just pipe in the audio from Bethsada's E3 press conference under Elden Ring with a few of these thumbnails
Nintendo sends a cease and desist to insider that has leaked pretty much every E3 2019 announcement
- Thread starter Atheerios
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Not sure what she expected. When you sing from the rooftops over and over that you are going to spoil a bunch of shit you shouldn't have access to, you may very well get the attention of one of the companies that you are spilling the secrets of.
Exactly.
It's not worth getting fame this way it only gets you in legal trouble.
Thank you for taking your time to answer! And thank you for the recommendations, I'll check them out.
How is it petty? Nintendo clearly are fed up of all the peaks, especially after everything got ruined after last e3. Can you blame them?
This thread has more than proven that these posters honestly don't give a damn about the developers. Like no one has been able to answer my question of, "what is the benefit of gamers knowing information that will be fully revealed in 48 hours or less", nor have I have I gotten a response when I gave a real world example of a developer having their game leaked and then torn apart by the internet without them having a way to properly present it because someone wanted fame for being one of the first to leak a Switch exclusive.
That and people who work in marketing are less than human because they work for 'cooperation'.
It was only ruined for certain gamers. The actual response outside of the Reset bubble was positive and actually increased Switch sells as noted by Ben and Matt.
We all know how fucked the switch was when it got leaked. No excitement. No one bought one. Real shame. No one will be buying the refresh either im sure.
Good, I don't like leaks. Imagine making a game for years and you're finally ready to release it to everyone at once, and then someone hungry for fame and followers leaks it on Twitter days/weeks beforehand.
Imagine Keanu being leaked before the E3 conference. Imagine the Eldenring not being leaked and instead being more of a surprise at E3.
Fuck leakers, wait a week and find out. Hopefully more companies follow Nintendo.
Imagine Keanu being leaked before the E3 conference. Imagine the Eldenring not being leaked and instead being more of a surprise at E3.
Fuck leakers, wait a week and find out. Hopefully more companies follow Nintendo.
well people love smash but i could have used 25 minutes less of it.
yeah, didn't odyssey and splatoon a couple of other games leak two days before the switch reveal?
This post is really missing the point. We have developers actually come on here and talked about how leaks hurt, and you can only response with a snark post.
That's fine, but most people loved it. Like, I don't give a rat ass about Metroid, but I'm not going to be butt hurt if Nintendo did a 25 minute breakdown E3 presentation on it because I know people loved Metroid and would enjoy seeing it. And it isn't like Smash stole 25 minutes off the presentation that could have gone to Game A or B.
Leaking isn't breaking the law unless you are directly related to the company and signed an NDA yourself. Nintendo can get away with this because they know no one is going to spend the millions needed to fight them.
Its a commercial
It is copyright infringement. Everything someone makes is protected by copyright. If you talk about Game of Thrones, you're talking about someone's copyrighted work. That's copyright infringement. Unless it's fair use. This is very simple, and why I am asking you to simply google what copyright infringement actually is. You believe it is making derivative works, but that's a small part of what it is. I figured DMCA strikes would be a helpful clue to you, but you seem to only be out to making arguments for yourself and completely disregarding everything I'm saying. There's little I can do when someone's factually wrong and refuses to be corrected, so have a nice day.
Leaking the existence of a game is devastating for the people who work hard to make sure it's announced in the best possible way, and absolutely has an impact on developers alike. Developers all over have said this time and time again, it's worth listening to them.
Leaking is breaking copyright. Particularly the copyright holder's right to first publish, which is a big part of copyright law. The only way a leak isn't copyright infringement is if it's fair use. I've gone over the four factors of fair use in an earlier post in this thread, in case you're interested in seeing it.
A commercial put together by people who spent months planning for this day. Why should their hard work be spoiled because some asshole want to be famous on Twitter? Why should developers who spent years working on a project and looking forward to sharing it on there terms be denied this right because someone want their 15 minutes of fame?
Off topic but this is such a missed opportunity to quote Thanos' "I am inevitable."
No its not or else this site and every single other games journalism website would have been sued into oblivion years ago
The industry has too big a problem with this, good on Nintendo taking action. Nothing worse than an incomplete leak screwing the real announcement with all info.
A leak years in advance with some general bullet points is fine, but just days ahead of a reveal is so awful.
A leak years in advance with some general bullet points is fine, but just days ahead of a reveal is so awful.
