Nintendo sends a cease and desist to insider that has leaked pretty much every E3 2019 announcement

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,389
The argument is about preventing bad impressions on an otherwise potentially great game from tarnishing it.Vague information tends to spread misinformation around if it gets out of hand.
That's the job of the marketing team.
You're all fine and all about making pro bono work for mega corps but really as long as it affects the likes of Nintendo or Microsoft, I fail to see how that is any of our problem.
Because one was a rumor and the other was basically a 100% success rate read off of the whole thing
the thing is the rumor is trying to pass off as the real thing so you know ...
 

Wolfapo

Member
Dec 27, 2017
127
I don't disagree with this. My problem is the mentality that "this game i was working on got it's trailer leaked and now i have to worry about whether i have a job anymore".
It just creates distrust between companies, which could lead to a bad reputation and later on to less contracts, thus less manpower needed.
It's extreme, but a possibility.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,729
How did a leak cause this?
The "splatoon prototype" (it's only called that because the prototype had a similar-ish gimmick to Splatoon. It was a far different game in reality) was a working title between Nintendo and a third-party studio. A lot of money was put into development time. When concept about this was leaked to the public. Nintendo pulled the plug. This not only costed the third-party studio a ton of money, but created a culture of distrust within the company that eventually caused people to leave in mass and the company to collapse among itself.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,389
Leaking one or maybe two games ahead of time with a vague hint is one thing.

Spoiling an entire press conference that people put time and money into to surprise and make people happy is another. Especially doing it literally hours before the official reveal since the only reason to do that is to get cred. Or worse, to purposely hurt the presentation like what happened with High Res.
Welcome to the world of competing under capitalism.
That is not clearly illegal and that is part of the tools available to damage or bolster the reputation of companies.
Also I would suggest using older examples because I have no idea what high Res is.
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,159
the thing is the rumor is trying to pass off as the real thing so you know ...
So I know what? That no legal action was taken because it was a lie and not the entire lineup getting jacked? Falling stealing the list and ACTUALLY stealing the list are different things, and by now we KNOW it's the real thing
 

Baji Boxer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,087
The "splatoon prototype" (it's only called that because the prototype had a similar-ish gimmick to Splatoon. It was a far different game in reality) was a working title between Nintendo and a third-party studio. A lot of money was put into development time. When concept about this was leaked to the public. Nintendo pulled the plug. This not only costed the third-party studio a ton of money, but created a culture of distrust within the company that eventually caused people to leave in mass and the company to collapse among itself.
Ah, I see. I'd completely missed this event somehow.
 

WestEgg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,783
That was worse. The entire game document leaked.
I’m on the “leaks are bad” side, though I sometimes wonder if Mario Rabbids benefitted from having people get their hot takes out of the way long before E3 so that when it did debut, the conversation was pleasant surprise about how good it looked than how bizarre the premise was. Of course, this is the exception rather than the rule if that’s the case, and I can only imagine the reactions if it had been a surprise as intended.
 

CodyV

Member
Jan 5, 2018
9
Nintendo is like the kid that would get beat up in school.

Snitches get stitches.
You mean like every kid who had issues speaking up for their self? As if the child who has to face constant bullying has done something to deserve that treatment. “Haha it’s funny cause you got beat up”. Yeah no thanks.
 

HeroR

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
4,534
Welcome to the world of competing under capitalism.
That is not clearly illegal and that is part of the tools available to damage or bolster the reputation of companies.
Also I would suggest using older examples because I have no idea what high Res is.
This isn't about being legal. It's understanding the human cost of leaking. It doesn't just hurt 'cooperation' as some try to paint it.

I used Rabbid several dozen times now, but that is by far the most vicious example of a leak that cause a bunch of anguished to the developers to the point that they questioned if the game itself was a mistake.

That and we have a thread here posted several times with actual developers who talked about how leaks hurt.

And most of this doesn't happened because of 'competing under capitalism' since most of these leakers don't get paid. It happened because people want internet fame most of the time.
 

Silent

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
491
Even if we were to disregard the potential of larger consequences from leaks, the fact that developers like having their surprises work out is a good enough reason not to leak for some people.
 
