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Le Dude

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May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
The things that make a Mario 64 port especially weird are:

1. Crash remade all of its games graphically
2. Spyro remade all of its games graphically
3. The PC version of Mario 64 will be significantly more advanced by Fall than anyone expects the Switch version to be
Plus it's been available on Wii and Wii U for $10 over a decade, and on DS before that with improvements over the original. If it's a straight 1080p port with no other improvements I'd be incredibly disappointed.

I'd rather them doing a straight port that runs at 60fps and not a remake that somehow runs worse than on the N64.

I don't think you really have to worry about that. Haven't they all been 60fps except for Sunshine?
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 17, 2018
44,109
The things that make a Mario 64 port especially weird are:

1. Crash remade all of its games graphically
2. Spyro remade all of its games graphically
3. Mario 64's graphics are bad
4. The PC version of Mario 64 will be significantly more advanced by Fall than anyone expects the Switch version to be and will probably be better in every way other than being on the Switch

Ultimately it's just a matter of brand value. Crash/Spyro were in the dumpster so they had to go all out to get people to buy it.

PC Mario 64 being better than the Switch port is funny and true though.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
Never said that, just the opposite. Is 64 which would look ugly even at 4k.

I wrote that I disagree with your M64 point also, M64 with changes that I mentioned would look and play well enough, especially when talk about game thats part of collection not about standalone release.

Funny thing is, I'm right now playing XC DE, a game that has a far lesser potential market than Mario,that it has a combined asset count of at least 2 3D Mario games, that was funded by the same company, and even though, Monolith has redone all the textures and lots of 3D models of the game, has added a new lighting engine and has changed countless elements like the water etc...

Thats all true, but XC DE is standalone $60 release, its not part of collection of 3 games.



I highly doubt that Mario 64 will only be a simple 'Remaster'. If this would indeed be the case, then they could simply add it to NSO. I think there should at least be some graphical improvements beyond higher resolution.

NSO games doesnt run at 1080p, 60fps (if original game was 20FPS) have fixed wide option, have better UI, better camera and probably extra touch of two.
NSO games and remastered games are very different things.

Also, whats most important, you sound like M64 is standalone release while its part of collection with 2 other remastered 3D Mario games.



WWHD was $50 and TPHD was $50 digital or $60 physical with an Amiibo included.

You are right, but I dont think that $10 difference change much.
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
I think there is a lot more value in Link's awakening than in 3 or 4 3D mario bundled together.
Subjective, but my feel.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
I don't think it would ever be realistic for them to give multiple games the Xenoblade DE treatment and sell them as a pack. At most I could see Mario 64 with the visual revamp and the other two as ports but even that would be too generous for Nintendo/Mario...
Thats all true, but XC DE is standalone $60 release, its not part of collection of 3 games.
Thing is, XC DE is a far bigger game than any 3D Mario, it has tons of assets that need to be redone. Considering that both XC DE and the potential Mario collection use the same gameplay of the original games, and don't add a lot of new content or features, the amount of work would be not that different. But I agree with you, even if doing the things "right" would be finantially feasible and the best way to celebrate Mario, doing a poor job will be even better for them, as they will sell more or less the same and will spend only a fraction of money and time.
 

Deleted member 43657

User requested account closure
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May 19, 2018
5,115
I still contend that Nintendo putting out 3 or 4 mainline Mario games in ONE collection for $60 (remake or remastered) is completely not in line with ports of previous legacy titles.

I want this rumor to be true, I am skeptical.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Thing is, XC DE is a far bigger game than any 3D Mario, it has tons of assets that need to be redone. Considering that both XC DE and the potential Mario collection use the same gameplay of the original games, and don't add a lot of new content or features, the amount of work would be not that different. But I agree with you, even if doing the things "right" would be finantially feasible and the best way to celebrate Mario, doing a poor job will be even better for them, as they will sell more or less the same and will spend only a fraction of money and time.

I do agree in principle but that's kind of issue with games in general having a fixed price point. Xenoblade and Super Mario Galaxy were both $50 each for instance.
 