Wow it's like saying "Pot is prohibited because it's illegal"
How about you show us some cases where the studio/publisher/etc won, against an news outlet, reporting on something that wasn't public by time of their report in the media industry?
It is. Fair use is an affirmative defense. It means that even if you're copyright infringing, you're allowed to do so. Fair use is a special case of affirmative defense, in the fact that a company must make a prima facie case before it can continue further. When you're talking about GOT with your friends, you're likely providing context or it's otherwise transformative. Along with the other four factors of fair use, it ends up being obvious fair use. It's not really commonly known that that's how copyright works, and that's the way it should be. Fair use is protected in many ways to allow free commentary and criticism. But it's interesting to know that that's how it actually works.
I mean you could just get off social media, with how everything is connected sadly leaks are going to happen.
Because people who work in the games industry aren't real people, they're just bits of plastic that can be assembled to form the logo of their company at a seconds notice. They don't sleep, or eat, and they're full of string.
Do you feel the same about all commercials or just video games
This is a really unhealthy point of view. Like, when the subtitle for the next Marvel movie leaks a day early, do you think about the guy who thought up the subtitle?
I mean, the Watch Tower v Darkspilver/Reddit/EFF case that's ongoing is very relevant to all this. They, however, seem to not be able to establish a prima facie case, but you can see how all of this is applied by watching Leonard French's videos on the matter. He goes over all of this.
- Reddit joins EFF to fight Watchtower/Darkspilver Subpoena
- Judge Kneecaps Watch Tower Subpoena to Reddit
- Why the Judge was WRONG in Watch Tower Subpoena Ruling
EDIT: Summary of the case. Darkspilver posted copyrighted material on Reddit. Watch Tower wants his identity. He doesn't want to give it, because Jehovah's Witnesses are known to shun those that speak out against it. Darkspilver says he posted the copyrighted work to provide commentary. The four factors of fair use have been used in this case, and establish that there's maximum a weak case for this not being fair use. Watch Tower says they need the identity to continue, everyone else says they don't. It's about copyright and published work, and it goes around the workings of how these cases go, what the normal arguments are, and there's a lot of references to Highfield, which is informative.
I mean, you could probably just look up Highfield itself.
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I feel people who work in my industry, and any industry, don't want their work fucked up by people hungry for internet clicks. Developers keep saying this time and time again, if you want to ignore them, you do you, but leaks absolutely affect people.
So do you think people who get excited about a project theyre working on and leak it to the public are just the worst human beings imaginable?
No, see, it can also be fair use. But the leak itself may not be fair use. In this case, it's just a leak to leak. That's not fair use. If you leak to provide commentary, that may be covered by fair use.
It seems counter-intuitive, but the law is set up so that everything is copyright infringement, unless it isn't. Outside of the other way around. Again what's called an affirmative defense. That's why it MAY be fair use.
The fuck are you even asking? People who break NDA fucking suck, yes.
Acting like game developers are these infallible beings who totally don't have their opinions influenced by the very industry they work is misguided and is honestly making me roll my eyes.
Betraying a companies trust and intentionally leaking confidential stuff is poor behavior, but let's stop acting like it's rational for devs to become blubbering emotional messes because people know what their working on.
Jason is arguing that leaks are in fact news, and we should stop acting like the end product is forever tainted because we missed on a few canned uproarious applauses and Youtube reactions. We're here because we play videogames, right?
Betraying a companies trust and intentionally leaking confidential stuff is poor behavior, but let's stop acting like it's rational for devs to become blubbering emotional messes because people know what their working on.
Jason is arguing that leaks are in fact news, and we should stop acting like the end product is forever tainted because we missed on a few canned uproarious applauses and Youtube reactions. We're here because we play videogames, right?
Yeah that would have been a better annoucement if Bandai wasn't full of holes.
Yeah which isn't good if you're trying to leak things for a long time.
Why should we limit our speech just to make sure that an ad for a product can be as effective that it can be?
I honestly don't understand why that should be something that I should care about on any level, I really don't.
I'm asking about cases where you just don't post material that is clearly copyrighted on the internet but TALK ABOUT IT liek Jason Schreier does so many times. Is that so unclear?
At this point I'm genuinely curious, do you believe in confidentiality on any level?
Yes. Commercials are hard and requires a lot of research to make sure you reach the right audience, your message is clear, you cover any misunderstanding that could happen, you don't cross into unfortunate Implication, ect. This is doubly hard if you're marketing to a global audience that have different values and cultures.
