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Nintendo hits popular homebrew YouTuber, Modern Vintage Gamer, with numerous copyright claims forcing him to stop making Switch homebrew videos.

Oct 27, 2017
16,795
Conveniently overlooking how in many of those smaller markets the accessibility to games is probably shit and the prices for software as hardware are outrageous compared to average living wages.
yet before switch got hacked me and many of my friends could easily buy switch games, now most of them have hacked their switch and you can't find switch games anywhere cuz shops don't bother importing cuz people don't buy switch games anymore cuz most have hacked their switch. in fact when you buy a switch they offer to hack it for you and fill a 128GB sd card with games for some extra money.
yes game availability is and has been crap here since forever, no one officially does business here. yet when demand for something is high retailers import games from neighbor countries. ps4 has a massive market here for new and used games and there are so many shops where you can buy them at good prices. switch was like that for the first year too, but now the market for it has been completely destroyed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,735
He is getting what he deserves.
For... what exactly?

Years of producing good, informative content which is completely legal? At most it is against Nintendo TOS, but Nintendo only have a right to restrict his access to their online services in that case.

Nintendo are the ones manually filing false DMCA claims here. Something which is actually illegal, and they only do so because they know these guys don't have the resources to argue it in court.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
2,189
I can't speak for everyone, but the argument is less that it doesn't exist or isn't a large factor, but that its threat to business isn't as big as people make it out to be, so it's not worth giving up the other liberties of homebrew for it. Just look at the most open platform on the market, PC, where you can pirate games in a few clicks with no modification to your operating system or hardware. It's more open and easy than any custom firmware I've ever seen (besides Linux on Switch :p) Yet, despite this openness and ease of piracy, the platform is pretty much on par with the available consoles combined:



Note the huge share of Mobile as well, another platform where jailbreaking and piracy are possible. So, to me, the piracy-pearl-clutching regarding homebrew and the opening up of your own devices seems simply off base. That's not to say piracy doesn't happen thanks to homebrew, clearly it does, but the platforms with readily available custom firmware and piracy enabled through that don't seem to be hurting compared to the ones that try to restrict their consumers.

Want to disclaim that I'm not condoning or excusing piracy in any way; don't do it, kids.
What's the revenue split for F2P vs Singular purchase though on these platforms? That's a big reason why most mobile games are F2P.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
This isn't mathematics though, saying "Piracy=Homebrew" is not equivalent to saying "Homebrew=Piracy". All oranges are fruit but not all fruit are oranges, etc. All I am saying is that piracy and cheating is impossible without open access - i.e. homebrew. Thus homebrew is at best doomed to be collateral damage in the fight against piracy and cheating.
factually incorrect. Piracy has been achieved in the past without homebrew.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
I used CFW on my 3DS to stream/record video and use an external controller because Nintendo's hardware hurts my hands.
How much lag is there on the streaming? Is this a good way to play the 3DS on the TV? I’ve been meaning to look into modding a TV out on the 3DS (not sure if it’s possible)
yet before switch got hacked me and many of my friends could easily buy switch games, now most of them have hacked their switch and you can't find switch games anywhere cuz shops don't bother importing cuz people don't buy switch games anymore cuz most have hacked their switch. in fact when you buy a switch they offer to hack it for you and fill a 128GB sd card with games for some extra money.
yes game availability is and has been crap here since forever, no one officially does business here. yet when demand for something is high retailers import games from neighbor countries. ps4 has a massive market here for new and used games and there are so many shops where you can buy them at good prices. switch was like that for the first year too, but now the market for it has been completely destroyed.
The situation sounds shitty and I’m sorry you don’t have a legit way to buy games. However, isn’t this really a Nintendo issue? Isnt there a few other problems before home brew causing you to have to rely a grey market in the first place?
 
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Oct 26, 2017
1,382
They're providing a step=by-step process on how to circumvent Nintendo's security. Of course they're going to get DCMAed.
i don't think MVG is providing any kind of instruction of how to hack the switch, i seen some of his videos, most of them are analyzing the emulation and hardware,
those 4 videos doesn't have instructions on them on how to hack the switch, i think they are blocked just because they have "mario" or first party character showing on several frames on the video.

 
Oct 27, 2017
16,795
The situation sounds shitty and I’m sorry you don’t have a way to buy games legally. However, isn’t this really a Nintendo issue? They’re the cause of not selling to your market and instead having to rely a grey market in the first place.
i do understand that my situation isn't really an indication of the effect that hacking has had on major markets, i'm just saying how it has affected me, and for that i wish it didn't exist. iran is in a unique situation where most foreign companies don't officially do business here (including sony and MS), yet the lack of widespread piracy on their systems mean there's a pretty healthy market for physical ps4 and xbox games and it's just us switch players (those who don't want to pirate games) who are getting fucked and have to deal importers, high prices, non existent used market, getting games late, etc.
 
