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Nintendo interrupts Smash Online Invitational Qualifiers commentary to defend its netcode
- Thread starter Eolz
- Start date
Local wireless between two Switch's doesnt even work properly. Constant lag and stuttering when playing Smash Bros. Pretty sad.
Mate this is the most ridiculous post I've ever read. The fact that you can play Melee online via dolphin and not only get zero stutter but also get zero input lag says it all.
The truth here is that Nintendo don't have the online architecture that Microsoft and Sony do. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
I can't program or design a game but if something's a buggy mess like Fallout 76 I can still criticise it.
I can't build a car but if the wheels fall off and the engine drops out while driving I can criticise it. I doubt anyone would earnestly say that I should "blame physics" in that case.
Smash bros ultimate is not the first online game ever. It's not the only game to deal with the complicated task of sending bytes down a wire so that someone on the receiving end can send their own bytes. They're not breaking new ground, they're a multi billion dollar company charging for a service.
How long ago was that pie chart? You need to let things go.
LMAO just saw this. Fuck off Nintendo. I get it's just some guys hired for the event, but somebody had to tell them to make these excuses right? I don't think they would outright lie this blatantly just because.
The online really sucks, but I keep playing because what else should I do...
The online really sucks, but I keep playing because what else should I do...
That's my problem with it. Online sometimes lag but trying to make it like something different is happening is just pathetic.
Also are Buzzard and Buzzman the same person?
Honestly, this is the most apt commentary I've read.
Their delusional ideas and poor standards is harming so many gamers experience
I'd rather people just talk about performance being poor than specifically mentioning netcode. There are a number of things that could contribute to a poor online experience, net code being just one of them.
The game sometimes cant even handle local wireless without shitting itself. It cant seem to handle fluctuations in ping for both online and local at all, it uses input delay instead of rollback, and im not sure how much of a buffer there is but it certainly doesn't feel anything like local even when vsing people close by and when the game already has immense buffering on a lot of movements even before going online it all adds up to be kind of miserable.
I mean what else are people supposed to say. The way you interact with others online isn't as smooth as other titles. There's no need to be so picky over terms.
You're being nitpicky over nothing and for no good reason. People use netcode as shorthand, that isn't going to change.
This is the most embarrassing / entertaining shit I've read all week. As an actual software engineer with a couple decades of work experience, let me advice the obvious: if all your knowledge of CS comes from reading articles online, please shut your mouth and stop showing your ass. My favorite part has to be "organizing bytes into bits (a bit is a smaller byte)"; literally blush-inducing Star Trek tier technobable. :D Also, if a single "start movement" event takes several freaking Kb to transmit, please fire your netcode programmer yesterday.
The truth of the matter is that lag and especially freezing in online fighting games (given a reasonable connection) is a solved problem. You don't even need to code your own solution, GGPO exists. But Nintendo insists on doing everything themselves, and in this case, doing it half-assedly. There is no excuse for this level of lag and freezing in an online fighting game today. None. Zero. The only way you can believe this is anywhere near normal is if you've not played any non-Nintendo online game in over a decade.
Biggest oof due to a PR statement since "DO YOU PEOPLE NOT HAVE PHONES?!"
Sometimes, silence is a valid option.
Sometimes, silence is a valid option.
Please tell me this is a parody post, no freaking way this is real.
...right?
If a game has stutter and freezes online in the same circumstances that other similar games do not, it has bad netcode. It's really that simple. We are not judging how elegant or well-commented or extensible the code is, the only relevant metric for code quality, for us as users of the program, is functionality. In this case, its functionality is bad, therefore, the code quality is inferior. It's really that simple. There are no other magic factors at play.
"Netcode" is shorthand for "the online implementation of the game". It's every bit as legitimate to criticise it as it is to say a game is "unoptimized", especially by comparing it to competing, comparable products, even if you can't write a hello world program to save your life.
I don't even know what you're talking about. Synchronization, etc. code needed for online play that is interspersed within game logic code is netcode too. Netcode is anything that is responsible for online play, not just the client / connection layer.
Kind of hilarious seeing people going "you don't know what you're talking about, stop criticising it!" when they obviously know even less.
For a second I thought "don't tell me it's copypasta and I fell for it", but I just googled "a bit is a smaller byte" and the only hit I get is this thread, so it does seems genuine. :D
Are people really trying to argue that Nintendo can't be criticized by people who aren't network engineers? That... is a new one. I'm sure nobody arguing that has ever criticized a game's graphics without themselves being successful and competent 3D artists and engineers, right? Right.
Anyway, this is pretty sad to see. I've not been on Switch online yet, but I had hoped these issues would have been long gone by now as I was looking forward to enjoying it, and hope I still get to. Nintendo really need to use some of their resources into improving their online experiences if they want people to start paying for it.