Party Sklar

Member
Jan 7, 2020
210
Maybe it's because I grew up with those games, maybe it's because I have a small-ish 1080p TV, but I think that SM64 still holds up today when I'm playing it. Same for the original Crash Bandicoot games. Yes, I'll take a remake, but gameplay-wise, the game is as fun to play today than in 1997.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 17, 2018
44,109
I still contend that Nintendo putting out 3 or 4 mainline Mario games in ONE collection for $60 (remake or remastered) is completely not in line with ports of previous legacy titles.

I want this rumor to be true, I am skeptical.

It doesn't sound that crazy, sounds like a pretty simple upres. I mean you got people in this thread saying it's too little value lol
 

donpiano

Member
Nov 15, 2017
667
Sure, SM64 with a new engine, graphics and content would be great but honestly I'll take anything they throw at us at this point.
 

Zippo

Banned
Dec 8, 2017
8,256
I do not think it would be needed if the gameplay remains a 1:1 of the original anyway; I also found the LA remake to be completely unnecessary in that regard. And Mario 64 gameplay is fine, at least for me. I could see them slightly improving the character models, which could be quite blocky at 1080p on a 65 inches screen. I remember when back in the days, visible polygons used to be considered pretty. So much that the cover of many Saturn games such as Virtua Fighter had characters with obvious polygons, to convey the idea that the game was in full 3D, rather than these outdated 2D graphics. How things have changed...

I think there might be a couple visual upgrades for models, but I think for the most part, it'll be more or less the original game in widescreen.
Galaxy 2 potentially not being included in the anniversary collection feels so wrong.

It's not in there. 0.5% chance of it being included.

On the other hand the Link's Awakening Remake is entirely unlike anything even remotely available beforehand. Super Mario 64 has been available on multiple systems for $10, and already had a version that looks better and has more content on DS well over a decade ago. Galaxy 1/2 were on Wii U's eshop for $20 each. Full on remakes or drastic overhauls are obviously unrealistic, but I don't think expecting them to do a little more than resolution bumps for Sunshine and Mario 64 is unrealistic.

I mean, kind of. Pokemon Let's Go is a soft remake of Pokemon Yellow, with even less depth than the original Game Boy game. It was also 60 dollars. I just suggest people to not expect this to be extravagant. That's not what people are getting.
 

Tialo

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Dec 4, 2019
1,064
Okay but if this Mario 3D Collection would indeed just be a small HD-Remaster-Collection, then this would never be Nintendos big christmas title. This would definetly not be enough to carry a christmas season.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
Remember when people doubted that Nintendo would even bundle the games together and kept insisting that 64, Sunshine and Galaxy would be individual releases?

That was hilarious.

I was one of those people, I always thought that Nintendo will do Mario Galaxy 1 HD maybe include Mario Galaxy 2 also, do remaster and sell that for $60, so later I at first refuse to believe that Mario Collection will include 3 remasters of 3D Mario games.

So its hard for me to understand that here some people expecting some big changes with this remasters even full remake for M64.



Those were on virtual console though, and Wii games. N64 games I think they sell on virtual console for like $10 or less. I can't believe they would just throw 3 N64/Gamecube/Wii games in a physical disc and charge $60 for it.

M64 is $10 on VC and Mario Galaxy is $20, but those VC games are not remasters, they are basically ports,
we talking about remasters here.



The things that make a Mario 64 port especially weird are:

1. Crash remade all of its games graphically
2. Spyro remade all of its games graphically
3. Mario 64's graphics are bad
4. The PC version of Mario 64 will be significantly more advanced by Fall than anyone expects the Switch version to be and will probably be better in every way other than being on the Switch

Not really, Sony released Uncharted Trilogy Remaster for PS4 and they were selling that for $60, MS done something similar with Halo Collection,
Nintendo released DKTF, game that was $50 on Wii U, on Switch and they are selling it for $60, so obvious Nintendo have diffrent way of thinking and value perception when comes to their games.
And we here about remaster of M64, game thats part of collection not standalone release.

I dont see how much PC version of M64 is advanced has anuthing with M64 remaster that will be part of Mario Collection on Switch,
I mean you can already play Zelda BotW on PC through emulator and looks much better than Switch version, but that means nothing for Switch or Zelda BotW on Switch.
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
I still contend that Nintendo putting out 3 or 4 mainline Mario games in ONE collection for $60 (remake or remastered) is completely not in line with ports of previous legacy titles.

