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mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
Thats not even true. Sabi's leak tweets are being shared everywhere lol Its pretty tasteless to leak a show on the day it starts.
Nah, it's not really that hard.
I haven't seen them here posted in the wild,
the few vids I watched, only the clearly marked ones talked about it.
At this point if you wanna avoid leaks, it's not even complicated.
Some outlets are known for sharing leaks....because they're media and media is like that because it's their jobs to report on stuff they know.
If you wanna avoid news, don't put on CNN.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
Name one thing not a AAA video game that had the brakes put on it because people saw a trailer for it a day before the trailer's release.
I don't know if you'd even be able to point at a AAA video game that had the brakes put on it because people "saw a trailer for it a day before the trailer's release" or its thunder was somehow otherwise stolen. It's harder to prove this shit, and its effects are subtler than that. Leaks may mean an imperfect pitch, a bad first impression, fewer eyes on the actual marketing material. The thing doesn't doesn't get its opportunity to put its best foot forward and then... presumably sales are lost. Maybe even a lot of them. But you can't prove even a single sale that didn't happen would have otherwise been made.
 

HeroR

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
7,450
How does a commercial leaking a few days before hurt the developers? Literally every other entertainment industry seems to deal with it fine but gaming is special because????

It hurt in other industries too, but we're talking about the gaming industry here. So why is the go to argument whataboutthem? That and we literally have accounts about leaks hurting developers.

Finally, if you're going to get the information in a few days, what the bloody hell do you gain from leaking it other than the leaker getting famous?
 

thonerayman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,801
There goes an incredible amount of hard work into managing and timing those "commercials" especially when dealing with third party studios like Google, Microsoft, Sony etc. Even leaking it a few days in advance can put to risk those deals risking the lively hoods of devs.

The shortsightedness I am reading in the threads these past week from people who have no clue what they are talking about claiming there is no damage done with leaks. it risks hard working legit developers lose their lively hoods by threatening valuable deals around a product they are making. Behind that corporate shell are artist, programmers, sound designers, writers, QA that make these wonderful game experiences you all love possible. but sure lets defend a scummy leaker because you peope have some idea of sticking it to the man ambracing it like Sabi is robinhood fighting for the poor.

If a commercial leaking early jeopardizes the deals these companies made then that's a cultural problem with the industry.
 

SynoHun

Banned
Jun 7, 2019
27
There goes an incredible amount of hard work into managing and timing those "commercials" especially when dealing with third party studios like Google, Microsoft, Sony etc. Even leaking it a few days in advance can put to risk those deals risking the lively hoods of devs.

The shortsightedness I am reading in the threads these past week from people who have no clue what they are talking about claiming there is no damage done with leaks. it risks hard working legit developers lose their lively hoods by threatening valuable deals around a product they are making. Behind that corporate shell are artist, programmers, sound designers, writers, QA that make these wonderful game experiences you all love possible. but sure lets defend a scummy leaker because you peope have some idea of sticking it to the man ambracing it like sebi is robinhood fighting for the poor.

How ? I'm curious. How can leaking something two days prior an event make developers lose deals ? If the product is good, it's good, regardless of it being leaked.

I think people also overestimate how many people actually see those leaks. Among the millions of people who will buy Halo, how many have followed Sabi's leaks on his Twitter page ? 100 000 at best ? Seems small to me to have an actual impact.
 

goldenpp73

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,144
Ok. And if that commercial gets leaked a few days before hand so what? People are still seeing it.

Imagine if you had all your Christmas presents under the tree, waited the whole month, and then someone left you a tissue with chicken scratch noting the contents of them a few days prior. Now imagine the day you go to open said gifts and pretend you're all excited about it. Human nature means we like to create a moment and enjoy that moment, while also being combated by our desire to know at the same time. If your wife to be finds her future engagement ring and it spoils your plan, who cares right?

