Nintendo is updating the original Switch with a new CPU and storage

[Gurgelhals]

EDIT: Regarding RAM, it doesn't mention a change in the RAM type or amount but would the RAM bus width depend on the CPU board, which is being changed? Or would they have to specifically mention that too?

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Bandwidth would depend mainly on the SoC and the RAM chips themselves (and only the board if you actually increase the bus width). The current SoC has a 64bit memory interface clocked at 1600Mhz and it's connected to two memory chips with a 32bit interface each. There's two ways to increase memory bandwith there and, given what is in the FCC application, both seem unlikely:

- You use faster RAM, but the FCC application doesn't mention the revision to use different RAM (also, I'm also not sure whether it's actually possible to go higher than 1600Mhz with LPDDR4).
- You use a wider (128bit) memory interface, but this would, again, require different memory chips with a 64bit interface each and the FCC application doesn't mention anything like this.

 

[MXT]

I don't remember any console name leaking before it was announced

We didn't even know the switch lite was going to be called lite

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I don't understand what you are trying to say. I don't disagree with you. What we have this go around is not a leak, it's an official FCC filing.

 

[Skittzo]

Bandwidth would depend mainly on the SoC and the RAM chips themselves (and only the board if you actually increase the bus width). The current SoC has a 64bit memory interface clocked at 1600Mhz and it's connected to two memory chips with a 32bit interface each. There's two ways to increase memory bandwith there and, given what is in the FCC application, both seem unlikely:

- You use faster RAM, but the FCC application doesn't mention the revision to use different RAM (also, I'm also not sure whether it's actually possible to go higher than 1600Mhz with LPDDR4).
- You use a wider (128bit) memory interface, but this would, again, require different memory chips with a 64bit interface each and the FCC application doesn't mention anything like this.

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Ah so a higher bus width would indeed need different RAM chips. That's what I was asking, thanks.

Now that I think about it that seems pretty obvious.

 

[MXT]

Another thing, Nintendo could wait until they announce it before they request a name change, why would they risk leaking what the new system is called before they announce it

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No. They could not do that. That is not how the FCC process works.

 

[BlueManifest]

No. They could not do that. That is not how the FCC process works.

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Why have we never got console names ahead of time then through filings?

 

[MXT]

Why have we never got console names ahead of time then through filings?

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Other device manufacturers submit manuals and submit them under short term confidentiality. What happened this time is Nintendo submitted a revision to an existing product (the original Switch) and submitted it with documentation stating that a new manual is not required for this revision, confirming that this revision uses the existing name.

The Xbox One X naming, to give an example, was announced prior to running through the FCC. Most consoles are announced publicly prior to running through regulatory approval. Those that are announced after FCC filings do not leak due to the short term confidentiality request.

 

[Maple]

Well, this is going to be interesting. We're getting a refresh of the OG Switch which will apparently come in new colors along with massively increased battery life (assuming the battery size stays the same).

I wonder how Nintendo could even market that if the box is just going to be "Nintendo Switch" without any type of modifier in the name denoting the systems with the improved SoC.

 

[MXT]

Well, this is going to be interesting. We're getting a refresh of the OG Switch which will apparently come in new colors along with massively increased battery life (assuming the battery size stays the same).

I wonder how Nintendo could even market that if the box is just going to be "Nintendo Switch" without any type of modifier in the name denoting the systems with the improved SoC.

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Per the FCC filing, the battery size stays the same.

 

[Civilstrife]

I kind of just want HDR support.

(And a better kickstand)

 

[Gurgelhals]

Ah so a higher bus width would indeed need different RAM chips. That's what I was asking, thanks.

Now that I think about it that seems pretty obvious.

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For that matter, a wider bus would also require four instead of two ram chips (4x32bit) as I don't think there are any LPDDR4 chips with a 64bit interface, so this is pretty much out of the question for the Switch. The LPDDR4 chips that are currently mass produced (looking at Samsung here, which is what Nintendo is using afaik) have a higher maximum frequency than 1600Mhz (1866Mhz and 2133Mhz respectively), so there could be some leeway there (that is, if the memory interface of new SoC supports those frequencies as well).

 

[competentcuttlefish]

This is starting to sound more like an AGS-001 to AGS-101 situation where there might be some very minor improvements that the consumer can be made aware of (AGS-101 box mentioned the brighter backlit screen), but they're mostly the same device.