I want this rumor to be true, I am skeptical.
Super Mario 64 has been $10 for over a decade. Galaxy has been $20 for almost a decade. All three in a $60 with a simple 1080p boost would arguably be a worse value than what they've offered in the past. Super Mario 64 got a visual upgrade in a $40 package 16 years ago.

I mean, kind of. Pokemon Let's Go is a soft remake of Pokemon Yellow, with even less depth than the original Game Boy game. It was also 60 dollars. I just suggest people to not expect this to be extravagant. That's not what people are getting.
Yeah, anything extravagant should be unexpected, but I can definitely see some model updates and some added touch-ups like the 3DS version got for 64. Sunshine with added 60fps and 1080 and Galaxy at 1080p would be enough for both of those.
 

Tibarn

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Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
I do agree in principle but that's kind of issue with games in general having a fixed price point. Xenoblade and Super Mario Galaxy were both $50 each for instance.
Yep, both games were great and justified the price, and both were NEW games, but knowing the collection will be 60€, I think that making the games visually appealing while keeping the gameplay etc.. should be the minimun to expect. Releasing a quick cash grab will be profitable, but it will be a sad way to celebrate Mario's legacy IMHO.

I still contend that Nintendo putting out 3 or 4 mainline Mario games in ONE collection for $60 (remake or remastered) is completely not in line with ports of previous legacy titles.
This is true, but Nintendo has mostly released Zelda remasters/remakes. Zelda doesn't sell as well as Mario, but the games are usually longer and the fanbase is more dedicated. And besides TP HD, all the other Zelda remasters/remakes had a big visual upgrade, even TWW. I think that the main target of a Mario collection is the same target as the Crash/Spyo collection: people who wants to remember the games as they have good memories with them, so being more expensive and a worse work doesn't seem ideal, even if they can sell well.
 

Dany1899

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,219
Okay but if this Mario 3D Collection would indeed just be a small HD-Remaster-Collection, then this would never be Nintendos big christmas title. This would definetly not be enough to carry a christmas season.
I think three Mario games bundles in a single collection, even if old, can have a great appeal. Of course, not as much as Odissey, but there are potentially many people who didn't play all the three titles. After all, I don't see other big titles coming this year. But, if BotW2 comes out in March, then it will still be in the same financial year. And it would explain why we the Mario collection could be the big titles for the Holiday.
 

jdh96

One Winged Slayer
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Jan 25, 2020
1,705
It's not in there. 0.5% chance of it being included.
This makes absolutely zero sense to me i can't imagine in the slightest why they would choose to exclude it, especially considering Galaxy 2 even reuses art assets from 1. Honestly if this ends up being the case man, that's so disappointing if true.
 

Tialo

Member
Dec 4, 2019
1,064
I think three Mario games bundles in a single collection, even if old, can have a great appeal. Of course, not as much as Odissey, but there are potentially many people who didn't play all the three titles. After all, I don't see other big titles coming this year. But, if BotW2 comes out in March, then it will still be in the same financial year. And it would explain why we the Mario collection could be the big titles for the Holiday.

I could still see a new game from the Mario-Kart/Arms-Team. But furthermore I don't expect Mario 3D World AND Mario 3D Collection to be both released still this year, so Mario 3D Collection would not be a christmas title anyway in my bill ;)
 

Tibarn

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Oct 31, 2017
13,370
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It's not in there. 0.5% chance of it being included.
This makes the deal even worse, I imagine Nintendo thinks that not including the best 3D Mario (or at least one of the 3 97 MC Mario games) that is also the one that would be more appealing if they simply upres them, is the best way to make a hell of a pack.
 

Simba1

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Dec 5, 2017
5,383
Thing is, XC DE is a far bigger game than any 3D Mario, it has tons of assets that need to be redone. Considering that both XC DE and the potential Mario collection use the same gameplay of the original games, and don't add a lot of new content or features, the amount of work would be not that different.

But I agree with you, even if doing the things "right" would be finantially feasible and the best way to celebrate Mario, doing a poor job will be even better for them, as they will sell more or less the same and will spend only a fraction of money and time.

