Nintendo interrupts Smash Online Invitational Qualifiers commentary to defend its netcode

Oct 25, 2017
1,159
Even when I've played in games where everyone had Ethernet, it's only really been playable. I still can't play as speedy characters online as there's this weird split second delay that makes it a real pain to play. Still playable though.

Get someone without Ethernet though, and you borderline just shouldn't play as the game becomes a slideshow at times. Really, really bad for such a huge game.
 
Feb 2, 2019
257
I don't get why so many Japanese companies completely ignore the rest of the world's internet infrastructure when designing them. Ensuring healthy overseas competitive scenes is more important than ever, and yet they always make half-assed solutions when GGPO exists already.
Did you see how much copies Ultimate sold worldwide ? Nintendo don't care unless it's hitting their wallet. Sad, but true.
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,037
I tried watching it live and that shit was really bad, extremely laggy matches

Also I knew the online for switch was going to be shit, and that's why I haven't purchased it. The trash online service should be free
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,038
Sakurai actually touched on the netcode in an interview.

Since online play is completely synchronized in this game, everything stops if the connection falters. It isn’t like in Splatoon or Mario Kart where you can keep playing smoothly while everything around you lags – everything stops. So, in addition to GSP, online play prioritizes short distances for matchups.
https://nintendoeverything.com/saku...a-plant-character-changes-online-much-more/4/

Since Smash (a platformer) needs to be completely synchronised and tick at 60Hz (Mario Kart is around 25Hz and Splatoon is around 16Hz), it's going to be quite demanding on your connection. 5GHz connections or a LAN cable is recommended for smooth play.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,038
nobody said it's easy,but we ain't exactly talking about an indie dev with limited resources here.

smash bros it's a fighting game, fighting games online have certain requirements to be met to be acceptable,and smash ain't meeting those.

if no game nowadays managed to have a stable netcode i would agree with you, but since that's not the case and we are in 2019, it's nintendo that needs to step up their game instead of the customers being understanding

EDIT:sorry for the double post
Except that Smash isn't a traditional fighter where you can use rollback. It's heavily movement based. Everything needs to be in sync otherwise it all falters. Moves can make you fly at specific directions and players need to adapt to these directions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,722
I've played several matches without any problems. I just don't understand how this is Nintendos fault?
Why don't the people complaining try to develop their own netcode? See how easy it is to fix everyones latency. Every single action needs more bytes to be transferred. Taking one step forward with a character? That's probably SEVERAL THOUSAND BYTES that have to travel possibly hundreds of miles within a second. For comparison sake, A text message is 140 bytes . So imagine that you're sending like atleast a dozen or more text messages simultaneously.
That's why latency happens.


That's not even counting the stress on the hardware. When it suddenly gets this influx of more bytes, it has to delete already existing bytes on the "memory" (also known as RAM), that can cause the game console to get bogged down while having to organize these bytes into bits (a bit is a smaller byte) to save space while at the same time accepting delivery for bytes through the internet.
Ridiculous to blame the devs, blame physics.
I’m actually having trouble breathing, this post is Era’s version of (I’m an expert)
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,322
UK
Exactly, there are a multitude of things that could affect online performance:

- Your ISP's connection quality.
- Your wifi quality.
- The other guy's ISP connection and wifi quality.
- Network congestion.
- Physical distance between you and the other guy.
- The game's online implementation (that is to say, netcode).

Criticising netcode is a far more specific thing that complaining about "online performance", and it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. So take your own advice, and until you learn what netcode actually is, perhaps stop the ironic concern trolling about people criticising netcode without knowing what it is? Thanks.
You don't get to tell me what to do. Thanks.
 
Jun 19, 2018
1,630
Exactly, there are a multitude of things that could affect online performance:

- Your ISP's connection quality.
- Your wifi quality.
- The other guy's ISP connection and wifi quality.
- Network congestion.
- Physical distance between you and the other guy.
- The game's online implementation (that is to say, netcode).

Criticising netcode is a far more specific thing that complaining about "online performance", and it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. So take your own advice, and until you learn what netcode actually is, perhaps stop the ironic concern trolling about people criticising netcode without knowing what it is? Thanks.
People criticize netcodes because everything you mentioned apply to every game's online play, so when they see one game running well online and another struggling despite using the same setup, it's mostly the netcode's fault.
 
Jun 19, 2018
1,630
Except that Smash isn't a traditional fighter where you can use rollback. It's heavily movement based. Everything needs to be in sync otherwise it all falters. Moves can make you fly at specific directions and players need to adapt to these directions.
So just like all other fighting games then...
Actually, having very long input delay and generally longer startup for most actions in Smash than most FGs makes it more suitable for rollbacks, lol.