Jan 10, 2018
3,432
That's the job of the marketing team.
You're all fine and all about making pro bono work for mega corps but really as long as it affects the likes of Nintendo or Microsoft, I fail to see how that is any of our problem.

the thing is the rumor is trying to pass off as the real thing so you know ...
Developers suffer emotionally when shitbags like us trash their game based on our limited leaked knowledge.

The big wigs couldn't give less crap about your impressive grandstanding and at best fire people and shut down projects.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,830
I don't think it changes anything, its the principle of the matter and respectful to the developer showing what they've been working on.
I don't think the media spectacle and "respect" go hand in hand. If you want to respect a dev, buy the game, enjoy it, and advocate for it.

Publisher's don't showcase games at E3 because they love developers. They don't concoct this ridiculous, unique to them ad blitz out of respect. They do it because they want you to buy their product.

Big AAA game publishers wouldn't release games that are a complete and buggy mess if they respected developers and their time and skills. But they do release unfinished games. All the time.

Todd Howard got out there and threw his dev team to the wolves with Fallout 76.

You know Mario Rabbids happened, right?
And was a success.
 

delete12345

Member
Nov 17, 2017
5,395
Nintendo must have bombshells they don't want to be spoiled. Like games that aren't announced yet. Other wise this is a waste of time.
It's also possible it's the other way around. Nintendo, as publisher, has to make sure leaked info doesn't tarnish the 3rd party developers. Otherwise, Nintendo can actually get sued by the 3rd party developers, because of reputation loss.
 

Septimius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
417
I thought theft of trade secrets is another way to prosecute?
I'm sure there may be multiple laws at hand, all depending on how the information was obtained. I just see copyright as one certain venue.

You said yourself just leaking things is not fair use. That's what these outlets often do. And Bethesda for example went so far as to stop giving Kotaku any review codes or anything like that, so why would they shy down from suing them if they could?

The answer is because leaking like that isn't illegal.
That's a poor legal argument. Everyone was holding their breath when Nintendo started enforcing copyright on YouTube. Everyone was wondering if they'd take someone to court over let's plays. No one's been taken to court, so there's no legal precedence. Same thing with leaks, I'm guessing. Let's plays may be fair use, they may not. Same with these leaks. I'm not saying it's illegal, I'm saying this pertains to copyright. It is copyright infringement. The question is if it is fair use.

Game news outlets aside, I've never seen a major publication openly leak things from entertainment in any way. There is, of course, a possibility to claim it's public knowledge once it's been spread far and wide. Being the source for a leak puts you in a different position, anyway. Doing so with providing no commentary is even worse. I'm guessing at least Kotaku articles provide commentary in some way, so that gives a better case if it were ever to go to trial.

What I'm saying is that Nintendo would be able to establish a prima facie case against this leaker, so I see it as a viable venue to go to court over. I'd follow the case closely, because it'd be really interesting to see the court's interpretation of such a case. I'm not saying it's illegal. I understand that it may be understood that way when I explain how copyright works, in the fact that Fair Use is an affirmative defense. It is once you've been found to breach copyright that you can defend against it as fair use. So it is copyright infringement, but it may not be illegal.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,389
This isn't about being legal. It's understanding the human cost of leaking. It doesn't just hurt 'cooperation' as some try to paint it.

I used Rabbid several dozen times now, but that is by far the most vicious example of a leak that cause a bunch of anguished to the developers to the point that they questioned if the game itself was a mistake.

That and we have a thread here posted several times with actual developers who talked about how leaks hurt.

And most of this doesn't happened because of 'competing under capitalism' since most of these leakers don't get paid. It happened because people want internet fame most of the time.
I don't think I have seen this in this industry but I fully expect 1 company to make leak happens to damage a project of a competitor.
I guess expect is a strong word, I should say I wouldn't be surprised.

The leaks are a problem of either bad employees or someone not taking their job seriously.
If you're working for a software dev in a partnership and you do not realize that you can cause your whole team to collapse or even your whole place of employment go puff on a leak you're not in the correct business.
I would assume that anyone privy to sensitive information would not be stupid enough to share them easily.
Developers suffer emotionally when shitbags like us trash their game based on our limited leaked knowledge.

