Nintendo files multimillion-dollar lawsuit against ROM website, RomUniverse

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,324
Just because something isn't currently available, doesn't mean it won't ever be. People downloading roms of "too expensive" games devalues their worth. You see it on sites like these all the time, where you'll see companies make their old games available only for people to become incredulous and be like "Charging $25 for a 10 year old game?!" For a company like sega, something like PDS still holds a lot of value, and if it ever gets remade, that value will be why. There is much less incentive to put in a lot of work to re-release something -- you know, what several in this topic are claiming is actual preservation -- if people will just pirate it instead.
Fun part in that it's that Nintendo actually showed that multiple times.
Copies of Earthbound are now worth a fraction of what they were.
Same with Prime Trilogy or even US Xenoblade.
Now these games are pretty much in reasonable pricing.
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,242
I'm all for preservation but that's not making money off people to distribute. If they want a Patreon to pay for their effort in preservation, fine, but that's not what this is.
 

Krejlooc

Indie Game Dev
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
18,166
True, but the mentality against piracy is that the people responsible for making the game are entitled to payment for their work.

If there’s no legitimate avenue to do that, what is the case against piracy then?
Just because you aren't selling something today, doesn't mean you might not sell it tomorrow.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,324
True, but the mentality against piracy is that the people responsible for making the game are entitled to payment for their work.

If there’s no legitimate avenue to do that, what is the case against piracy then?
Don't worry the majority of the people working on any version of Super Mario World can still be fairly compensated.
 

Velezcora

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,189
then what incentive do the corporations have to fund and sponsor that art if the people feel like they're entitled to it for free?
Okay this is a complex topic and I wasn't going into proper detail because I was on my phone but now I'm at a computer.

So I believe art belongs to the people. However in our current economic system it's necessary to have sponsors for the creation of art. Those sponsors wouldn't want to invest in art if there was no profit. So it's a necessary evil. I'm also happy to pay creators for their art.
So I'm not arguing art should always be free.

I think creators and IP owners should have the right to sell their products for as long as they want. However I don't think that should grant them the right to legally withhold art from the public if they have no intention of selling it.
So I think there should be a time limit in place. Once that time limit is surpassed that art becomes public domain for non-profit uses. The company can choose to sell it again if they want but they can't stop people from sharing it.

This sadly will never happen because corporations want complete control over their IP. So really rom sites are our next best thing. Yeah some people will use them to pirate Super Mario Bros despite Nintendo selling it. That sucks and I wish it wasn't the case. But it's really our only other avenue to keep the multiple games that aren't available officially accessible for the public.

The only option is for those games to fall to obscurity in the form of the physical copies out in the ether and private hard drives they are held on. That sucks, right?
 

faceless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,270
i can already see their lawyers spinning this in court "see, they were offering ROMS for free, they wqere just selling priority access to speedy downloads!"

Ninterndo Ninjas gonna have this dude on the fast track to the big house.
 

Error 52

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,742
Just because something isn't currently available, doesn't mean it won't ever be. People downloading roms of "too expensive" games devalues their worth. You see it on sites like these all the time, where you'll see companies make their old games available only for people to become incredulous and be like "Charging $25 for a 10 year old game?!" For a company like sega, something like PDS still holds a lot of value, and if it ever gets remade, that value will be why. There is much less incentive to put in a lot of work to re-release something -- you know, what several in this topic are claiming is actual preservation -- if people will just pirate it instead.
Piracy is the reason a lot of games even get a re-release, let’s be honest. It’s the reason, say, Earthbound had enough popularity that Ninteneo bothered.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
8,899
Games like Path of Radiance and Panzer Dragoon saga are literally unaffordable

Can you imagine how absurd it would be if the mad max fury road blu ray was $200?

"You arent entitled to enjoy Mad max so shut up"
Well, as much as I agree with games like Panzer Dragoon Saga which are prohibitively expensive, then it becomes a thing of how expensive is expensive. Is $60 too expensive for an old game? I can get a brand new game for that price, why should I pay that?

But the argument for "entitlement" people always make is pretty weak. Literally feeling pity for corporations lol.
 

DrArchon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
Any arguments to be made about game preservation go out the window when you're hosting ROMs for games still being sold and charging money for them.

Stupid games. Stupid prizes.
 

xeecee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
You mean like how there's no legal way to access famous vapoware like Star Fox 2 or Earthbound Zero?
Or is that the US version of Xenoblade that NoA's then CEO famously didn't want to bother releasing?
you're right, a few highly publicized exceptions offset the vast ocean of unavailable works. get real
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,324
Piracy is the reason a lot of games even get a re-release, let’s be honest. It’s the reason, say, Earthbound had enough popularity that Ninteneo bothered.
Nah, the tentpole Super Smash Bros making a front row seat for Earthbound is probably the bigger reason.
And we already know that piracy isn't why Earthbound is in Smash.

you're right, a few highly publicized exceptions offset the vast ocean of unavailable works. get real
At this point there's more exceptions than unavailable works.
there's not that many of their titles that aren't available and if they are they're not driving traffic to rom site so even there interest is already low to not even warrant hosting on pirate sites.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,104
it all boils down to entitlement imo

a, you're not entitled to everything. sometimes some things are unavailable and you have to learn to live with that

b, you can't force any artist or corporation to sell your something they don't want to, and when they don't you can't use that as an excuse to steal it
 

Champion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,847
Tampa, FL
Motherfucking Nintendo, I love them but please leave sites that focus on old roms alone, I wish they would at least try to provide a service for old stuff, what they are doing so far is laughable at best.