Only thing that might actually not work as well with rollback netcodes is teams play, but it's not like those work with the current netcode either! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,337
I knew you'd be around, gonna tell us how cheap this service is compared to the other platforms as well? I mean, that's what you keep doing in this thread about Nintendo's online service.

It is awful, sadly, and they haven't learned in so many years. It's very disappointing.
Dude stop harrasing me in every thread if you dont like how I reply, please stop. Thank you. Like you the only one with this unheathy obsession.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
Pulling away from the match like that and making excuses is 100x more embarrassing than just acknowledging network hiccups.

Also Nintendo needs to implement GGPO, but pigs will fly before that happens lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,497
Smash Ultimate is the worst online game I have ever played in terms of connection issues.

Which is dissappointing considering it’s like the biggest fighting game.
 
Oct 30, 2017
639
I've played several matches without any problems. I just don't understand how this is Nintendos fault?
Why don't the people complaining try to develop their own netcode? See how easy it is to fix everyones latency. Every single action needs more bytes to be transferred. Taking one step forward with a character? That's probably SEVERAL THOUSAND BYTES that have to travel possibly hundreds of miles within a second. For comparison sake, A text message is 140 bytes . So imagine that you're sending like atleast a dozen or more text messages simultaneously.
That's why latency happens.


That's not even counting the stress on the hardware. When it suddenly gets this influx of more bytes, it has to delete already existing bytes on the "memory" (also known as RAM), that can cause the game console to get bogged down while having to organize these bytes into bits (a bit is a smaller byte) to save space while at the same time accepting delivery for bytes through the internet.
Ridiculous to blame the devs, blame physics.
This is AMAZING! I don't even know what to say... You are a treasure.
 
OP
OP
Eolz
Oct 25, 2017
5,440
UK/FR
wait if the Netcode is Namco fault, why is(almost) everyone in this thread dragging Nintendo thru the ground about it.??
Nah, not really needed in 1V1 fighters. It's a simple situation of Namco fucking up and Nintendo covering it.
Basically.

The thread was made to highlight the terrible PR, but some people (console warriors or not) are taking it as an opportunity to shit on the Nintendo Online service when it's not related.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,071
ほぼ真ん中の方
"the service has gotten to a really good start"; "the service is off to a great start"; "helped in large part by Super Smash Bros. Ultimate"; "the recen release of Super Smash Bros. Ultimate built on the first surge in membership".
How is this evidence? They're talking about memberships and numbers. They are not discussing the quality of the multiplayer in Smash and how much lag players are experiencing. I want to see your evidence that the majority of Smash players are having a good experience with few connection issues. My friends in real life, and many I see online just have negative experiences. That's not a minority.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,923
I've played several matches without any problems. I just don't understand how this is Nintendos fault?
Why don't the people complaining try to develop their own netcode? See how easy it is to fix everyones latency. Every single action needs more bytes to be transferred. Taking one step forward with a character? That's probably SEVERAL THOUSAND BYTES that have to travel possibly hundreds of miles within a second. For comparison sake, A text message is 140 bytes . So imagine that you're sending like atleast a dozen or more text messages simultaneously.
That's why latency happens.


That's not even counting the stress on the hardware. When it suddenly gets this influx of more bytes, it has to delete already existing bytes on the "memory" (also known as RAM), that can cause the game console to get bogged down while having to organize these bytes into bits (a bit is a smaller byte) to save space while at the same time accepting delivery for bytes through the internet.
Ridiculous to blame the devs, blame physics.
Next time a hear about a plane or boat crash somewhere I’ll blame physics.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,370
I've played several matches without any problems. I just don't understand how this is Nintendos fault?
Why don't the people complaining try to develop their own netcode? See how easy it is to fix everyones latency. Every single action needs more bytes to be transferred. Taking one step forward with a character? That's probably SEVERAL THOUSAND BYTES that have to travel possibly hundreds of miles within a second. For comparison sake, A text message is 140 bytes . So imagine that you're sending like atleast a dozen or more text messages simultaneously.
That's why latency happens.


That's not even counting the stress on the hardware. When it suddenly gets this influx of more bytes, it has to delete already existing bytes on the "memory" (also known as RAM), that can cause the game console to get bogged down while having to organize these bytes into bits (a bit is a smaller byte) to save space while at the same time accepting delivery for bytes through the internet.
Ridiculous to blame the devs, blame physics.
This post will live in infamy!

