Nintendo sends a cease and desist to insider that has leaked pretty much every E3 2019 announcement

Oct 29, 2017
4,851
Some ideas:
•Not final version (price, promotion, tagline). Gamers especially hate any disperancies between different versions of a product. Hypothetically, last minute changes could even be related to the leaking process itself.
•Not "news" anymore, so not covered as fervently by the press (the "news" is dilluted between the two separate "releases", covering the same news twice might not be as interesting). That's less true if there's some time between the leak and the release.
•The release is getting disconnected from the event it was planned to be a part of (if the marketing for the event itself was bigger than the news).

Those are not applicable to every leak though. Case-by-case.
Others mentionned contractual obligations. Here, Nintendo mentionned "trade secret", maybe something they are afraid the concurrence might use if timing is right?

I think these are fair statements. We might disagree as to how impactful they are to the overall product/sales/etc.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
You're likely misremembering as the hatred before the reveal was so vitriolic. Just your usual amount of skepticism which all games tend to get - if you look for GAF/Reddit threads and comment sections in posts about the reveal there are a lot of people quite surprised about how good it looks. Plus David Soliani became a mini gaming-internet sensation which earned the game more goodwill.
The one thing I remember the most about the game is listening to the Giant Bombcast and Gerstmann (and crew) being skeptical of the game prior to playing it and then talking it up after enjoying it.

Obviously that's way better the the hostile mind fuck that is gaming culture, but point is, I don't think anyone being skeptical of the game would have changed had they seen the proper reveal versus the leak itself.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
Are you kidding me? He's talking about people and you're equating it to corporations? Gtfo with this awful take
If you think devs suffer because of "leaks" and not because the AAA industry is a toxic and abusive minefield of which the spoiler culture and hype machine are part of, and if you think this gives you some kind of moral high ground while defending the latter, then your priorities are in the wrong place.

Saying "you don't agree with me so you must hate people" is a cop out.
 

Vermillion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,947
Movie concepts, stories, cast, and etc are known for years and I am not aware of any movie ever being cancelled because the trailer for it was leaked a week before a convention.
They're known after that information is released... And surprises are held back.

They don't cancel big movies for getting leaked, but they release the info at a specific timing, enforce contracts, and fire people for breaking contracts.

Come on, now.

EDIT: A verified dev already criticized your logic. But you're clearly more concerned with your view than the actual devs themselves. So please, explain to them how they're hurt. You know better than anyone, of course.
 

doodlewhizz

Member
Jan 9, 2019
743
The one thing I remember the most about the game is listening to the Giant Bombcast and Gerstmann (and crew) being skeptical of the game prior to playing it and then talking it up after enjoying it.

Obviously that's way better the the hostile mind fuck that is gaming culture, but point is, I don't think anyone being skeptical of the game would have changed had they seen the proper reveal versus the leak itself.
...but those comment sections have quite a few people saying they were excepting something terrible and it looked good. Their opinions changed once they saw the game being shown off as the developer intended, rather than what hey'd seen/heard/read through leaks - first Google search I could find was this article on Polygon which has a number of comments like this.
 

Braaier

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,433
If you think devs suffer because of "leaks" and not because the AAA industry is a toxic and abusive minefield of which the spoiler culture and hype machine are part of, and if you think this gives you some kind of moral high ground while defending the latter, then your priorities are in the wrong place.
Where did I defend the latter? Do you even know what you're saying?
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
...but those comment sections have quite a few people saying they were excepting something terrible and it looked good. Their opinions changed once they saw the game being shown off as the developer intended, rather than what hey'd seen/heard/read through leaks.
Conversely, I had 0 expectations of the game until people I appreciated gave me their impressions.

Obviously my expectations didn't manifest with me trolling people on Twitter and the like.
 

Wolfapo

Member
Dec 27, 2017
127
If you think devs suffer because of "leaks" and not because the AAA industry is a toxic and abusive minefield of which the spoiler culture and hype machine are part of, and if you think this gives you some kind of moral high ground while defending the latter, then your priorities are in the wrong place.
Why not both?
Leaks can cause problems, so does some problems in the gaming industry which need to be addressed.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,460
The fun part about movies is that we had a recent case of a movie being partially leaked with Sonic.
the design was spoiled and talked about.
The real damage was when the trailer was so bad it forced a delay on the release of the movie.
The problem is never leaks but the quality of the product.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
565
Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Yes, you rigorously coming to the defense of the companies that actually abuse their employees and their practices certainly gives you the moral high ground.
wu.. what?

There are serious issues in the industry but you taking to the defense of another one to add to the pile is a slap in the face of those who suffer from those practices so don't come here and act like leaking is a good fucking thing.
 

doodlewhizz

Member
Jan 9, 2019
743
Conversely, I had 0 expectations of the game until people I appreciated gave me their impressions.

Obviously my expectations didn't manifest with me trolling people on Twitter and the like.
Cool. Either way, all the leak did was hurt the dev team which is the point I was making from the start. It helped no-one and only hindered - the game needed a specific marketing message which a leaked name and materials with no context was not able to do and was detrimental to all involved in making the game
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
Where did I defend the latter? Do you even know what you're saying?
You responded to a conversation I was having with someone else. Obviously I was talking about their priorities, not yours.

