Nintendo of Japan apologizes for not telling customers that TMS #FE Encore is based on altered Western version of the original, offering full refunds

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,692
Couldn't a similar case be made for something like yakuza though with how they run and yet nothing at least in the main story was changed. What about-ism aside definitely still think that the understanding part could've been fixed with better explanation of the industry the cultural acceptance possibly could've been an issue but we have no real way of knowing
The Yakuza games have had pretty major changes, even if they arent necessarily main story changes.

But, again, what is the difference between "censoring" one thing for cultural reasons vs "censoring" another for cultural reasons. You said one example was fine but why isn't the other.
 

Amakuni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
79
It isn't, because by entering a contract with your publisher you're allowing them to stick their hand into your work.
If they alter the finished product for another market (again solely to avoid controversy that maybe, might, has the slightest chance of occurring so why take the risk), a 3rd party is changing said product outside of the creators intent. Not saying they're wrong to do so, they paid for it they can do whatever they want. Just saying its censorship.

Not saying this specific type of game censorship is always bad, its definitely case by case. Some of these changes are entirely necessary, there would be an online shit storm if Zanki Zero was released as is in the west. With this game, I think the wedding dress alteration looks silly and the removal of hip shading (lol vagina bones) might have been a little unnecessary.

At least the next big Nintendo RPG crossover probably won't be centered around Idol culture.
 

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
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Okay guys I'm gonna tap out this thread is too depressing and filled with people who have an absolute lack of self awareness or an understanding of why the arguments they're making reflect the things they do

Good luck, y'all
 

¡ B 0 0 P !

Member
Apr 4, 2019
1,638
Greater Toronto Area
I purposefully watch stuff to get disturbed, yes. It's a good way to test your level of empathy. Obviously not child porn, but I have seen footage of people getting killed (suicide or murder) purposefully to get disturbed, because you need to be disturbed every once in a while to truly appreciate things.
What? Why? I.... I... just can't believe. Why not watch Horror movies instead of real life snuff footage?
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,869
There is a weird dichotemy on this board between Dont sexualize the women!/Don’t censor the sexualized girls/women in my japanese games!!!
It is pretty blatant and disturbing (added the girls part to the second one.

Of course, nothing will be done about it.

it fundamentaly was though

how else are we supposed to take "i like watching things when they make me uncomfortable" when it's being said in the context of this entire thread, and more importantly, why would you think that an argument worth making given the context of the entire thread while demonstrating an awareness of how it could be taken. By making a statement that even needs that clarification, you're okay with making a statement that could be read as such, and thus, you're defense reads as a mere token effort.

We can see right through you.
Say it.
 

Oheao

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
8,172
London, Ontario, Canada
it fundamentaly was though

how else are we supposed to take "i like watching things when they make me uncomfortable" when it's being said in the context of this entire thread, and more importantly, why would you think that an argument worth making given the context of the entire thread and while demonstrating an awareness of how it could be taken.

We can see right through you.
I didn't say that you should like watching things because they make you uncomfortable, I said that getting uncomfortable is a sign of empathy.
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,001
Madrid
We're sort of saying the same thing but I'm taking very minor umbridge with the way it's being said. I like formulating arguments so that ideas I don't want to have wiggle room don't start out with it at all because I know that people skim past like the first sentence. It's a tricky art and I don't always get it right, myself. Adapting arguments for how they'll be consumed on the platform they're being presented on is an important part of making impactful arguments.
The only idea L Thammy and you seems not to agree with, if that, is that you think all free speech absolutists are pedophiles, while he says they're either pedophiles, or utterly amoral people who will side with pedophiles when it suits their economic interests (but will as quickly drop them when it doesn't, thus revealing to care as little for freedom of speech itself as the first group does). At no point did he claim there was any group that genuinely defended absolute free speech for the actual, pure, ideological reasons either of the former groups claim.
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,748
I purposefully watch stuff to get disturbed, yes. It's a good way to test your level of empathy. Obviously not child porn, but I have seen footage of people getting killed (suicide or murder) purposefully to get disturbed, because you need to be disturbed every once in a while to truly appreciate things.
I remember being 16
Weird times tbh
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,692
If they alter the finished product for another market (again solely to avoid controversy that maybe, might, has the slightest chance of occurring so why take the risk), a 3rd party is changing said product outside of the creators intent.
1) Atlus was involved with the changes
2) A game like this is already a massive collaboration with no single creator
3) What makes Nintendo and IntSys not partial creators here
 