Oct 27, 2017
129
How much lag is there on the streaming? Is this a good way to play the 3DS on the TV? I’ve been meaning to look into modding a TV out on the 3DS (not sure if it’s possible)
It's perceivable lag, but it's fine for something like Pokemon. I didn't enjoy Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate with it much, though. You can see it in videos that show both screens at the same time:


Can clearly tell there are a few frames of delay. For games that aren't that time-sensitive, however, I found it fine. It's also nice to be able to record/stream video, even if you're still playing on the actual device.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,735
i do understand that my situation isn't really an indication of the effect that hacking has had on major markets, i'm just saying how it has affected me, and for that i wish it didn't exist. iran is in a unique situation where most foreign companies don't officially do business here (including sony and MS), yet the lack of widespread piracy on their systems mean there's a pretty healthy market for physical ps4 and xbox games and it's just us switch players (those who don't want to pirate games) who are getting fucked and have to deal importers, high prices, non existent used market, getting games late, etc.
You should really look into what happened on PC in that case.

Piracy ridden platform, especially so in third world parties. Is now doing much better and many of those markets (not sure about Iran) are growing because Valve (and now others) started improving their services in those countries and provided regional pricing so people could actually afford games. Of course piracy still exists, but those markets are now much healthier than they used to be.

Homebrew is used as a means for piracy in third world countries because other companies completely fail to offer a service there, and people are forced to look to other means instead. It's a classic market failure. And the fact you say most companies don't even do business there just helps solidify that fact.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,795
You should really look into what happened on PC in that case.

Piracy ridden platform, especially so in third world parties. Is now doing much better and those markets are growing because Valve (and now others) started improving their services in those countries and provided regional pricing so people could actually afford games. Of course piracy still exists, but those markets are now much healthier than they used to be.

Homebrew is used as a means for piracy in third world countries because other companies completely fail to offer a service there, and people are forced to look to other means instead. It's a classic market failure.
you do have a point, steam is basically the reason why me and many of my friends started buying PC games legally (even tho we have to create accounts for other regions and buy credit codes online) but the convenience is a big factor. buying digitally for switch is pretty easy as well and many people who don't want to pirate are doing that, it's just those of us who prefer physical that have to deal with some stuff that we didn't have to before hacking became widespread.
 
Jan 16, 2019
892
i don't think MVG is providing any kind of instruction of how to hack the switch, i seen some of his videos, most of them are analyzing the emulation and hardware,
those 4 videos doesn't have instructions on them on how to hack the switch, i think they are blocked just because they have "mario" or first party character showing on several frames on the video.

Yeah see, this isn't Nintendo having a concern with content and going through the proper channels to see it dealt with, this is Nintendo taking the easy route and wielding DMCA like a big stick, which they have prior form in mind you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
506
The apologists in this thread smh.

Get a life, dude did nothing wrong and you as a poster gain nothing by jumping to Corporate defence. It's okay to like Nintendo but still criticise their more stupid practices, this being one of them.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,325
Can we do the inverse as well, ban people who deny that homebrew is always the first step to piracy?

It always starts with homebrew. Like owning a gun is the first step to shooting someone - doesn't guarantee it, but literally can't happen otherwise.
This has not always been the case. Taking the early 3DS days as an example there were piracy tools that had no relation to homebrew, neither enabling it or being based on it.
 
Feb 6, 2019
251
I do. And I’m making the point that there is more than one result from people tinkering with technology.
yes but that is on the realm of wishful thinking, on reality most people using HB is likely for piracy

This has not always been the case. Taking the early 3DS days as an example there were piracy tools that had no relation to homebrew, neither enabling it or being based on it.
not sure about individuals, but the basic requirement for HB is what inevitable enables piracy. to Run HB you need to crack a hardware to be able to run costume code, which goes from, installing some funky backgrounds or saving files on the side to CFW, booters, ROM lunchers. etc. so the more the community efforts advance towards making HB possible, it also means they are closer to enable piracy and online cheating in a device, even is not directly by their hand.

and I says this is inevitable, cause the working for that is done open source by the community. so anyone can see the work and then apply is for their on convenient use. Working on a close environment, and only cracking enough to allow HB without getting deep enough to allow misuse, would take way longer and be way more complicated.
 