 

[NappingRat]

I kind of just want HDR support.

(And a better kickstand)

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Not that it's likely in the short term, but an HDR and variable refresh rate tablet display would make the thing much more interesting (and I say this as a happy Switch owner).

 

[inner-G]

This is starting to sound more like an AGS-001 to AGS-101 situation where there might be some very minor improvements that the consumer can be made aware of (AGS-101 box mentioned the brighter backlit screen), but they're mostly the same device.

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O the xbox 360 'jasper' revision, where it stayed the same but they just swapped out the chip

 

[Jraphics Horse]

For that matter, a wider bus would also require four instead of two ram chips (4x32bit) as I don't think there are any LPDDR4 chips with a 64bit interface, so this is pretty much out of the question for the Switch. The LPDDR4 chips that are currently mass produced (looking at Samsung here, which is what Nintendo is using afaik) have a higher maximum frequency than 1600Mhz (1866Mhz and 2133Mhz respectively), so there could be some leeway there (that is, if the memory interface of new SoC supports those frequencies as well).

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The Jetson TX2 Module used 2x64bit https://developer.nvidia.com/embedded/jetson-tx2

Samsung currently produce 64bit LPDDR4x, which maybe Nintendo can adopt. (Would have to be 8GB total if there list of available configs applies)

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

For that matter, a wider bus would also require four instead of two ram chips (4x32bit) as I don't think there are any LPDDR4 chips with a 64bit interface, so this is pretty much out of the question for the Switch. The LPDDR4 chips that are currently mass produced (looking at Samsung here, which is what Nintendo is using afaik) have a higher maximum frequency than 1600Mhz (1866Mhz and 2133Mhz respectively), so there could be some leeway there (that is, if the memory interface of new SoC supports those frequencies as well).

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There are. Look at iPads

 

[BlueManifest]

This would be like if Apple released 2 iPhone 10's,
they both had the same name
they both looked the same
and they both were the same price

But one was better than the other

It makes no sense

 

[Lelouch0612]

Per the FCC filing, the battery size stays the same.

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But the SoC will change (probably to have the same as the Mini's), meaning that with the same battery size, you'll get more battery life.

 

[MXT]

But the SoC will change (probably to have the same as the Mini's), meaning that with the same battery size, you'll get more battery life.

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Yes, a lot more. My back-of-the-napkin math suggests additional run time closer to 50% than it is to 30%, but either number equals a very noticeable difference.

 

[MXT]

This would be like if Apple released 2 iPhone 10's,
they both had the same name
they both looked the same
and they both were the same price

But one was better than the other

It makes no sense

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Welcome to Nintendo.

 

[TitanicFall]

I kind of just want HDR support.

(And a better kickstand)

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Existing hardware is already capable of HDR.

 

[ILikeFeet]

This would be like if Apple released 2 iPhone 10's,
they both had the same name
they both looked the same
and they both were the same price

But one was better than the other

It makes no sense

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you forgot the part where one is 3 years old and not being made anymore

but sure, let's continue false equivalences

 

[Maple]

But the SoC will change (probably to have the same as the Mini's), meaning that with the same battery size, you'll get more battery life.

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And it's going to be a significant inrease in battery life. The Lite has a smaller battery yet gets measurably better battery life than the OG Switch. If you combine the Switch's battery size with the new SoC, they battery life improvements are going to be substantial.

 

[Dekuman]

This is starting to sound more like an AGS-001 to AGS-101 situation where there might be some very minor improvements that the consumer can be made aware of (AGS-101 box mentioned the brighter backlit screen), but they're mostly the same device.

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That's because this isn't the pro. WSJ reported 3 models are.being manufactured. they aren't still using 20 nm chips for the OG Switch.

 

[Instro]

O the xbox 360 'jasper' revision, where it stayed the same but they just swapped out the chip

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Yeah that seems like the closest comparison to what is happening here I think.

 

[Skittzo]

you forgot the part where one is 3 years old and not being made anymore

but sure, let's continue false equivalences

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It will still be on store shelves along with the new ones, even if it's not being made.

 

[competentcuttlefish]

That's because this isn't the pro. WSJ reported 3 models are.being manufactured. they aren't still using 20 nm chips for the OG Switch.