The big wigs couldn't give less crap about your impressive grandstanding and at best fire people and shut down projects.
Spare me the waterworks, they have about a million reasons to suffer these days and this really shouldn't be high on the list.
When they're able to unionize and defend their rights against constant corporate abuse maybe this will seem important.
No one gave a shit about the devs of some project that was trashed because of a bad e3 impression as well.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,830
? People shat on it before the actual announcement.
But it was successful, so who cares about the actual human suffering.
Ya'll act like people don't already shit on every video game.

People shit talked the game before official release, during, and after and still shit on it today.

If the game had not leaked the only thing different would be the "before official release" part.

Developers get treated like shit, regardless of leaks.
 
Jan 10, 2018
3,432
I don't think the media spectacle and "respect" go hand in hand. If you want to respect a dev, buy the game, enjoy it, and advocate for it.

Publisher's don't showcase games at E3 because they love developers. They don't concoct this ridiculous, unique to them ad blitz out of respect. They do it because they want you to buy their product.

Big AAA game publishers wouldn't release games that are a complete and buggy mess if they respected developers and their time and skills. But they do release unfinished games. All the time.

Todd Howard got out there and threw his dev team to the wolves with Fallout 76.



And was a success.
You being completely okay with the devs suffering, makes me aware that I put you on ignore way too late. So thank you ✌
 

Septimius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
417
Ya'll act like people don't already shit on every video game.

People shit talked the game before official release, during, and after and still shit on it today.

If the game had not leaked the only thing different would be the "before official release" part.

Developers get treated like shit, regardless of leaks.
Your arguments are terrible, and I think you should feel bad. You're saying things are related that aren't, you're saying it doesn't matter because it's just video games. You're basically saying that all your reasons should somehow impede an author's ability to control what reaches the public when. That's a slippery slope.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,389
Ya'll act like people don't already shit on every video game.

People shit talked the game before official release, during, and after and still shit on it today.

If the game had not leaked the only thing different would be the "before official release" part.

Developers get treated like shit, regardless of leaks.
It's not even limited to games,
Look at the Fox Xmen movies when it was known that they would keep making them.
No one had any info but the name of a director and the internet went WAM on it.
No reasons are needed to shit on an unreleased product.
 

i-hate-u

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,095
Calm down guys it's a joke.

But leakers in this industry is nothing new. This used to be way worse last gen/
 

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,998
Eve
I’m on the “leaks are bad” side, though I sometimes wonder if Mario Rabbids benefitted from having people get their hot takes out of the way long before E3 so that when it did debut, the conversation was pleasant surprise about how good it looked than how bizarre the premise was. Of course, this is the exception rather than the rule if that’s the case, and I can only imagine the reactions if it had been a surprise as intended.
Even then it was not a complete success when the team was having a horrible depressing time reading the shitty comments through the whole internet the first weeks. Yes, its was super emotional once it was showed, but those were not only cries of happiness but also some other worse bottled up emotions realesed (thnakfully) that day.
Im pretty sure, because ive been on their side, that before it leaked they thought the video presentarion would have showed perfectly what they really wanted to create, so a lot of the team were probably sad at the notion of people not seem to understand what they wanted to do with the leak explanation and were scared the video would have the same effect. Their optimism for the project probably tool a hard blow the next day.
 

doodlewhizz

Member
Jan 9, 2019
733
Ya'll act like people don't already shit on every video game.

People shit talked the game before official release, during, and after and still shit on it today.

If the game had not leaked the only thing different would be the "before official release" part.

Developers get treated like shit, regardless of leaks.
People generally stopped talking shit about the game after official reveal press conference - but that doesn't negate the resoundingly immature and reaction the game got when it was leaked which affected the dev team as has been mentioned here countless times.

The fact it was well received on reveal means that all the leak really did was detrimentally affect the dev team.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,830
People generally stopped talking shit about the game after official reveal press conference - but that doesn't negate the resoundingly immature and reaction the game got when it was leaked which affected the dev team as has been mentioned here countless times.

The fact it was well received on reveal means that all the leak really did was detrimentally affect the dev team.
IME the expectations to the game were incredibly low up until people actually got it in their hands.