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IamFlying

Banned
Member
Apr 6, 2019
32
User Warned: Please do not conflate homebrew and modding with piracy
So the YouTuber is profiting from showing detailed instructions how to crack a device and enabling playing pirated games?

Homebrew is nice, but there is no point of cover up with a smokescreen here. This instructions are mainly used as basics to use pirated games. The YouTuber knows this, Nintendo knows this and his viewers know this too.

Defending big companies maybe pointless (but it strangely seems some think big companies are always bad, no grey area allowed). But exploiting the work of others like the YouTuber does and profiting from it is nothing good too.

It's not about good David against evil Goliath. The YouTuber is a company too if he is profiting from his videos (and some of the "Homebrew" YouTubers are supported by companies that run pirate websites anyway). It's only about two morally wronged parties against each other. There is no point in defending any of those two.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,735
So the YouTuber is profiting from showing detailed instructions how to crack a device and enabling playing pirated games?

Homebrew is nice, but there is no point of cover up with a smokescreen here. This instructions are mainly used as basics to use pirated games. The YouTuber knows this, Nintendo knows this and his viewers know this too.

Defending big companies maybe pointless (but it strangely seems some think big companies are always bad, no grey area allowed). But exploiting the work of others like the YouTuber does and profiting from it is nothing good too.

It's not about good David against evil Goliath. The YouTuber is a company too if he is profiting from his videos (and some of the "Homebrew" YouTubers are supported by companies that run pirate websites anyway). It's only about two morally wronged parties against each other. There is no point in defending any of those two.
Not only do the flagged videos not give such instructions, he is not "exploiting the work of others".

He gives informative videos about the state of the scene and what can be done at any given time, and the dude fucking contributes homebrew software himself. He ported a version of MAME, and created the Switch port of Canonball-C for crying out loud.

https://github.com/lantus/cannonball-nx

Here are his git repos:

https://github.com/lantus?tab=repositories

The guy was also huge back in the OG Xbox homebrew days (the name Lantus mlght be more familiar to those people, but it's the same guy). He isn't just some Youtuber.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
633
Oh lookie here. Another homwbrew/emulation thread that is getting swarmed by Nintendo loyals. They always come to those threads just to scream "piracy!!"
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,911
Brazil
User Banned (1 Week): History of piracy derailment in threads about system modification and inflammatory generalizations; previous infractions
His own fault to post homebrew tutorials on youtube. Only idiots would call it censorship and Nintendo here is right not only in law but morally as well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
129
His own fault to post homebrew tutorials on youtube. Only idiots would call it censorship and Nintendo here is right not only in law but morally as well.
Every single aspect of this sentence is wrong. Check out the actual videos flagged:
i don't think MVG is providing any kind of instruction of how to hack the switch, i seen some of his videos, most of them are analyzing the emulation and hardware,
those 4 videos doesn't have instructions on them on how to hack the switch, i think they are blocked just because they have "mario" or first party character showing on several frames on the video.

Even if your first assumption was true, Nintendo still wouldn't be right.
 
Feb 6, 2019
251
Oh lookie here. Another homwbrew/emulation thread that is getting swarmed by Nintendo loyals. They always come to those threads just to scream "piracy!!"
whoever hears you on a vacuum would think Nintendo The Empire, anyone that is morally aligned to em is an Storm Trooper/ Darth Vader while those on the other side think they are Luke skywalker and the Rebels fighting for the peace and the Little Guy.

this is not a white and black argument, both pro and con have their fair share of facts to stand correct and wrong at the same time. so try to drop this non existent higher ground mentality
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,469
Nintendo is just embarrassed that hackers and homebrewers have added more functionality to the Switch than they ever will. Meanwhile people with unhacked consoles like me are allowed to pay a monthly fee for the slow drip of NES games which are in some aspects a step back from the Wii U.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
whoever hears you on a vacuum would think Nintendo The Empire, anyone that is morally aligned to em is an Storm Trooper/ Darth Vader while those on the other side think they are Luke skywalker and the Rebels fighting for the peace and the Little Guy.

this is not a white and black argument, both pro and con have their fair share of facts to stand correct and wrong at the same time. so try to drop this non existent higher ground mentality
Nope. There is no excuse for this shit. Anyone trying to defend Nintendo in this instance is a blind fanboy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,183
London, UK
People on YouTube need to remember YouTube is owned by google. Google sells Nintendo games on the android marketplace. They will side with Nintendo in most of these situations. Also with Google launching their own gaming platform, you’ll be seeing a lot more of this now that they need to work with developers and publishers to sell games.
Google also provide the backend servers for Nintendo Online.
 