Doesn't really matter because both 3D Mario games and XC are full priced games in any case, so it doesnt matter what game is bigger and has more assets,
also thing is that XC DE without all those changes would look like ass in HD while both Galaxy and Sunshine aged incomparable better than XC and they are still look quite nice just running at 1080p.

I dont think they will do poor job, I think they will do OK to nice job, while great job would mean something like full remake for M64 and bigger changes for Sunshine and Galaxy like Zelda WW HD had for instance, but its totally unrealistic to expect something like that because in that case Nintendo could sell any of those games standalone for $60 instead of Collection.
 

Tibarn

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Oct 31, 2017
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also thing is that XC DE without all those changes would look like ass in HD while both Galaxy and Sunshine aged incomparable better than XC and they are still look quite nice just running at 1080p.
Agreed, but this doesn't mean that is a nice value to release barely improved 10-20€ Virtual Console games that should be alredy on the system if the VC was a thing.

I dont think they will do poor job, I think they will do OK to nice job, while great job would mean something like full remake for M64 and bigger changes for Sunshine and Galaxy like Zelda WW HD had for instance, but its totally unrealistic to expect something like that because in that case Nintendo could sell any of those games standalone for $60 instead of Collection.
And maybe would be for the best. I think that a full remake of Mario 64 (the game that needs it the most) selling it at a full price, and releasing the other games upscaled at a reasonable price (15€) as a digital "celebration" release would make more sense.
 

Simba1

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Dec 5, 2017
5,383
Super Mario 64 has been $10 for over a decade. Galaxy has been $20 for almost a decade. All three in a $60 with a simple 1080p boost would arguably be a worse value than what they've offered in the past. Super Mario 64 got a visual upgrade in a $40 package 16 years ago.


Yeah, anything extravagant should be unexpected, but I can definitely see some model updates and some added touch-ups like the 3DS version got for 64. Sunshine with added 60fps and 1080 and Galaxy at 1080p would be enough for both of those.

M64 is still $10, Galaxy is $20 and Sunshine if exist on VC would be $15-20, so value of those seperate game would be at least $45.
So how collection of remasters (1080p, 60FPS, wide screen, improved camera, controls, UI...few other extra touches) of those games, for $60 can be worse (or bad value) when only 1080p is huge game changer of how game looks?
 

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
44,109
Okay but if this Mario 3D Collection would indeed just be a small HD-Remaster-Collection, then this would never be Nintendos big christmas title. This would definetly not be enough to carry a christmas season.

seems plausible enough their would-be big holiday title got delayed.
 

Tibarn

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Oct 31, 2017
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M64 is still $10, Galaxy is $20 and Sunshine if exist on VC would be $15-20, so value of those seperate game would be at least $45.
So how collection of remasters (1080p, 60FPS, wide screen, improved camera, controls, UI...few other extra touches) of those games, for $60 can be worse (or bad value) when only 1080p is huge game changer of how game looks?
You need to also understand, that both 64 and Galaxy's numbers are WiiU prices, the games are a few years older now and common sense dictates that a Switch release should be even cheaper.
 

Tialo

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Dec 4, 2019
1,064
EPD 8 probably going to have 3 games coming. Exciting if so, but at least 2 minimum.

Yes but 2 of them should be on a very low-effort-level.

1) If Mario 3D Collection would indeed be a simple HD-Remaster-stuff, then this should not be much work. Improving the resolution and the framerate should not be a big deal nowadays
2) A port of Mario 3D World Deluxe would also not be a big deal. Furthermore we can assume that 1up-studio and NST will do most of the porting job here.
3) Due to that, most of the EPD Tokyo stuff should be free for a third project and this one will be their next 'big' game. A lot of people think that this will most probably be Mario Odyssey 2, but I am not quite sure about this. Maybe this could be an overload of 3D Mario Games, so EPD Tokyo could work on another game. Maybe a huge 3D Donkey Kong (they gave hints about that in Mario Odyssey) or a completely new IP. It will be very interesting to see their next reveal :)
 

Le Dude

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May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
M64 is still $10, Galaxy is $20 and Sunshine if exist on VC would be $15-20, so value of those seperate game would be at least $45.
So how collection of remasters (1080p, 60FPS, wide screen, improved camera, controls, UI...few other extra touches) of those games, for $60 can be worse (or bad value) when only 1080p is huge game changer of how game looks?
The original post I replied to said "Nintendo putting out 3 or 4 mainline Mario games in ONE collection for $60 (remake or remastered) is completely not in line with ports of previous legacy titles."