It might be just video games, just marketing, etc, but there are people with passion to bring these to us and deliver their message the best they can, and on their end they're likely more excited to show us than we are to see it. Breaking down the system just so you can get a quick peak definitely ruins a moment both for them and us usually. I myself am torn because I enjoy getting leaks or rumors, but also don't enjoy the crushing disappointment them being total lies usually entails. At least if we only rely on official info we won't have that stupid cycle.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
She was going to though and Nintendo pre-empted it
giphy.gif
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
I don't know if you'd even be able to point at a AAA video game that had the brakes put on it because people "saw a trailer for it a day before the trailer's release" or its thunder was somehow otherwise stolen.

So far people have tried to prove it by sourcing Splatoon and Mario Rabbids.

fewer eyes on the actual marketing material.

Leaks are literally putting eyes on the material. How is it not "putting the best foot forward" when it's literally the same toe, foot, ankle, and shoe except everyone gets to see it a day before intended?
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,782
Maybe the problem isn't the leaks but how toxic and shitty game development is?
Tell me mr not a developer, how toxic and shitty is gamedevelopment?
You imagine every developer chained to a desk? Are there serious problems in this industry? sure but those are unrelated to this issue.
Devs have the right to release information on their own goddamn terms, not on the terms of some twitter person
 

HeroR

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
7,450
Huh. And was the game cancelled? Did sales tank? Did Nintendo swear to never work with Ubisoft again? Will there never be another Mario crossover?



Oh. Huh. Imagine that.

Yeah, imagine that after all the mental anguish that was completely unneeded. All because some leaker wanted to be famous. But we gamers got a good game, so who cares if he suffered.
 

HeroR

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
7,450
"Stop talking about how this is only a self inflicted problem for a small number of people and literally not a problem for everyone else".

Again, your deflecting from the topic with, 'well about that this', when we're talking about the game industry and how real people are hurt. And we even got accounts how leaks hurt people negatively that for some reason are just dismissed in the same breath as people talking about fighting for developers.
 

ChaosZeroX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,370
Tell me mr not a developer, how toxic and shitty is gamedevelopment?
You imagine every developer chained to a desk? Are there serious problems in this industry? sure but those are unrelated to this issue.
Devs have the right to release information on their own goddamn terms, not on the terms of some twitter person
While I do agree with this, it also would be intriguing to know how this twitter person got the information
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
So far people have tried to prove it by sourcing Splatoon and Mario Rabbids.



Leaks are literally putting eyes on the material. How is it not "putting the best foot forward" when it's literally the same toe, foot, ankle, and shoe except everyone gets to see it a day before intended?

Ok for the Splatoon prototype thing, an entire team was canned and it eventually dissolved. That kind of is a big deal to that team. Sure the game got made eventually, but are you really ignoring the fact that an entire team was essentially tore itself apart over this?
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Devs have the right to release information on their own goddamn terms

Publishers decide when to release that information. No one in development has never been asked "When should we release this game trailer?"

All because some leaker wanted to be famous.

No one cares about who the leaker is. I knew all of Sabi's leaks and had no idea who they were until this thread was created because Nintendo Streisand'd the whole thing.
 

Static

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,107
So far people have tried to prove it by sourcing Splatoon and Mario Rabbids.
Okay.
Leaks are literally putting eyes on the material. How is it not "putting the best foot forward" when it's literally the same toe, foot, ankle, and shoe except everyone gets to see it a day before intended?
Sabi's tweets are not the same thing as the press conferences, no. I think your own citation of Mario rabbids is a good example that the leaks and their reception were definitely NOT the same thing as the E3 Presentation.
 

Nax

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 10, 2018
6,672
Seems like there are a lot of people who just are never gunna get it...A severe lack of empathy maybe? I dunno. But some people here are truly sad.

Let companies control their message. End of freaking story. Don't defend leaks/leakers.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Tell me mr not a developer, how toxic and shitty is gamedevelopment?
You imagine every developer chained to a desk? Are there serious problems in this industry? sure but those are unrelated to this issue.
Devs have the right to release information on their own goddamn terms, not on the terms of some twitter person
If something getting leaked is causing this much stress and anxiety about your job security in the industry then yeah, sounds pretty bad.
 