Feb 6, 2019
251
There is no excuse for this shit
sorry but you cant prove people that claim to crack the console for HB wont in fact use it for Piracy, but I cant prove they will either. so when present with the choice to let the gateway exist and up to each individual. Nintendo (the ones directly affected) decides to remove the uncertainty, and take that prerogative away from people altogether.
I do think it should have been a better way that issuing DMCA
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,770
UK
Can we start banning people who equate using home brew to piracy? Anytime there’s a thread about home brew it always devolves into the same thing.

It’s kind of disgusting to see not the ignorance in this thread as well as the idea that it’s okay to abuse power because they don’t agree with something.

I’d love to hack my switch. I have zero interest in stealing games. Running Linux and Android on it sounds awesome to me.
This
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,770
UK
Piracy can't be endorsed but homebrew isn't piracy and a DMCA take down isn't something you use to silence someone you don't agree with, who likely won't be able to legally fight it

Nintendo are 100% being dicks here
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,058
If the homebrew scene doesn't wants to be seen as the enabler of piracy, they should actually have a hard stance and help to try to prevent it. Homebrew is clearly guilty of inaction and defending the access, so a company like Nintendo has to go in and make unprecise action against any form of modification.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
If the homebrew scene doesn't wants to be seen as the enabler of piracy, they should actually have a hard stance and help to try to prevent it. Homebrew is clearly guilty of inaction and defending the access, so a company like Nintendo has to go in and make unprecise action against any form of modification.
They do and they have. Try to do some actual research next time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,770
UK
If the homebrew scene doesn't wants to be seen as the enabler of piracy, they should actually have a hard stance and help to try to prevent it. Homebrew is clearly guilty of inaction and defending the access, so a company like Nintendo has to go in and make unprecise action against any form of modification.
There is no official council of homebrew developers with an official spokesman and official policies

If Nintendo are worried about piracy then they should address the service issues where they fall below expectations and try and stop piracy that way, in the same way Valve managed to reduce piracy on PC by offering a better service

There will always be a percentage of people who will pirate games no matter what, and any action to prevent these people from being able to steal should be taken, but homebrew isn't piracy
 
Oct 27, 2017
129
If the homebrew scene doesn't wants to be seen as the enabler of piracy, they should actually have a hard stance and help to try to prevent it. Homebrew is clearly guilty of inaction and defending the access, so a company like Nintendo has to go in and make unprecise action against any form of modification.
Plenty of CFW developers build piracy protections into their CFW, or do things like wait with exploit releases until a platform is dead anyway. However, just like Nintendo can't get security right, the systems get blown open despite whatever protections CFW developers attempt. I know kneejerks are a natural reflex, but try to overcome them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,058
There is no official council of homebrew developers with an official spokesman and official policies
Clearly it isn't common knowledge and such topics should be put more upfront for normal people. Instead many get overall defensive every time and attack people with less knowledge of the topic (like me). Also every homebrew develop can do its part and it becomes a bigger message, when everybody works together.

If Nintendo are worried about piracy then they should address the service issues where they fall below expectations and try and stop piracy that way, in the same way Valve managed to reduce piracy on PC by offering a better service.
Valve doesn't has much of options here. A PC is already an open platform.
Nintendo on the other hand has a closed system without an operating system. They would have to put ressources into a function, which a very small percentage of people will use and may open up there hard- and software for very questionable content (like nude-modes). The closed up system is part of there package, since they want to sell their system to parents. You have clear inflicting interested here (Sony open up the PS3 for Linux … but it could also be seen as an way to dodge taxes, since they wanted to categories the console as pc at the time. And they closed it up anyway again).

There will always be a percentage of people who will pirate games no matter what, and any action to prevent these people from being able to steal should be taken, but homebrew isn't piracy
That's why i can understand, why Nintendo doesn't care for homebrew. No matter what the homebrew scene does, they will always open up the option for piracy. Any company is in a dilemma here and they will always chose money over a few people, who enjoy homebrew.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,338
His own fault to post homebrew tutorials on youtube. Only idiots would call it censorship and Nintendo here is right not only in law but morally as well.
What the fuck are you talking about? Homebrew/cracking hardware is 100% legal. Nintendo would get destroyed if he had the cash and willingness to take them to court over this and they know it.