And leaking the subtitle of an upcoming movie is nowhere near the same as leaking a game, especially a game with a weird premise like Mario with a gun fighting with co-playing Rabbid. The fact that you and others don't seem what to acknowledge the human angle here is really baffling, especially when the people who work in the industry says its harmful and even demoralizing. Instead, we get whataboutthem from defenders who can't answer why should these people hard work be spoiled because someone want fame?
As far as I know, she’s been “leaking” things since last year, but I guess her record was Markus Seller-tier because nobody really cared. It wasn’t until recently she probably came into contact with someone who was very close to E3.
Personally I think she’s just very naive. I think she said she decided to leak things because she got tired of the fake leaks getting attention. From this I just imagine she decided to become the “best, most accurate leaker”. That’s why she takes so much pride in her leaks, constantly bragging about how she got this and that right.
As far as the “are leaks good or bad” conversation, I believe there are a couple of layers.
First, I do not think we are entitled to a disclosure of a company’s projects. You’re not “sticking it to the big guy” by leaking information on a video game. You are free to find the information or read leaks at your leisure, but it’s not some noble practice.
Second, video games have developed a culture where being surprised is a big part of the industry, especially when it comes to E3. E3 is treated like a show with an audience. If we want to compare it with movies, it’s no different than being spoiled with the contents of the movie. Except here you are being spoiled with the contents of a show. It may be alien to you, but I don’t think this culture actually hurts anyone, even if I think it can be strange at times.
Third, going off the last point, some of the retaliation against leaks is definitely fueled by fanboyism, at least when it comes to E3. You always want your company to have the best show, and if leaks spoil a surprise that would help that, then naturally you’d be opposed to leaks. This is the part where corporation worship comes into play, I think. This is the point where I feel complaining about leaks or spoilers gets a little silly.
Fourth, however, there is a human element. Leaking demonstrably hurts developers. We have examples of this, yet people continue to ignore it and focus on the corporate side of the issue. As I’ve mentioned before, E3 is like a show, and people work hard to surprise those watching it. I can’t tell you if that’s a good or bad thing (I mean I lean toward the “it’s not hurting anyone to view video games this way” stance), but that’s how things are with video games, and it’s unique in that regard compared to other media. It demonstrably hurts developers when their “surprise” is spoiled. Surprise is as a part of video game reveals as it is things like marriage proposals or a pregnancy. People find joy in surprising others. I would feel bad if a someone had their surprise marriage proposal spoiled because it would feel awful for the man or woman planning the proposal. You want to engineer the surprise yourself, and it would suck if someone out there just told your significant other you were going to propose before you did it. Again, this concept might sound alien to you, but like I said I don’t think video games having this culture is inherently dangerous (this is obviously different when a whistleblower alerts people about working conditions), and the idea of a developer being upset at a spoilt reveal is not hypothetical. We have examples posted here.
Personally, I am not harmed by leaks. If I really wanted to avoid spoilers, I’d just stop going to video game websites. But I do feel bad for the developers. Yes, in the long run, most of the time it doesn’t matter. The game still comes out and sells copies, but have some empathy for the developers who were excited at the idea of surprising you. I’m not saying you shouldn’t leak or read leaks if you want. That’s up to you. But at least acknowledge how leaks can negatively impact people. All of these “it’s just marketing” posts disregard the human element of the industry.
It's call human emphasis. Something severely lacking around here, which comes off as funny given all the 'think of the developers' posts on this site. But I guess all that is just propaganda to stick it to 'cooperations' since stuff like leaks that developers say hurt gets a 'who gives a damn' reaction around here because leaks are seen as 'good' for the gamer.
Talking about copyrighted work is nothing different from posting it, in the eyes of the law. So the cases are relevant. In this case, the leaks are written, anyway, so what are you arguing the difference is? I don't mind clarifying.
The thing is, it still might be fair use. Fair use is affirmative defense, so first you're kinda found guilty for breaking the copyright –by establishing a prima facie case – then you can affirm your defense via fair use. So while the leak most definitely is copyright infringement, the question is if it's fair use.
The human element is about as authentic as the sassy Wendy's twitter account. Most folks don't give a shit where leaks come from or from who, they just want to know.
People investing this much into video game marketing are a symptom of the overall and severe problem that is toxic gaming culture.
You've posted with views that indirectly say you don't believe authors of their works have any rights over their works. It's why you're being asked just how few rights you think people should have for making something.