Wolfapo

Member
Dec 27, 2017
536
Tell me mr not a developer, how toxic and shitty is gamedevelopment?
You imagine every developer chained to a desk? Are there serious problems in this industry? sure but those are unrelated to this issue.
Devs have the right to release information on their own goddamn terms, not on the terms of some twitter person

It seems like the perception of game development or working in the gaming industry in general must be the worst thing ever...
There are problems, yes. But they have nothing do with the topic at hand.
 

HOTSPUR

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,868
A commercial made by developers to sell the product we spent years making to be able to make more games for you guys out of a passion for this industry.


this is true, do these same people defend leaks in the movie/music industry?

it doesn't matter if the content is made to promote a project, it was still made by people who are passionate about problems.

i'm not upset about being 'spoiled,' but leaking every publisher's e3 is a pretty shit thing to do
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Publishers decide when to release that information. No one in development has never been asked "When should we release this game trailer?"



No one cares about who the leaker is. I knew all of Sabi's leaks and had no idea who they were until this thread was created because Nintendo Streisand'd the whole thing.

I mean...you're arguing with those working in the gaming industry that you know more than that person.
 
Jan 10, 2018
6,327
There were no brakes on Mario Rabbids. Some of you just took the exclusively leak based knowledge about it, ran with it and made the developers suffer almost to a breaking point.

Whatever amuses you I guess.
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,171
I'm all about leaks, but some of you people are just self-centered about it. "leaking material is just as good as the marketing schedule in putting eyes on the project, fuck off if you try to stop us, devs."

Pathetic.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Maybe the problem isn't the leaks but how toxic and shitty game development is?
What has one to do with the other? How did your question even adress anything in EVIL's post? There's nothing toxic and shitty about devs spendings years on a project and marketing of these publishers putting a huge effort into showing the dev's result of their hard work on their own terms.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Ok for the Splatoon prototype thing, an entire team was canned and it eventually dissolved. That kind of is a big deal to that team. Sure the game got made eventually, but are you really ignoring the fact that an entire team was essentially tore itself apart over this?

Games are prototyped, started, stopped, and developers are phased up and down all the time. That's not because of "leaks" but because of how the industry works as a whole.

While I do agree with this, it also would be intriguing to know how this twitter person got the information

Good point, and I hadn't even considered this.

All the leaks are coming from devs, so....
 

TheRuralJuror

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,497
this is true, do these same people defend leaks in the movie/music industry?

it doesn't matter if the content is made to promote a project, it was still made by people who are passionate about problems.

i'm not upset about being 'spoiled,' but leaking every publisher's e3 is a pretty shit thing to do

Most people know the names/themes of move projects in advance without the industry falling apart. As many of these leaks were similar in scope, I don't see why it's such a big deal when games are concerned personally.
 

Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
To me a leak is when actual marketing materials are released ahead of reveal. Art work, video, etc. Saying, "Nintendo is releasing Pikmin 4 Q4 2020" isn't clearing that bar.

I also don't get the "journalists!" angle. Breaking a story about embezzlement or labour practices is journalism, getting the street date isn't clearing that bar either.
 

HamCormier

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
1,040
If something getting leaked is causing this much stress and anxiety about your job security in the industry then yeah, sounds pretty bad.
Are you an artist? That's a pretty familiar feeling for any artist that has its work released to the public. It's not outlandish to believe that a controlled message that displays your work under the best light ever is better than a shitty leaked and incomplete version of your work.
 

Septimius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
823
I can't believe you're actually arguing this.

We've had game outlets like Kotaku reporting on leaks from their sources, leaks which nobody was aware of before that. Like several projects from Ubisoft and Bethesda. Assassin's Creeds and their titles and settings, what kind of game Fallout 76 is.

If what you're saying was actually illegal these outlets would have been long sued into the ground. It is not.

It's fair to assume it was one of two things. Either fair use, or wasn't taken to court.