jerk

Member
Nov 6, 2017
598
It was a game about japanese idols and gravure idols (that was a 20 year old), probably shouldn't have made the game about japanese idols if they have to censor themselves for that content. 16-20 year old idols in bikinis etc. make it a pedo game now? That's a bit much and wrong by definition.

You would have to throw out 90% of every J-RPGS hot well scenes or dlc costumes etc. from Persona to Final Fantasy, Tales etc. etc.
Oh yes, please continue with the definition.

And yeah, it's very prevalent in jrpgs. That's a bad thing.
 

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
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The only idea L Thammy and you seems not to agree with, if that, is that you think all free speech absolutists are pedophiles,
No, I think free speech absolutists who mysteriously seem to be the loudest when they are defending pedophilia are all just pedophiles. The others are usually just nazis or idiots. It's an important distinction.
 

Kyser73

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
QLD, Australia
Era - a place posting a picture of a guillotine in a political thread will get you banned but openly promoting ephebophilia in gaming is a-ok.
 

Stryda

Member
Aug 20, 2018
291
The Yakuza games have had pretty major changes, even if they arent necessarily main story changes.

But, again, what is the difference between "censoring" one thing for cultural reasons vs "censoring" another for cultural reasons. You said one example was fine but why isn't the other.
One changes the way an entire arc in the story was written and told the other is just a harmless to the plot name change. Doesn't help that the villain of that arc was a supposed creep himself and taking normal pictures doesn't really work in context
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,001
Madrid
but I have seen footage of people getting killed (suicide or murder) purposefully to get disturbed, because you need to be disturbed every once in a while to truly appreciate things.
What the actual fuck. You mean, like, actual snuff? You feel the need to watch snuff to feel empathy for your fellow human beings?

Get psychological help, like yesterday. I don't mean this dismissively, I mean it literally. :S
 

jerk

Member
Nov 6, 2017
598
I purposefully watch stuff to get disturbed, yes. It's a good way to test your level of empathy. Obviously not child porn, but I have seen footage of people getting killed (suicide or murder) purposefully to get disturbed, because you need to be disturbed every once in a while to truly appreciate things.
uh
 

Oheao

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
8,172
London, Ontario, Canada
What the actual fuck. You mean, like, actual snuff? You feel the need to watch snuff to feel empathy for your fellow human beings?

Get psychological help, like yesterday. I don't mean this dismissively, I mean it literally. :S
You think I haven't? But of course that's not what I'm worried about right now, I guess I shouldn't have said anything because now people think I'm some pedophile when that's not true. I have never watched child porn in my life.
 

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
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You think I haven't? But of course that's not what I'm worried about right now, I guess I shouldn't have said anything because now people think I'm some pedophile when that's not true. I have never watched child porn in my life.
do you know the meaning of "thou doth protest too much"? Because that's how you started this argument out and people are literally just reacting to that but no you're doubling down and i just

i can't
 

Oheao

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Oct 28, 2017
8,172
London, Ontario, Canada
I'm sorry guys, I realized I made a big mistake. I never wanted you guys to think I considered child porn OK, it's NOT OK. I am disgusted by it. I have never watched it before. I guess I should take a break. I'm sorry.
 