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Oh, I wasn't aware WSJ reported on *three* models. Could you provide the link to the article? 🙂

 

[ILikeFeet]

It will still be on store shelves along with the new ones, even if it's not being made.

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and the experience won't be that much different. maybe you'll have to look at the back of the box for the version number or some shit

this is such a non-issue

 

[Tathanen]

Welcome to Nintendo.

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What? Nintendo has never done anything like this before. What a bizarre comment.

 

[Skittzo]

and the experience won't be that much different. maybe you'll have to look at the back of the box for the version number or some shit

this is such a non-issue

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We don't know that. It might have a substantially increased battery life. It might have much better performance in portable mode. Or a mix of both.

 

[Jraphics Horse]

That's because this isn't the pro. WSJ reported 3 models are.being manufactured. they aren't still using 20 nm chips for the OG Switch.

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The ones arriving this month are still using the original chip. I'm sure they'll be phased out pretty quick though, maybe September is still a possibility.

 

[Deleted member 11008]

It will still be on store shelves along with the new ones, even if it's not being made.

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Retail could offer those old units at cheaper prices. Always happen. I expect this happen in the following weeks, before the Lite arrives.

 

[byDoS]

and the experience won't be that much different. maybe you'll have to look at the back of the box for the version number or some shit

this is such a non-issue

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It's a potential issue. You can't say the experience won't be different.

 

[MXT]

What? Nintendo has never done anything like this before. What a bizarre comment.

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Wii versus Wii U, GBA SP versus GBA SP (improved), New 3DS versus 3DS that is on the shelf that is new but is not the model called New

 

[MXT]

and the experience won't be that much different. maybe you'll have to look at the back of the box for the version number or some shit

this is such a non-issue

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A 30%-50% battery life difference is not a non-issue.

 

[Tathanen]

Wii versus Wii U, GBA SP versus GBA SP (improved), New 3DS versus 3DS that is on the shelf that is new but is not the model called New

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The only one of these that is even REMOTELY similar in this instance is the SP+, and it is marketed as "improved" quite notably on its packaging.

 

[Skittzo]

Retail could offer those old units at cheaper prices. Always happen. I expect this happen in the following weeks, before the Lite arrives.

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How could they do that if they're not differentiating the product at all?

The situation as we know it right now has Nintendo updating the new Switch with new internals without being able to name it or market it any differently. If that's the case then it will cause a lot of confusion since it will have upgraded features (either battery life or performance).

 

[MXT]

The only one of these that is even REMOTELY similar in this instance is the SP+, and it is marketed as "improved" quite notably on its packaging.

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I disagree.

 

[Tathanen]

I disagree.

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Well, alright.

 

[bmfrosty]

I found this-

From here- https://switchbrew.org/wiki/PPC_services#PerformanceMode

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Thanks for finding that! I've been looking for it.

What gets me with this table, is that I can describe a scenario where the Lite and the 2019 revision get a hidden boost somewhere down the line. It really depends on what can be done with each version of the SoC:

Original SoC could have 0x10001 and 0x20000 opened up in portable mode.
2019 SoC could also have those modes opened up in portable mode and in addition could have 7.0.0+ modes opened up for Docked mode full time.

None of this has to be opened up right away. It could happen with a big release. I'm going to use Witcher III as the example. Let's say that they're having problems bringing it to market because the portable modes are just too slow for the game - even with textures and models turned way down. Nintendo could allow games on a case by case basis to use the docked mode while undocked.

I am also reluctant to believe that the Lite can't do HDMI out. We'll see if the PI3USB30532 is present after a teardown.

This could play out in a similar way to the 333mhz unlock for the PSP all those years ago.

 

[Deleted member 36708]

I don't think this revised Switch is meant to be a mass upgrade console like the XBOX or PS4 Pro. Nintendo is probably going to market it as the normal Switch and just save money on the production.

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I guess that fine but this whole thing is confusing and I will just wait for more information. Too much speculation I don't think anyone really knows what they will do. Let's just say neither of the options would get me to spend money on another switch.

The plan is probably just to revise the internals of the Switch. They are swapping the 2017 Switch with this.