Edit: I'm mostly talking about attacking sites focused on preservation, if it's new stuff and it's paid then yeah whatever.
I just checked out the site to see how ridiculous it is and they literally have the SNES app on there. There's no defending this.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,159
What I said was

Which you characterized as:

You're not even replying to what I said.
Bull fucking shit, you typed:

It's literally the difference between something existing and not existing. The idea that "preservation" extends only as far as "can I play it" is mind-bogglingly selfish.
I was replying to what you said. Don't make up shit to try to make others look bad, and own up to what you say.

Just because something isn't currently available, doesn't mean it won't ever be. People downloading roms of "too expensive" games devalues their worth. You see it on sites like these all the time, where you'll see companies make their old games available only for people to become incredulous and be like "Charging $25 for a 10 year old game?!" For a company like sega, something like PDS still holds a lot of value, and if it ever gets remade, that value will be why. There is much less incentive to put in a lot of work to re-release something -- you know, what several in this topic are claiming is actual preservation -- if people will just pirate it instead.
For one, I own a copy of Panzer Dragoon Saga, and I'd be far happier if everyone could play the game. But Sega can never bring it to market as they don't have the source code.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,944
Just check out the site to see how ridiculous it is and they literally have the SNES app on there. There's no defending this.
This site is clearly not what I meant, I literally said "old roms". I care about preservation and for people to have access to old games when a lot of publishers just do not care. If they are selling stuff you can buy right now and support developers then screw them of course.

Also, I find Nintendo's efforts with their NES/SNES apps to be laughable at best.
 

mazi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,104
Some of these things CAN be available though. Why take that away? It literally doesn't harm the IP holders.
who knows, it's not up to me to decide. for whatever reason they currently don't want to sell it. i have hundreds of actually available games to pick from, i'm not gonna obsess over why company X isn't selling me game Y.
 

xeecee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
583
You can go on the 3DS and Wii U e-shops right now and buy NES. SNES, GB, GBA, DS, N64, Wii, Game Gear and TG-16 games. Yes that service is very much available
You can still buy a Wii U and play the Virtual Console releases. They didn't stop existing.
and why would I make any purchases on this version of the service that already awkwardly replaced the wii one I spent money on that they already shut down?

When did they shut the WiiU online service again?
give it a year or so, I reckon

If we go by popular demand, they absolutely are.
popular demand absolutely shouldn't dictate the availability of games. this is exactly why people resort to piracy of old software in the first place
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,519
USA
and why would I make any purchases on this version of the service that already awkwardly replaced the wii one I spent money on that they already shut down?



give it a year or so, I reckon



popular demand absolutely shouldn't dictate the availability of games. this is exactly why people resort to piracy of old software in the first place
Every single game I purchased on the Wii I can still play right now. What's the risk? Store disappearing doesn't cut of your access to your own games
 

Velezcora

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,189
who knows, it's not up to me to decide. for whatever reason they currently don't want to sell it. i have hundreds of actually available games to pick from, i'm not gonna obsess over why company X isn't selling me game Y.
You're right it's not but that doesn't mean we shouldn't question these things. If you don't care then why are you hear bashing on people wanting games not currently for sale to be available?
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
7,324
give it a year or so, I reckon
We'll cross that bridge when we get there.
Unlike DS and Wii though, they don't have to deal with a partner shutting up which was DS and Wii lost online capability after all.


popular demand absolutely shouldn't dictate the availability of games. this is exactly why people resort to piracy of old software in the first place
It absolutely does.
Why do you think the selection of ROM sites are the way they are.
there's a reason they're all hosting SMW and can't be bothered to get that obscure Virtual boy no has seen outside of Japan.

Thats a hell of a pivot!

"You can buy all of the games!"
"What about [list of twenty unavailable games]"
"Pff those are just exceptions"
You're the one that argued that VC and most of Nintendo's library on NES/SNES/N64 was some exceptions.
If people were that interested in buying unpopular old games, you would think there would be far more people clamoring for Game&Watch products but nope.
 

Man God

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,201
Games like Path of Radiance and Panzer Dragoon saga are literally unaffordable

Can you imagine how absurd it would be if the mad max fury road blu ray was $200?

"You arent entitled to enjoy Mad max so shut up"
PoR was cleared out of every Best Buy in the country back when they made it. It did not have that low of a print run and its been what, 15 years now?

The series got popular with Awakening and people went hunting it down. There's plenty of copies in circulation.

There are plenty of DVDs from 15 years ago that are so out of print that they go for around what PoR does.

PDS was legitimately a tiny print run and is almost a decade older than PoR and even that was cleared out. Sega could remake it if they wanted to, but don't. Game goes for a few hundred dollars as it should being a hard to find collector's item.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
8,899
PoR was cleared out of every Best Buy in the country back when they made it. It did not have that low of a print run and its been what, 15 years now?

The series got popular with Awakening and people went hunting it down. There's plenty of copies in circulation.

There are plenty of DVDs from 15 years ago that are so out of print that they go for around what PoR does.

PDS was legitimately a tiny print run and is almost a decade older than PoR and even that was cleared out. Sega could remake it if they wanted to, but don't. Game goes for a few hundred dollars as it should being a hard to find collector's item.
Off topic, but I believe they said Saga could happen if the Panzer Dragoon and Zwei remakes do well.
 

Champion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,847
Tampa, FL
This site is clearly not what I meant, I literally said "old roms". I care about preservation and for people to have access to old games when a lot of publishers just do not care. If they are selling stuff you can buy right now and support developers then screw them of course.

Also, I find Nintendo's efforts with their NES/SNES apps to be laughable at best.
You could say the same for other companies with their legacy content and I think its because its not worth it. Hence why we get these efforts that are perceived as poor. I doubt the average consumer is pressed about N64 games not being on the Switch or not being able to play their favorite PS1 game on PS4.

Regardless, this site and all these other ROM sites have no right to be doing what they're doing. This is theft.