Anyway, this is pretty sad to see. I've not been on Switch online yet, but I had hoped these issues would have been long gone by now as I was looking forward to enjoying it, and hope I still get to. Nintendo really need to use some of their resources into improving their online experiences if they want people to start paying for it.
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net code surely is not up to what Sony and Microsoft run, but whenever Nintendo online comes to topic, but the way some people react you would expect something as bad as Dial-Up tier.
It is yes.
Which is why the title is about the netcode, and not Nintendo's Online, which some people are quick to blame for this issue.
If that was the issue, there'd be similar issues in most (if not all) online switch titles, and it just isn't the case.
Exactly, there are a multitude of things that could affect online performance:
- Your ISP's connection quality.
- Your wifi quality.
- The other guy's ISP connection and wifi quality.
- Network congestion.
- Physical distance between you and the other guy.
- The game's online implementation (that is to say, netcode).
Criticising netcode is a far more specific thing that complaining about "online performance", and it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do. So take your own advice, and until you learn what netcode actually is, perhaps stop the ironic concern trolling about people criticising netcode without knowing what it is? Thanks.
That pretty much sums it up correctly.
Nothing to see here, folks. This is normal and totally not how playing SSBU online feels like!
You can use sarcasm, that doesn't change the fact that Namco did the netcode for this Nintendo product.
wait if the Netcode is Namco fault, why is(almost) everyone in this thread dragging Nintendo thru the ground about it.??
The thing that upsets me isn't that stable online play, in general, is a solved problem. My issue is that perfect online play for Smash Bros. IS a solved problem.
Case in point, last year I bought a toaster computer for 50$ from a buddy of mine (my laptop was even worse) because I found out that Project M Netplay existed. And guess what? Zero lag. Nothing. The vast majority of my online matches were as stable as playing local offline. It completely blew my mind.
Also, keep in mind that I didn't have to pay for an online subscription to achieve that. For many years, I've gotten used to Nintendo always taking the piss when it comes to online in general, but hey, at least it's free, right? Now we actually have to pay for terrible online play. Enough is enough I say.
Case in point, last year I bought a toaster computer for 50$ from a buddy of mine (my laptop was even worse) because I found out that Project M Netplay existed. And guess what? Zero lag. Nothing. The vast majority of my online matches were as stable as playing local offline. It completely blew my mind.
Also, keep in mind that I didn't have to pay for an online subscription to achieve that. For many years, I've gotten used to Nintendo always taking the piss when it comes to online in general, but hey, at least it's free, right? Now we actually have to pay for terrible online play. Enough is enough I say.
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Does Nintendo even have servers for games? As far as I can tell it's all being hosted by the players.
I don't get why so many Japanese companies completely ignore the rest of the world's internet infrastructure when designing them. Ensuring healthy overseas competitive scenes is more important than ever, and yet they always make half-assed solutions when GGPO exists already.
Playing Project M or Melee online and then playing Ultimate is incredibly eye opening.
Because it's their commentators saying everything is actually fine.
Complaining about a shitty service is funny, how? Incompetence can be funny, a service being so barebones as Nintendo's is not. Let people complain away for fuck's sake, Nintendo needs to get their shit right, if they do it'll improve everyone's experiences, including those who feel like they're hurting when Nintendo catches some flak.
Because Nintendo approved the state of this product and continues to excuse it?
I can blame a restaurant for having bad food even if it's a specific chef's fault.
That's cute, Nintendo, but only the most loyal of fanboys believe you're anything but completely inept at all things online related.
And it's also them that would need to order Namco to fix the netcode.
It will be, people are probably saving it for future use like crazy lol.
For the first bit, that was never the point, dont make some strawman by tackling only what you want to tackle instead of the fact that it was about the shitty online. The "proof" you posted literally has 0.0 to do with anything, even if people stopped they immediately get unsubbed. Your entire point is lunacy
Then again, I direct you to the various other sources I posted
Then post me an article where it says it was fixed, "it was just terrible before" wont fly. This attitude of "this isnt everyone, so I guess we will never know" is nonsense. Its like saying "botw isnt a loved game even though tons of people love it since we didnt ask literally everyone in existence if they liked it". Just throwing up your hands and saying I guess we will never truly know is just too ridiculous
I'll repeat myself but 90% of the issues I had with the game (which occur too often) show the typical issues of a bad wireless connection, such as unfrequent lags caused by package loss. The Switch's wireless capabilities are reportedly very bad and I can easily believe it when playing Smash. I rarely have any issues when playing friends I know are using a wired connection.
I sincerely hope they'll one day add connection quality/wired connection to their matchmaking algorithms. But who am I kidding, that's not happening.
I sincerely hope they'll one day add connection quality/wired connection to their matchmaking algorithms. But who am I kidding, that's not happening.
