Nintendo sends a cease and desist to insider that has leaked pretty much every E3 2019 announcement

[Muffin]

It's fair to assume it was one of two things. Either fair use, or wasn't taken to court.

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You said yourself just leaking things is not fair use. That's what these outlets often do. And Bethesda for example went so far as to stop giving Kotaku any review codes or anything like that, so why would they shy down from suing them if they could?

The answer is because leaking like that isn't illegal.

 

[delete12345]

How did a leak cause this?

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Breach of contract.

 

[MZZ]

I like the genuine feeling of being surprised. Reading an announcement as a thread title here in resetera a few hours before the scheduled announcement just ruins that feeling for me.

I'd rather see the trailers with my own eyes and not some text describing what I am about to see. My purchasing decision is never affected by having a genuine reaction to an announcement, its just fun.

It's the same as getting spoiled on a narrative or gameplay twist. Sure it's just trailers but it takes the excitement out of it.

 

[Nax]

If you're going to show me a trailer tomorrow but I am able to see it today, how does that change anything?

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It doesn't matter. It's not up to you. If they wanna release it tomorrow - let them. You don't need it a day early. And if they claim that releasing it a day early hurts their bottom-line in some way or affects their message, why are you so persistent in challenging them?

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

If you're going to show me a trailer tomorrow but I am able to see it today, how does that change anything?

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You know Mario Rabbids happened, right?

 

[Deleted member 51789]

If you're going to show me a trailer tomorrow but I am able to see it today, how does that change anything?

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A couple of examples:

• Poor video/audio quality (which happened with Bleeding Edge)
• The trailer itself could possible have been meant to accompany a slot in the presentation where the game or concept is explained - not all trailers hinge on this, but getting the message out there clearly is important and first impressions count. Without that, rumours and misinformation can possibly spread, and the impact of seeing the game can be diluted on both occasions, which in turn can affect future marketing plans and spends which may need to account for any bad information and assumptions which are out in the public domain.

 

[HeroR]

I mean if it's just a line with a piece of information instead of the full promo material being leaked, how is it any different from any old leak like that cute Metroid Prime 4 @ Game Awards?
I can get taking legal action after the promo material has been stolen but this?

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Leaking one or maybe two games ahead of time with a vague hint is one thing.

Spoiling an entire press conference that people put time and money into to surprise and make people happy is another. Especially doing it literally hours before the official reveal since the only reason to do that is to get cred. Or worse, to purposely hurt the presentation like what happened with High Res.

 

[Icemonk191]

Are you an artist? That's a pretty familiar feeling for any artist that has its work released to the public. It's not outlandish to believe that a controlled message that displays your work under the best light ever is better than a shitty leaked and incomplete version of your work.

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I don't disagree with this. My problem is the mentality that "this game i was working on got it's trailer leaked and now i have to worry about whether i have a job anymore".

 

[Glio]

Do you know how much movie companies pay for a specific trailer to be seen for the first time in the Super Bowl? Do you really believe that timing does not matter in marketing?

 

[i-hate-u]

Nintendo is like the kid that would get beat up in school.

Snitches get stitches.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

If you're going to show me a trailer tomorrow but I am able to see it today, how does that change anything?

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I don't think it changes anything, its the principle of the matter and respectful to the developer showing what they've been working on.

 

[mael]

The argument is about preventing bad impressions on an otherwise potentially great game from tarnishing it.Vague information tends to spread misinformation around if it gets out of hand.

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That's the job of the marketing team.
You're all fine and all about making pro bono work for mega corps but really as long as it affects the likes of Nintendo or Microsoft, I fail to see how that is any of our problem.

Because one was a rumor and the other was basically a 100% success rate read off of the whole thing

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the thing is the rumor is trying to pass off as the real thing so you know ...

 

[HeroR]

You know Mario Rabbids happened, right?

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That was worse. The entire game document leaked.

 

[Wolfapo]

I don't disagree with this. My problem is the mentality that "this game i was working on got it's trailer leaked and now i have to worry about whether i have a job anymore".

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It just creates distrust between companies, which could lead to a bad reputation and later on to less contracts, thus less manpower needed.
It's extreme, but a possibility.

 

[Xaszatm]

How did a leak cause this?