That's why i can understand, why Nintendo doesn't care for homebrew. No matter what the homebrew scene does, they will always open up the option for piracy. Any company is in a dilemma here and they will always chose money over a few people, who enjoy homebrew.
Newsflash; Nintendo are literally losing money right this second because of their actions. I would have bought a Switch and many games for it - I was in fact planning to as soon as the new hardware is announced/released - and now I fucking won't because Nintendo are garbage. They are losing money over actions like these. Many people buy these types of consoles specifically because it's fun to hack them. I know that's hard for some console warriors around here to understand but not everyone gives a shit about corporate feelings and actually enjoy doing fun stuff with their hardware and software instead.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
Clearly it isn't common knowledge and such topics should be put more upfront for normal people. Instead many get overall defensive every time and attack people with less knowledge of the topic (like me). Also every homebrew develop can do its part and it becomes a bigger message, when everybody works together.


Valve doesn't has much of options here. A PC is already an open platform.
Nintendo on the other hand has a closed system without an operating system. They would have to put ressources into a function, which a very small percentage of people will use and may open up there hard- and software for very questionable content (like nude-modes). The closed up system is part of there package, since they want to sell their system to parents. You have clear inflicting interested here (Sony open up the PS3 for Linux … but it could also be seen as an way to dodge taxes, since they wanted to categories the console as pc at the time. And they closed it up anyway again).


That's why i can understand, why Nintendo doesn't care for homebrew. No matter what the homebrew scene does, they will always open up the option for piracy. Any company is in a dilemma here and they will always chose money over a few people, who enjoy homebrew.
The Xbox One has had homebrew for ages and it has no piracy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,770
UK
That's why i can understand, why Nintendo doesn't care for homebrew. No matter what the homebrew scene does, they will always open up the option for piracy. Any company is in a dilemma here and they will always chose money over a few people, who enjoy homebrew.
Well yeah, Nintendo only care about Nintendo, which is fine, but homebrew is legal and so it's an over reach of power to try and stop people from engaging with that

They're well within their rights to want to combat piracy, but they're not very good at it because at the end of the day, piracy is a service issue and they have always offered terrible services

If you've always had Xbox consoles, you can pretty much play, buy or rebuy all your old Xbox games on your newest system

If you've always owned Nintendo systems, then you can re-buy expensive last gen ports and you can play a handful of NES games you've probably already bought 3 times in the past by paying for another service

Trying to stop homebrew to reduce piracy isn't going to work, for the same reasons that shutting down ROM sites to reduce piracy won't work

There is a demand and they're not meeting it, so others will

It's not right, and no one should be pirating games at all, but if they're attacking homebrew as a means to reduce piracy, it's not going to work
 
Feb 6, 2019
251
The Xbox One has had homebrew for ages and it has no piracy.
Xbox dont have the same heavy hitter IPs nor the "culture" around that "your hardware is shit and so im entitled to pirate your games cause fuck you for never slashing down price" that many seems to fly with when they dip into piracy on Nintendo Devices.
 
Abusing DMCA to attack uploads of something completely legal? Yep, sounds like Youtube.

Also, I'm not surprised that some people on Era still think homebrew=piracy. We still have to add warnings to homebrew threads because some of you can't help yourselves with the derailing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,885
Wait, people are defending Nintendo in here? Bwahaha. Unbelievable. Yeah, I bet this Youtuber was really doing a number on their bottom line.
Hacking Nintendo consoles is serious business.

Seriously, Nintendo is the only company that gets this kind of defense force. As long as someone owns the hardware, they should be able to do whatever they want with it.
 
Feb 6, 2019
251
piracy is a service issue and they have always offered terrible services
HB is a service issue, Piracy is just Piracy (and even this part is a gray area given parts of the world were legal market are not possible or extremely ballooned in price due to local taxes0
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,294
France
-Homebrew is good, I was able to backup my 3DS saves thanks to the devs of these softwares. Very useful in some situations when some services are not available (again backup, streaming, wallpapers etc)
-Modding games can be a blast (randomizer mods for example, adding new characters in Smash Bros...)
-There's obviously some downsides to that, cheating in a solo game is fine, unless you start to fuck the online services (upload your top score online, flood the GTS with fake Pokemon...) but it's the job of Nintendo to clean the mess
-You can indeed pirate games with the right entry point/CFW, that's a fact. It will always be like this and a good number of people are waiting for this
-Fuck the people who pirate or use backup they didn't make to play modern games on their hacked device/PC ("muh shit hardware"), when they have a good enough revenue to buy these games instead. There's some people who are really determined to pirate Nintendo games.
-Be careful when you follow videos to jailbreak something, they may not be up-to-date. Try to look for a written guide instead.
-Nintendo probably abused the system in this specific case, as an uploader myself the shitty system of Youtube can be infuriating, so I share the pain.