Leaks can cause problems, so does some problems in the gaming industry which need to be addressed.
The problems that leaks cause are insignificant compared to the industry as a whole and what problems are associated with "leaks" are most likely just an alibi.

The only thing that really matters is the suggestion that leaks can prompt online hate, but we all know that gaming culture hate exists independently of leaks.

act like leaking is a good fucking thing.
I'm not saying leaks are good.

I'm just saying that people who think that leaks are some magnanimous problem within the industry, are hugely detrimental, etc are using this one small example as a scapegoat.

People want to know information and other people will give it to them. It is all part of the media hype machine that AAA publishers have purposefully created.

Leak us info on the inner workings of your job and see how that goes for you.
One of my clients' internal dealings with sexual harassment was leaked to the press years ago and people lost their jobs and corporate culture changed. The entire company was shit on for the terrible choices a few folks in HR made.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,785
You responded to a conversation I was having with someone else. Obviously I was talking about their priorities, not yours.



The problems that leaks cause are insignificant compared to the industry as a whole and what problems are associated with "leaks" are most likely just an alibi.

The only thing that really matters is the suggestion that leaks can prompt online hate, but we all know that gaming culture hate exists independently of leaks.



I'm not saying leaks are good.

I'm just saying that people who think that leaks are some magnanimous problem within the industry, are hugely detrimental, etc are using this one small example as a scapegoat.

People want to know information and other people will give it to them. It is all part of the media hype machine that AAA publishers have purposefully created.



One of my clients' internal dealings with sexual harassment was leaked to the press years ago and people lost their jobs and corporate culture changed. The entire company was shit on for the terrible choices a few folks in HR made.
wu.. what?

There are serious issues in the industry but you taking to the defense of another one to add to the pile is a slap in the face of those who suffer from those practices so don't come here and act like leaking is a good fucking thing.
Are you just going to ignore the person working in the gaming industry because it's too inconvenient to you?
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,439
The fun part about movies is that we had a recent case of a movie being partially leaked with Sonic.
the design was spoiled and talked about.
The real damage was when the trailer was so bad it forced a delay on the release of the movie.
The problem is never leaks but the quality of the product.
What about when everyone got pissed because Metroid Prime 4 wasn't at the VGA's but only expected that because of a potential leak? Or when people get upset that there were no surprises at a conference because everything that would have been a surprise got leaked ahead of time?
 

goldenpp73

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,144
Any incidents that happen in my workplace are not allowed to be discussed anywhere, social media and otherwise. It's in the paperwork when you hire. Toxic.

Ok now does that make it a good thing?
It's perfectly fine to expect corporate secrets and knowledge to be kept between employees, it's how they remain competitive. If you were writing a book and your editor leaked it out on twitter with half of the pages unedited, you'd be cool with that I suppose?
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
Are you just going to ignore the person working in the gaming industry because it's too inconvenient to you?
I did respond to them and if they posit that the absence of leaks would change how terribly developers are treated then I have some very disappointing news for them.

from any negative impact that leaks may cause
Outside of "the internet is garbage" (which the lack of leaks will never fix), the negative impacts are spurious at best. The three examples it seems are "You watched my commercial before I wanted you to" which sucks but literal commercials aren't my concern, and "Splatoon" and "Mario Rabbids" two games that came out to great sales and reception.
 

Ryuji

Banned
Apr 25, 2019
320
Lol, this guy was one of the people behind "blog theory" pre smash Ultimate release. He was even in a video where Gamexplain interviewed him and his friend.

 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
6,460
What about when everyone got pissed because Metroid Prime 4 wasn't at the VGA's but only expected that because of a leak? Or when people get upset that there were no surprises at a conference because everything that would have been a surprise got leaked ahead of time?
Well that game was cancelled because it didn't match their standards.
Nintendo's words not mine.
People are pissed at Nintendo for nearly everything they do and don't do anyway so I think that grief was added to the pile.
The hype machine is toxic and people should really stop trying to ride it.
 

weekev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,561
Ok now does that make it a good thing?
It's not a good thing but it's not due to your workplace being shitty, it's to do with the general public being a shitty fickle bunch of assholes. You read shit that happens in any workplace and it starts giving you a picture of that company. Now think of the biggest asshole at your work, I'm sure you agree you don't want that piece of shit essentially being the mouthpiece for your company.

I think it's a sensible corporate policy.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
If you want to fix the toxic gaming culture meta then maybe dialing back the hype machine and emotional investment is the better idea instead of cranking it up and making social pariahs about people who leak. They're only leaking because of the already existing hype machine and emotional investment. All they're doing is participating in the spectacle that these publishers purposefully created.

Assuming that none of the leaks were controlled leaks that play into the hype machine anyway. As we know well and good actually happens.
 

carlosrox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,360
Vancouver BC
Ok now does that make it a good thing?
What are you talking about?

What job would allow you or anyone to leak insider info to the public? You'd get in shit anywhere, the person giving out that info would probably be fired, and there would probably be some kind of internal investigation to find out who leaked it.