Yasumi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,184
I purposefully watch stuff to get disturbed, yes. It's a good way to test your level of empathy. Obviously not child porn, but I have seen footage of people getting killed (suicide or murder) purposefully to get disturbed, because you need to be disturbed every once in a while to truly appreciate things.
That's uhh... a bit much. I was mostly referring to stuff like Inio Asano or Nisioisin books. >.>
 

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,001
Madrid
You think I haven't? But of course that's not what I'm worried about right now, I guess I shouldn't have said anything because now people think I'm some pedophile when that's not true. I have never watched child porn in my life.
Last post in this thread, but: if you know what you're doing is beyond messed up, perhaps don't use it as a positive example for others to follow. And please don't pretend that's not what you were doing. Or do just that, I don't care. G'night.
 

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
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Well, what am I supposed to do? Will anyone believe me? I assure you I have never done so, but it's not like that's something I can prove.
My point is that this was the best foot forward you put out yourself. Nobody in their fucking life should have to predicate their own fucking argument with "obviously, not child porn" because how the fuck is anybody supposed to fucking take that

my god!

i feel like I"m going insane
 

Oheao

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
8,172
London, Ontario, Canada
My point is that this was the best foot forward you put out yourself. Nobody in their fucking life should have to predicate their own fucking argument with "obviously, not child porn" because how the fuck is anybody supposed to fucking take that

my god!

i feel like I"m going insane
I guess I meant that there is a line that should never be crossed no matter what, and I consider child porn to be that line. I guess I should have known that others would take it as meaning something other than that..
 

Amakuni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
79
1) Atlus was involved with the changes
2) A game like this is already a massive collaboration with no single creator
3) What makes Nintendo and IntSys not partial creators here
1) They altered the game under direct orders from Treehouse. They didn't have a say in it (not saying they were opposed to it or anything).
2) Yes it was, they released the finished product of the JP release. The game was complete, and content was altered/removed specifically for the Western release because concerns with the hypothetical public perception of some of those elements.
3). They had a hand in development so they are. This just goes back to point 2 though.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,692
One changes the way an entire arc in the story was written and told the other is just a harmless to the plot name change. Doesn't help that the villain of that arc was a supposed creep himself and taking normal pictures doesn't really work in context
But both changes have very clear cultural reasons behind them. Why is it wrong to change the story if it would be culturally upsetting?

Not to mention the gravure photographer was doing more than just taking normal pictures in the western version. He was trying to make Tsubasa do stuff she wasmt comfortable doing (including wearing a revealing outfit that just wasn't shown on scream, given the arc now ends with Tsubasa chosing her own clothes for the shoot)
 

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
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I guess I meant that there is a line that should never be crossed no matter what, and I consider child porn to be that line. I guess I should have known that others would take it as meaning something other than that..
your argument should never need to contain "not child porn though lol"

never

never ever

never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever
 

Oheao

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
8,172
London, Ontario, Canada
your argument should never need to contain "not child porn though lol"

never

never ever

never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever
OK, I apologize.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,692
1) They altered the game under direct orders from Treehouse. They didn't have a say in it (not saying they were opposed to it or anything).
Some of the changes (especially rerecording dialog) go above and beyond what would be necessary to do the things Nintendo clearly would have wanted. Atlus had a hand.
 

BassForever

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,673
CT
This has, and continues to be, the biggest nothing burger controversy since the cut face petting in Fire Emblen Fates. The 90 seconds of content that was edited/cut from the western version of a 40-60 hour game is so insignificant you basically have to be looking for it. To do so means you’re actively trying to look at underaged girls in skeevy positions, and it says more about you then Nintendo/Atlus.
 

Windows-PC

Member
Oct 28, 2017
123
There are multiple ways to show the world that you are a pedophile minded, one way is to cancel your pre order of TMS #FE Encore on the Nintendo Switch.
 

Stryda

Member
Aug 20, 2018
291
But both changes have very clear cultural reasons behind them. Why is it wrong to change the story if it would be culturally upsetting?
I mean I'd prefer if plot specific content wasn't changed if the name had real plot significance I wouldn't want that changed either its not exactly specific to that other situation.
 

Perona

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Oct 31, 2017
349
User Banned (5 Days): Dismissive Drive-By Posting.
We're just calling people pedophiles over an anime game now huh.