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We shall see what happens. It just doesn't make sense to me will they not even market it as a upgrade switch? Like just don't tell anyone phase them out and call it a day. I don't think it's worth marketing a 1-2 hour battery life increase.

 

[BlueManifest]

Welcome to Nintendo.

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Not even Nintendo has done something like that before

 

[bmfrosty]

Hey MXT - I think you believe what you're saying. I don't know if what you're saying is correct. Can you link something official to back up your statement? I think that would help.

 

[Instro]

Well hopefully we get an actual Pro model down the line, or an early jump to the Switch 2. Next year or 2021. Sticking with the OG switch after that point would be rather rough given the performance issues it already has. I'll trade in for this revision if it offers any performance boosts, but I'm hoping at the very least they just unlock the higher end portable mode for all games, rather than just the handful that use it now.

 

[MXT]

Hey MXT - I think you believe what you're saying. I don't know if what you're saying is correct. Can you link something official to back up your statement? I think that would help.

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Which statement?

 

[Skittzo]

Thanks for finding that! I've been looking for it.

What gets me with this table, is that I can describe a scenario where the Lite and the 2019 revision get a hidden boost somewhere down the line. It really depends on what can be done with each version of the SoC:

Original SoC could have 0x10001 and 0x20000 opened up in portable mode.
2019 SoC could also have those modes opened up in portable mode and in addition could have 7.0.0+ modes opened up for Docked mode full time.

None of this has to be opened up right away. It could happen with a big release. I'm going to use Witcher III as the example. Let's say that they're having problems bringing it to market because the portable modes are just too slow for the game - even with textures and models turned way down. Nintendo could allow games on a case by case basis to use the docked mode while undocked.

I am also reluctant to believe that the Lite can't do HDMI out. We'll see if the PI3USB30532 is present after a teardown.

This could play out in a similar way to the 333mhz unlock for the PSP all those years ago.

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Yeah, I can see all of this happening too. I expect additional profiles to be added too, once Mariko revision is out for a little while.

The original SoC can already do docked mode clocks perfectly fine, with reduced battery life. All Nintendo has to do is quietly change the battery life range on their website from 2.5-6 to something like 2-8 hours, that could cover all of the bases.

Do you think it's too much to expect all handheld mode games on the Mariko SoC to default to the 460MHz configs? I feel like that should be achievable and still give a boost in battery life given what we know about the Switch Lite's battery life.

 

[bmfrosty]

Which statement?

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The one you've repeated multiple times about them not being able to change the name of the product if it has the same FCC ID.

If you get something official to back it up, you'll get other posters to back you up.

 

[MXT]

The one you've repeated multiple times about them not being able to change the name of the product if it has the same FCC ID.

If you get something official to back it up, you'll get other posters to back you up.

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That argument isn't even really relevant at this point - that they didn't submit an updated manual (they stated this product does not require one) ends the argument about the name.

I don't wish to do law school homework about the FCC to win a discussion online.

 

[Eslayer]

They want to stop producing the original soc, so they put the one from the lite into the original switch. Then next year they launch the revisio.

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I get that, but this could result in the Switch having instant gains like longer battery life. The filing gave me the feeling that they would make a very dramatic change to something of the Switch (like its battery life) and stay quiet about it because they're asking for permissive changes to the current one rather than a whole new filing for something that could offer a different experience compared to the currently manufactured model. Would they even be able to name it something differently?

Don't really know how to put it

Like did other revisions/enhanced systems go through a "Class II Permission Change" say, a PS4 to PS4 Slim rather than have to get recertified?

 

[MXT]

I get that, but this could result in the Switch having instant gains like longer battery life. The filing gave me the feeling that they would make a very dramatic change to something of the Switch (like its battery life) and stay quiet about it because they're asking for permissive changes to the current one rather than a whole new filing for something that could offer a different experience compared to the currently manufactured model. Would they even be able to name it something differently?

Don't really know how to put it

Like did other revisions/enhanced systems go through a "Class II Permission Change" say, a PS4 to PS4 Slim rather than have to get recertified?

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The PS4 slim went through as a new device, not as a revision request.

 

[Falus]

I want a 2nd Switch for sure. Want my actual one for home brew. Don't want a lite because it's a crippled machine for me. Will take that revision *if* we have either a perf boost / battery. Or will wait for pro