No reasons are needed to shit on an unreleased product.
None of my arguments are in defense of people being shit bags.

The media spectacle of E3 feeds into the hype machine and the meta.
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
934
If you're going to show me a trailer tomorrow but I am able to see it today, how does that change anything?
Some ideas:
•Not final version (price, promotion, tagline). Gamers especially hate any disperancies between different versions of a product. Hypothetically, last minute changes could even be related to the leaking process itself.
•Not "news" anymore, so not covered as fervently by the press (the "news" is dilluted between the two separate "releases", covering the same news twice might not be as interesting). That's less true if there's some time between the leak and the release.
•The release is getting disconnected from the event it was planned to be a part of (if the marketing for the event itself was bigger than the news).
That doesn't affect gaming afficionados who will hear about everything that happens in the industry.

Those are not applicable to every leak though. Case-by-case.
Others mentionned contractual obligations. Here, Nintendo mentionned "trade secret", maybe something they are afraid the concurrence might use if timing is right?
 
Last edited:
Jan 10, 2018
3,432
I don't think I have seen this in this industry but I fully expect 1 company to make leak happens to damage a project of a competitor.
I guess expect is a strong word, I should say I wouldn't be surprised.

The leaks are a problem of either bad employees or someone not taking their job seriously.
If you're working for a software dev in a partnership and you do not realize that you can cause your whole team to collapse or even your whole place of employment go puff on a leak you're not in the correct business.
I would assume that anyone privy to sensitive information would not be stupid enough to share them easily.

Spare me the waterworks, they have about a million reasons to suffer these days and this really shouldn't be high on the list.
When they're able to unionize and defend their rights against constant corporate abuse maybe this will seem important.
No one gave a shit about the devs of some project that was trashed because of a bad e3 impression as well.
And another one. Why the ugliness?
 

Baji Boxer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,087
For those arguing the legality of this, I'd say the legal standing of the cease and desist order doesn't really matter, the letter is just as effective either way. Leaking this info isn't really gaining her anything beyond attention, and it isn't any kind of important journalism. Fighting it or inviting legal action over this just isn't worth it.
 

Syriel

Member
Dec 13, 2017
4,925
Yeah how do you do that to a person that is just saying stuff? As long as they not trying to make a buck
If the person is just reporting, there is no grounds other than intimidation.

If the person has broken an NDA, actively worked to entice someone to break an NDA (offering to pay a third party would qualify, asking someone for info over drinks would not), or acted criminally (hacking into a system), then they aren't protected and can be sued into oblivion.

Copyright would not apply here.

If she herself didn't break an NDA or something like that, it doesn't matter. Her source might be on the hook if discovered, not herself. It's just that Nintendo can afford to do this as she wouldn't be financially able to go through an entire trial.
If she did cross the line, then it is very smart to back down. If not, then the threat is likely just that, a threat.

Companies threaten legal action against journalists. It happens. They rarely ever follow through as they know it is a losing battle, unless the journo has broken the law. And that just covers the publication aspect. Depending on context, anti-SLAPP laws could also come into play, which would be very bad for the party doing the threatening.

I thought theft of trade secrets is another way to prosecute?
Does this not fall under trade secrets or whatever?
Product announcements and release dates aren't trade secrets.

Source code for a console OS might qualify.
 

doodlewhizz

Member
Jan 9, 2019
733
IME the expectations to the game were incredibly low up until people actually got it in their hands.
You're likely misremembering as the hatred before the reveal was so vitriolic. Just your usual amount of skepticism which all games tend to get - if you look for Reddit threads and comment sections in posts about the reveal there are a lot of people quite surprised about how good it looks (not sure about how GAF took the news, wasn't around then).

Plus David Soliani became a mini gaming-internet sensation which earned the game more goodwill.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,389
And another one. Why the ugliness?
emotional manipulation by appealing to emotion is rather bad, don't do that when no one is really willing to do the myriad of other things that would make their lives so much better already.
It's rather shitty to be like "don't be too mean to games because devs will be sad" when we're in an industry that crush devs on the regular and the hype machine is partly responsible for the increasing expectations that crush more devs.