Mods; please give this man the tag of "SEVERAL THOUSAND BYTES" That links to this post!
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,384
Madrid
I'd rather people just talk about performance being poor than specifically mentioning netcode.
You don't get to tell me what to do. Thanks.
The hypocrisy here is just too much. :D

People criticize netcodes because everything you mentioned apply to every game's online play, so when they see one game running well online and another struggling despite using the same setup, it's mostly the netcode's fault.
That is exactly correct. :) (check the context, and the bolded at the bottom).
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,413
I've played several matches without any problems. I just don't understand how this is Nintendos fault?
Why don't the people complaining try to develop their own netcode? See how easy it is to fix everyones latency. Every single action needs more bytes to be transferred. Taking one step forward with a character? That's probably SEVERAL THOUSAND BYTES that have to travel possibly hundreds of miles within a second. For comparison sake, A text message is 140 bytes . So imagine that you're sending like atleast a dozen or more text messages simultaneously.
That's why latency happens.


That's not even counting the stress on the hardware. When it suddenly gets this influx of more bytes, it has to delete already existing bytes on the "memory" (also known as RAM), that can cause the game console to get bogged down while having to organize these bytes into bits (a bit is a smaller byte) to save space while at the same time accepting delivery for bytes through the internet.
Ridiculous to blame the devs, blame physics.
I’m pretty sure this post isn’t real, but I love it just the same. Classic.

I wish N prioritized online play but they just don’t care. I expect trash and if it’s ever better than trash, I am just pleasantly surprised.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,396
Tampa
Oops let me correct my post online is fine if you're wired AND have good internet
Which is hilarious considering their last two consoles don't even have an Ethernet port. So even if you buy this bullshit adapter, everyone else is still on god awful WiFi.

Its like they don't even want people to enjoy online gaming.
 
Oct 27, 2017
998
Which is hilarious considering their last two consoles don't even have an Ethernet port. So even if you buy this bullshit adapter, everyone else is still on god awful WiFi.

Its like they don't even want people to enjoy online gaming.
Online-games aren't all the same. You can't compare the effort in how to build a good online-performance between online-shooters, -fighters and -platformers. Shooters use a lot of tricks, so that the online-experience work flawless. Also some gameplay allows for a better game-flow in an online-space.

If you look at Smash, it is an unique platform-fighter (so there aren't many references or people with experiences) and the gameplay isn't build for an online-environment. Nintendo may also have not the best online-structure, but there other online-games work and Bandai-Namco has a lot of experiences.
Look no further then PlayStation All-Stars, where people were also very angry about the online-lag in the game.

Of course, as a customer, you shouldn't care for "but it's hard ...", but people in this thread acting like it is an easy task, undersell the effort.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
5,179
Oops let me correct my post online is fine if you're wired AND have good internet
What a bunch of nonsense. I have the ethernet adapter and an extremely fast connection, and the netcode sucks.

Even when I play with friends that also have the ethernet adapter and great internet, the netcode is a hit and miss. And even at peak performance, the netcode's delay is still noticeable on fast characters.
 
Nov 3, 2017
872
I genuinely think that Nintendo believe it’s pretty good, and at the worst playable most of the time.

Like since launch have they even addressed it outside of “online functionality improvements” in patch notes?
considering how nintendo online was made with Japan's infrastructure in mind and NCL doesn't seem to think servers for any games are important because of that (though SSBU won't work with servers anyway) I wouldn't be surprised if Japan having better outcomes than us is the reason why they think it's no big deal since Japan seems to enjoy the service.

1V1 matches are fine on SSBU, even wirelessly if you have a good connection but anything above that can make a laggy mess if all sides aren't stable online. Keep in mind the switch hates 2.4 GHZ Connections and won't play nice with them so anyone who uses that setup, even wired will have tons of issues

And wait, this livestream was of a pre-recorded tourney? That just makes it more sad, especially since NOA has no control over fixing the online quality in the end. Reggie's statement about servers looks dumb now
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,395
How did I know the defence force would be here trying to deflect things onto Namco. Holy shit, Nintendo isn't your friend, as the buck stops at Nintendo with anything they choose to put their names on. If Namco made a shitty online experience, it's still Nintendo's fault. They can't take all the praise as none of the fault
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,574
I've played several matches without any problems. I just don't understand how this is Nintendos fault?
Why don't the people complaining try to develop their own netcode? See how easy it is to fix everyones latency. Every single action needs more bytes to be transferred. Taking one step forward with a character? That's probably SEVERAL THOUSAND BYTES that have to travel possibly hundreds of miles within a second. For comparison sake, A text message is 140 bytes . So imagine that you're sending like atleast a dozen or more text messages simultaneously.
That's why latency happens.


That's not even counting the stress on the hardware. When it suddenly gets this influx of more bytes, it has to delete already existing bytes on the "memory" (also known as RAM), that can cause the game console to get bogged down while having to organize these bytes into bits (a bit is a smaller byte) to save space while at the same time accepting delivery for bytes through the internet.
Ridiculous to blame the devs, blame physics.
*chef's kiss*