I was saying that's not true. If you packaged them alltogether with no updates at $60 it would be a poor value, and arguably just a 1080p uprez for the three titles at $60 would be a disappointment as well. The three in one package with all the features you mentioned is more in line with what would be reasonable for a $60 package.
 
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Wander_

Banned
Feb 26, 2018
5,552
Galaxy 2 was a step back. they removed that stunning hub for a boring 2d map and the majority of worlds were focused on Cloud Mario. also the space in the background disappeared, you were always under the sun. :\

not to mention the beautiful Rosalina' story, which made me cry a lot in the first game.

definitely a huge step back.
 

jdh96

One Winged Slayer
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Jan 25, 2020
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If 64 doesn't have a fully rotatable camera like the PC port has now its going be extra salt on the wounds.
 

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
44,109
Yep, and DKC TF was more expensive as a Switch game. Bad practices all of them, it works well for Nintendo but it doesn't mean we shouldn't expect better.

Sure but that's the cost of doing business with Nintendo. If we're just talking pure expectations there's nothing surprising going on here.
 

AllEchse

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,125
I'm doing my best to level people's expectations. Some people are expecting a Mario 64 remake in the Odyssey engine, and that's not happening, lol.
I mean it's nice that you are trying to keep it civil in here, but you are not Nintendo's PR person.
Ofcourse we can tell ourselver that this is the way Nintendo operates and that's why it is not bad.
But it just does look bad when we could buy Mario 64 for the last 15 years for like 10 bucks and it looked pretty much the same apart from the resolution.
Value is gonna be enhanced just by having Galaxy, but I wouldn't really call it a steal for 60 bucks when all they did is bump up the resolution and you can get the Crash and Spyro remasters for cheaper, and they are actually upgraded.
Yes it's gonna sell just by being Mario, but we aren't shareholders here(maybe someone here is, I dont know, but not primarily) so what do we care about how a remaster of games we already played sell.
It's not like it's gonna affect sequels.
So what I want to say is, I think it's fair if people get upset about the collection(in a civil manner, but gamers lol), when they are such influental games and it feels like they get less care than other comapnies give their franchises.
This is only in the remaster department, the actually new current Nintendo games are awesome.
I just find this narrative of "Nintendo did Zelda remakes for 60$ so this is fine because thats how Nintendo is" kinda like being blind to Nintendos faults.
It's gonna be cool having those games on hanheld I guess, but with Mario I feel like we should be able to expect more.


Especially with the fan PC Port of 64 pretty much actually already being better, and Galaxy looking awesome on Dolphin already. But that's probably beside the point.
 

Glio

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Oct 27, 2017
24,496
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Personally, HUB and story is like 0.5% of what I value in a Mario game. But each one gives a different weight to different aspects of the games.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 17, 2018
44,109
Nobody has said you can't be disappointed with a barebones remaster. That's never how this conversation starts. It always starts with someone confidently saying they're gonna remake 64 in the Odyssey engine or whatever.
 

Simba1

Member
Dec 5, 2017
5,383
Agreed, but this doesn't mean that is a nice value to release barely improved 10-20€ Virtual Console games that should be alredy on the system if the VC was a thing.

And maybe would be for the best. I think that a full remake of Mario 64 (the game that needs it the most) and releasing the other games upscaled at a reasonable price as a digital "celebration" release would make more sense.

Mario Collection with 3 remastered 3D Mario games for $60 is great value, and sales will prove that, it will be big system seller and easily 10m+ seller ,
Nintendo could easily do Mario Galaxy HD remaster alone and sell that for $60 they would again kill with sales.

If they doing only M64 remake, than there is no need for Collection, and Mario Collection will bring much more hype and sales than only M64 remake would do.

You need to also understand, that both 64 and Galaxy's numbers are WiiU prices, the games are a few years older now and common sense dictates that a Switch release should be even cheaper.

Nintendo doesnt think like that, M64 had some price point on Wii and Wii U, also all Wii U ports on Switch are full priced some even more expansive.
 
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