A good thing? The company has the right to do so and the person leaking info is an idiot. It's a good thing for the company to protect its investments, yes.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,785
If you want to fix the toxic gaming culture meta then maybe dialing back the hype machine and emotional investment is the better idea instead of cranking it up and making social pariahs about people who leak. They're only leaking because of the already existing hype machine and emotional investment. All they're doing is participating in the spectacle that these publishers purposefully created.

Assuming that none of the leaks were controlled leaks that play into the hype machine anyway. As we know well and good actually happens.
I mean...we've seen the result. The reason why the hype cycle exists is because it is effective. It sucks, and I wish we could live in a world where it isn't effective but it is. It's the same reason why stores are always "discounting" clothes even though the reality is far different. It's effective, therefore it exists.
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,396
What are you talking about?

What job would allow you or anyone to leak insider info to the public? You'd get in shit anywhere, the person giving out that info would probably be fired, and there would probably be some kind of internal investigation to find out who leaked it.

A good thing? The company has the right to do so and the person leaking info is an idiot. It's a good thing for the company to protect its investments, yes.
So because someone else leaked something the company has a right to threaten me with being fired. You really don't see how fucked up that is?
 

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,439
If you want to fix the toxic gaming culture meta then maybe dialing back the hype machine and emotional investment is the better idea instead of cranking it up and making social pariahs about people who leak. They're only leaking because of the already existing hype machine and emotional investment. All they're doing is participating in the spectacle that these publishers purposefully created.

Assuming that none of the leaks were controlled leaks that play into the hype machine anyway. As we know well and good actually happens.
Pretty sure "stop being so emotionally invested in reveals" wouldn't go over well if I just blurted out what was in the basement to people only watching the anime for Attack on Titan
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
I mean...we've seen the result. The reason why the hype cycle exists is because it is effective. It sucks, and I wish we could live in a world where it isn't effective but it is. It's the same reason why stores are always "discounting" clothes even though the reality is far different. It's effective, therefore it exists.
In spite of leaks, it is effective and it exists.

The record industry at least had a leg to stand on when it came to leaking albums. You downloaded the leak, you might not buy it. That's a logical conclusion. Sadly, the same can't be said for people who watch commercials for a game the day before the commercial is supposed to air.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
Pretty sure "stop being so emotionally invested in reveals" wouldn't go over well if I just blurted out what was in the basement to people only watching the anime for Attack on Titan
People who spoil movies as people watch them are total assholes. But if one's response to having a film spoiled is to say the film is ruined, deny any artistic value in the rest of the film in its entirety, and then spew hate at the producer and studio online... well, the spoiler may be a dick but that person should probably dial back their emotional investment.

But also leaking a game trailer isn't a spoiler so they don't really go hand in hand.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,785
Is it Nintendo related?
Yes

There's rumors of a WarioWare game and a new 2.5 Metroid game (either a remake of fusion or a new game)

In spite of leaks, it is effective and it exists.

The record industry at least had a leg to stand on when it came to leaking albums. You downloaded the leak, you might not buy it. That's a logical conclusion. Sadly, the same can't be said for people who watch commercials for a game the day before the commercial is supposed to air.
...ok? Are you trying to gotcha me here? Did I step into an elusive mastermind trap where I just proved myself wrong? What's the point of this response? The hype machine is incredibly effective, ergo, the gaming industry (especially Nintendo) goes to great lengths to protect it. I actually don't like that the system works like this. I wish we could be more open in game development.
 

Isamu

Member
Dec 18, 2017
362
Downtown Rave City
I'm probably the old man yelling at the clouds here, but I can't really blame Nintendo for this. If I was a game company that had stuff to reveal at a trade show, only to have some random person leak everythig beforehand I'd be pretty pissed too . I mean, what is everyone's fascination with leaks? What happened to just waiting until the show/event starts, and enjoy the reveals officially from the company? I always hated leaks/spoilers/rumor/etc. Just wait and have some patience people.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,851
I wish we could be more open in game development.
More open development. Another way to put an end to leaks. Sounds like a great idea.

I suspect that having an open and documented development would go to further humanize the developers as actual humanize developers. I had a bad taste in my mouth over getting burned by Double Fine but got over it after watching the Double Fine documentary.

Sadly, an open development concept would clash with the pageantry of marketing and sales and those matter more than actual people.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,785
More open development. Another way to put an end to leaks. Sounds like a great idea.

I suspect that having an open and documented development would go to further humanize the developers as actual humanize developers. I had a bad taste in my mouth over getting burned by Double Fine but got over it after watching the Double Fine documentary.

Sadly, an open development concept would clash with the pageantry of marketing and sales and those matter more than actual people.
I mean, if we're in agreement, why are you so combative with this post?

Yes, I too wish developers could be more open, but like, we've seen that this does not always translates well for both humanization nor profit. Double Fine itself is an example, you had a bad taste in your mouth over it. Sure, you watched the documentary and got more context, but not everyone will. We live in a world where it seems like people want to be psychologically tricked and actual honesty and openess isn't rewarded.