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The "splatoon prototype" (it's only called that because the prototype had a similar-ish gimmick to Splatoon. It was a far different game in reality) was a working title between Nintendo and a third-party studio. A lot of money was put into development time. When concept about this was leaked to the public. Nintendo pulled the plug. This not only costed the third-party studio a ton of money, but created a culture of distrust within the company that eventually caused people to leave in mass and the company to collapse among itself.

 

[mael]

Leaking one or maybe two games ahead of time with a vague hint is one thing.

Spoiling an entire press conference that people put time and money into to surprise and make people happy is another. Especially doing it literally hours before the official reveal since the only reason to do that is to get cred. Or worse, to purposely hurt the presentation like what happened with High Res.

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Welcome to the world of competing under capitalism.
That is not clearly illegal and that is part of the tools available to damage or bolster the reputation of companies.
Also I would suggest using older examples because I have no idea what high Res is.

 

[Lant_War]

Schrodinger's Pikmin.

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We actually found a way to save Schrodinger's Cat already, so maybe Miyamoto can finally get to making Pikmin 4!

 

[svacina]

I thought theft of trade secrets is another way to prosecute?

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EDIT: disregard everything, I am blind.

Sorry.

 

[ShinobiBk]

Nintendo is like the kid that would get beat up in school.

Snitches get stitches.

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Wouldn't the leakers be the snitches?

 

[Z-Beat]

the thing is the rumor is trying to pass off as the real thing so you know ...

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So I know what? That no legal action was taken because it was a lie and not the entire lineup getting jacked? Falling stealing the list and ACTUALLY stealing the list are different things, and by now we KNOW it's the real thing

 

[Mobu]

Nintendo is like the kid that would get beat up in school.

Snitches get stitches.

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Yeah the snitches being the employees leaking shit and the stitches being them getting fired the fuck out

 

[Baji Boxer]

The "splatoon prototype" (it's only called that because the prototype had a similar-ish gimmick to Splatoon. It was a far different game in reality) was a working title between Nintendo and a third-party studio. A lot of money was put into development time. When concept about this was leaked to the public. Nintendo pulled the plug. This not only costed the third-party studio a ton of money, but created a culture of distrust within the company that eventually caused people to leave in mass and the company to collapse among itself.

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Ah, I see. I'd completely missed this event somehow.

 

[WestEgg]

That was worse. The entire game document leaked.

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I'm on the "leaks are bad" side, though I sometimes wonder if Mario Rabbids benefitted from having people get their hot takes out of the way long before E3 so that when it did debut, the conversation was pleasant surprise about how good it looked than how bizarre the premise was. Of course, this is the exception rather than the rule if that's the case, and I can only imagine the reactions if it had been a surprise as intended.

 

[CodyV]

Nintendo is like the kid that would get beat up in school.

Snitches get stitches.

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You mean like every kid who had issues speaking up for their self? As if the child who has to face constant bullying has done something to deserve that treatment. "Haha it's funny cause you got beat up". Yeah no thanks.

 

[Dinobot]

Nintendo must have bombshells they don't want to be spoiled. Like games that aren't announced yet. Other wise this is a waste of time.

 

[Lothars]

Do you know how much movie companies pay for a specific trailer to be seen for the first time in the Super Bowl? Do you really believe that timing does not matter in marketing?

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Timing matters but if something leaks like it does in every industry. it's not a big deal.

 

[HeroR]

Welcome to the world of competing under capitalism.
That is not clearly illegal and that is part of the tools available to damage or bolster the reputation of companies.
Also I would suggest using older examples because I have no idea what high Res is.

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This isn't about being legal. It's understanding the human cost of leaking. It doesn't just hurt 'cooperation' as some try to paint it.

I used Rabbid several dozen times now, but that is by far the most vicious example of a leak that cause a bunch of anguished to the developers to the point that they questioned if the game itself was a mistake.

That and we have a thread here posted several times with actual developers who talked about how leaks hurt.

And most of this doesn't happened because of 'competing under capitalism' since most of these leakers don't get paid. It happened because people want internet fame most of the time.

 

[Silent]

Even if we were to disregard the potential of larger consequences from leaks, the fact that developers like having their surprises work out is a good enough reason not to leak for some people.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

That's the job of the marketing team.
You're all fine and all about making pro bono work for mega corps but really as long as it affects the likes of Nintendo or Microsoft, I fail to see how that is any of our problem.

the thing is the rumor is trying to pass off as the real thing so you know ...

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Developers suffer emotionally when shitbags like us trash their game based on our limited leaked knowledge.