But how could Nintendo even force her to stop. Did sabi sign NDAs?

Copyright.
 

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,340
I'd assume the means by which she got the info was illegally obtained, either by breaking an NDA or hacking
If she herself didn't break an NDA or something like that, it doesn't matter. Her source might be on the hook if discovered, not herself. It's just that Nintendo can afford to do this as she wouldn't be financially able to go through an entire trial.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,764
I mean if it's just a line with a piece of information instead of the full promo material being leaked, how is it any different from any old leak like that cute Metroid Prime 4 @ Game Awards?
I can get taking legal action after the promo material has been stolen but this?
 

ShinobiBk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 28, 2017
10,121
How ? I'm curious. How can leaking something two days prior an event make developers lose deals ? If the product is good, it's good, regardless of it being leaked.

I think people also overestimate how many people actually see those leaks. Among the millions of people who will buy Halo, how many have followed Sabi's leaks on his Twitter page ? 100 000 at best ? Seems small to me to have an actual impact.

Who the hell was this obvious alt account?
27 posts lol that didn't last long
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,837
If she herself didn't break an NDA or something like that, it doesn't matter. Her source might be on the hook if discovered, not herself. It's just that Nintendo can afford to do this as she wouldn't be financially able to go through an entire trial.
Does this not fall under trade secrets or whatever?
 

m0dus

Truant Pixel
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,034
If a commercial leaking early jeopardizes the deals these companies made then that's a cultural problem with the industry.

Well, there are many, MANY cultural problems with this industry. That's a given. But that's a discussion well above and beyond the scope of this conversation.

Money is spent on production, media positioning, air-time, etc. trying to vie for the best possible impressions, social media mentions, preorder availability, etc. It's not cheap, and it's occasionally detrimental to the product in question when said announcements leak. You lose control of the conversation.
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,282
Those corporations use specialized lawyer firms who easily fish out your IP, adress and name through a request to the provider. Normally it takes them a couple weeks tho to send out the mail, Nintendo just used a expedited procedure to get it through before the presentation.
Based solely on the last day or so I'm beginning to think that Sabi isn't that smart or slick.
Based on this post...
So lets get a quick rundown of the Sabi situation and this leak(s) that are supposed to go down

-Tells everyone when they will get their info
-Pinned tweet about where they share the info from their sources
-Mentioning other ppl's namse that have similar info
-Discord where leaks are supposed to go down is all in the social media profile too

giphy.gif


Is this fool serious right now?? Safe to say you and your source(s)wont be around long. Stay safe out here though.....
...I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo just Googled it.
So you think it's really just a case of not using any VPN or other identity protection measures?
...How can you get insiders to trust you with their info and identity if you don't take the basic measures to protect your own? Eh.
 

delete12345

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
19,665
Boston, MA
I mean if it's just a line with a piece of information instead of the full promo material being leaked, how is it any different from any old leak like that cute Metroid Prime 4 @ Game Awards?
The argument is about preventing bad impressions on an otherwise potentially great game from tarnishing it.Vague information tends to spread misinformation around if it gets out of hand.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,837
I mean if it's just a line with a piece of information instead of the full promo material being leaked, how is it any different from any old leak like that cute Metroid Prime 4 @ Game Awards?
I can get taking legal action after the promo material has been stolen but this?
Because one was a rumor and the other was basically a 100% success rate read off of the whole thing
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,376
Ok for the Splatoon prototype thing, an entire team was canned and it eventually dissolved. That kind of is a big deal to that team. Sure the game got made eventually, but are you really ignoring the fact that an entire team was essentially tore itself apart over this?
How did a leak cause this?
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Games are prototyped, started, stopped, and developers are phased up and down all the time. That's not because of "leaks" but because of how the industry works as a whole.

So the developer and multiple members of the team who say 'We were dissolved because of leaks" who said this in private interviews for investigative journalism are wrong? Like...I don't know what to say here then. Are your words just inherently more trustworthy than the people who directly stated this?