automata wording which is not a good idea to put it nicely (honestly think the entire trophy just exists because Automata had one like it).
 

slothrop

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 28, 2019
3,878
USA
Dice said:
The topic title tells you: Kainé is an intersex character, and a "trophy" to look up her waist (in a pic with her doing a HIGH KICK no less) is in super poor taste to a character that gets bullied for it in-game, and a condition that the real world has very little tact to deal with. And this "trophy" just proves that point.
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The topic does not tell you. There is nothing about looking up someone's waist being the source of the achievement or the "joke". I understand now that I have this information.
 
ItIsOkBro

ItIsOkBro

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The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,515
Even tho it's phrased the same, it's definitely worse in the context of Kaine vs 2B.
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
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Jan 9, 2019
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KDC720 said:
Upskirt achievements are dumb as hell anyways, it wasn't clever when Lollipop Chainsaw did it, and especially not in 2021. But considering who the character in question is I have to wonder how this even made the final cut. Who could have possibly thought this was a good idea?
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Considering he's the game director and would likely be overseeing and approving everything, apparently Yoko Taro.
 
ArkhamFantasy

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
I love Nier to death and was over the moon at Automata's success, but way too many hand waved the problematic stuff in it as "oh that wacky taro!" instead of holding him and Square Enix accountable so it doesn't happen again.

It's ok to think that Nier's stories are incredibly deep and thought provoking and still be critical of flaws at the same time.
 
Kain-Nosgoth

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,576
Switzerland
Well, this is really bad... I wonder if taro had anything to do with that, since it wasn't in the original game at all, and it goes against what the character is going through
 
Crushed

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,719
doodlewhizz said:
Considering he's the game director and would likely be overseeing and approving everything, apparently Yoko Taro.
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Taro isn't actually directing the remake, IIRC; he's still the writer for any of the new content, but Saito is still producing and the director is... I can't remember their name.

I wouldn't doubt that they put most things in front of him for approval or that he had input on a lot of the creative decisions, but there is a degree of uncertainty on achievements.
 
Slammin_Hammon

Slammin_Hammon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
920
The trophy from Automata it's referencing was already in poor taste, but to do it again without thinking about the context and how it's even worse is an incredibly poor showing.
 
Razmos

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
All I can really hope is that in context if you try and do this she actually just kicks your ass into the dirt and that's the reason for the image because that's fitting for the kind of character she is but the hope is pretty slim
 

slothrop

▲ Legend ▲
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Aug 28, 2019
3,878
USA
Whether it's Taros fault, some low level employee, a middle manager, or the CEO of the company is totally irrelevant. Games are a collective work and they all own it
 
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