The big wigs couldn't give less crap about your impressive grandstanding and at best fire people and shut down projects.

 

[House_Of_Lightning]

I don't think it changes anything, its the principle of the matter and respectful to the developer showing what they've been working on.

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I don't think the media spectacle and "respect" go hand in hand. If you want to respect a dev, buy the game, enjoy it, and advocate for it.

Publisher's don't showcase games at E3 because they love developers. They don't concoct this ridiculous, unique to them ad blitz out of respect. They do it because they want you to buy their product.

Big AAA game publishers wouldn't release games that are a complete and buggy mess if they respected developers and their time and skills. But they do release unfinished games. All the time.

Todd Howard got out there and threw his dev team to the wolves with Fallout 76.

You know Mario Rabbids happened, right?

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And was a success.

 

[delete12345]

Nintendo must have bombshells they don't want to be spoiled. Like games that aren't announced yet. Other wise this is a waste of time.

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It's also possible it's the other way around. Nintendo, as publisher, has to make sure leaked info doesn't tarnish the 3rd party developers. Otherwise, Nintendo can actually get sued by the 3rd party developers, because of reputation loss.

 

[Nesther]

Nintendo must have bombshells they don't want to be spoiled. Like games that aren't announced yet. Other wise this is a waste of time.

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I really hope so, and if so I'll be glad they stopped that leaker. Hopefully preventing future leaks days around E3, really hate when the surpises get spoilt so close to the event.

 

[Gay Bowser]

Timing matters but if something leaks like it does in every industry. it's not a big deal.

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This is a weird take.

"Timing matters…but it doesn't."

 

[shadow2810]

And was a success

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? People shat on it before the actual announcement.

 

[HeroR]

? People shat on it before the actual announcement.

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But it was successful, so who cares about the actual human suffering.

 

[Wolfapo]

This is a weird take.

"Timing matters…but it doesn't."

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It's a big deal for any company if a leak happens.
It seems the gaming industry is just discussed more on this forum.

 

[Septimius]

I thought theft of trade secrets is another way to prosecute?

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I'm sure there may be multiple laws at hand, all depending on how the information was obtained. I just see copyright as one certain venue.

You said yourself just leaking things is not fair use. That's what these outlets often do. And Bethesda for example went so far as to stop giving Kotaku any review codes or anything like that, so why would they shy down from suing them if they could?

The answer is because leaking like that isn't illegal.

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That's a poor legal argument. Everyone was holding their breath when Nintendo started enforcing copyright on YouTube. Everyone was wondering if they'd take someone to court over let's plays. No one's been taken to court, so there's no legal precedence. Same thing with leaks, I'm guessing. Let's plays may be fair use, they may not. Same with these leaks. I'm not saying it's illegal, I'm saying this pertains to copyright. It is copyright infringement. The question is if it is fair use.

Game news outlets aside, I've never seen a major publication openly leak things from entertainment in any way. There is, of course, a possibility to claim it's public knowledge once it's been spread far and wide. Being the source for a leak puts you in a different position, anyway. Doing so with providing no commentary is even worse. I'm guessing at least Kotaku articles provide commentary in some way, so that gives a better case if it were ever to go to trial.

What I'm saying is that Nintendo would be able to establish a prima facie case against this leaker, so I see it as a viable venue to go to court over. I'd follow the case closely, because it'd be really interesting to see the court's interpretation of such a case. I'm not saying it's illegal. I understand that it may be understood that way when I explain how copyright works, in the fact that Fair Use is an affirmative defense. It is once you've been found to breach copyright that you can defend against it as fair use. So it is copyright infringement, but it may not be illegal.

 

[mael]

This isn't about being legal. It's understanding the human cost of leaking. It doesn't just hurt 'cooperation' as some try to paint it.

I used Rabbid several dozen times now, but that is by far the most vicious example of a leak that cause a bunch of anguished to the developers to the point that they questioned if the game itself was a mistake.

That and we have a thread here posted several times with actual developers who talked about how leaks hurt.

And most of this doesn't happened because of 'competing under capitalism' since most of these leakers don't get paid. It happened because people want internet fame most of the time.

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I don't think I have seen this in this industry but I fully expect 1 company to make leak happens to damage a project of a competitor.
I guess expect is a strong word, I should say I wouldn't be surprised.

The leaks are a problem of either bad employees or someone not taking their job seriously.
If you're working for a software dev in a partnership and you do not realize that you can cause your whole team to collapse or even your whole place of employment go puff on a leak you're not in the correct business.
I would assume that anyone privy to sensitive information would not be stupid enough to share them easily.

Developers suffer emotionally when shitbags like us trash their game based on our limited leaked knowledge.

The big wigs couldn't give less crap about your impressive grandstanding and at best fire people and shut down projects.

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Spare me the waterworks, they have about a million reasons to suffer these days and this really shouldn't be high on the list.
When they're able to unionize and defend their rights against constant corporate abuse maybe this will seem important.
No one gave a shit about the devs of some project that was trashed because of a bad e3 impression as well.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Nintendo is like the kid that would get beat up in school.

Snitches get stitches.

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So basically, minding their own business and trying to do their own shit but then asshole bullies beat them up because they're pricks?

 

[Deleted member 6730]

Lotta metadrama going on this E3.

 

[House_Of_Lightning]

? People shat on it before the actual announcement.

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But it was successful, so who cares about the actual human suffering.

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Ya'll act like people don't already shit on every video game.

People shit talked the game before official release, during, and after and still shit on it today.

If the game had not leaked the only thing different would be the "before official release" part.

Developers get treated like shit, regardless of leaks.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

I don't think the media spectacle and "respect" go hand in hand. If you want to respect a dev, buy the game, enjoy it, and advocate for it.

Publisher's don't showcase games at E3 because they love developers. They don't concoct this ridiculous, unique to them ad blitz out of respect. They do it because they want you to buy their product.

Big AAA game publishers wouldn't release games that are a complete and buggy mess if they respected developers and their time and skills. But they do release unfinished games. All the time.

Todd Howard got out there and threw his dev team to the wolves with Fallout 76.



And was a success.

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You being completely okay with the devs suffering, makes me aware that I put you on ignore way too late. So thank you ✌

 

[Deleted member 6730]

Nintendo is like the kid that would get beat up in school.

Snitches get stitches.

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That sure is a take alright. Not a good one but still.

 

[BZL8]

I think people will remember the stuff surrounding leakers and insiders more than the games announced this E3 at this point.

 

[Septimius]

Ya'll act like people don't already shit on every video game.

People shit talked the game before official release, during, and after and still shit on it today.

If the game had not leaked the only thing different would be the "before official release" part.

Developers get treated like shit, regardless of leaks.

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Your arguments are terrible, and I think you should feel bad. You're saying things are related that aren't, you're saying it doesn't matter because it's just video games. You're basically saying that all your reasons should somehow impede an author's ability to control what reaches the public when. That's a slippery slope.

 

[mael]

Ya'll act like people don't already shit on every video game.

People shit talked the game before official release, during, and after and still shit on it today.

If the game had not leaked the only thing different would be the "before official release" part.

Developers get treated like shit, regardless of leaks.

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It's not even limited to games,
Look at the Fox Xmen movies when it was known that they would keep making them.
No one had any info but the name of a director and the internet went WAM on it.
No reasons are needed to shit on an unreleased product.

 

[Arthoneceron]

More like Nintendo saying "We know who are you. Do something, and we'll do something to you".

Ninjas at their finest.

 

[i-hate-u]

Calm down guys it's a joke.

But leakers in this industry is nothing new. This used to be way worse last gen/

 

[SPRidley]

Eve

I'm on the "leaks are bad" side, though I sometimes wonder if Mario Rabbids benefitted from having people get their hot takes out of the way long before E3 so that when it did debut, the conversation was pleasant surprise about how good it looked than how bizarre the premise was. Of course, this is the exception rather than the rule if that's the case, and I can only imagine the reactions if it had been a surprise as intended.

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Even then it was not a complete success when the team was having a horrible depressing time reading the shitty comments through the whole internet the first weeks. Yes, its was super emotional once it was showed, but those were not only cries of happiness but also some other worse bottled up emotions realesed (thnakfully) that day.
Im pretty sure, because ive been on their side, that before it leaked they thought the video presentarion would have showed perfectly what they really wanted to create, so a lot of the team were probably sad at the notion of people not seem to understand what they wanted to do with the leak explanation and were scared the video would have the same effect. Their optimism for the project probably tool a hard blow the next day.

 

[House_Of_Lightning]

You being completely okay with the devs suffering

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Yes, you rigorously coming to the defense of the companies that actually abuse their employees and their practices certainly gives you the moral high ground.