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Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 9, 2019
3,705
Ya'll act like people don't already shit on every video game.

People shit talked the game before official release, during, and after and still shit on it today.

If the game had not leaked the only thing different would be the "before official release" part.

Developers get treated like shit, regardless of leaks.
People generally stopped talking shit about the game after official reveal press conference - but that doesn't negate the resoundingly immature and reaction the game got when it was leaked which affected the dev team as has been mentioned here countless times.

The fact it was well received on reveal means that all the leak really did was detrimentally affect the dev team.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
People generally stopped talking shit about the game after official reveal press conference - but that doesn't negate the resoundingly immature and reaction the game got when it was leaked which affected the dev team as has been mentioned here countless times.

The fact it was well received on reveal means that all the leak really did was detrimentally affect the dev team.

IME the expectations to the game were incredibly low up until people actually got it in their hands.

No reasons are needed to shit on an unreleased product.

None of my arguments are in defense of people being shit bags.

The media spectacle of E3 feeds into the hype machine and the meta.
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,282
If you're going to show me a trailer tomorrow but I am able to see it today, how does that change anything?
Some ideas:
•Not final version (price, promotion, tagline). Gamers especially hate any disperancies between different versions of a product. Hypothetically, last minute changes could even be related to the leaking process itself.
•Not "news" anymore, so not covered as fervently by the press (the "news" is dilluted between the two separate "releases", covering the same news twice might not be as interesting). That's less true if there's some time between the leak and the release.
•The release is getting disconnected from the event it was planned to be a part of (if the marketing for the event itself was bigger than the news).
That doesn't affect gaming afficionados who will hear about everything that happens in the industry.

Those are not applicable to every leak though. Case-by-case.
Others mentionned contractual obligations. Here, Nintendo mentionned "trade secret", maybe something they are afraid the concurrence might use if timing is right?
 
Last edited:
Jan 10, 2018
6,327
I don't think I have seen this in this industry but I fully expect 1 company to make leak happens to damage a project of a competitor.
I guess expect is a strong word, I should say I wouldn't be surprised.

The leaks are a problem of either bad employees or someone not taking their job seriously.
If you're working for a software dev in a partnership and you do not realize that you can cause your whole team to collapse or even your whole place of employment go puff on a leak you're not in the correct business.
I would assume that anyone privy to sensitive information would not be stupid enough to share them easily.

Spare me the waterworks, they have about a million reasons to suffer these days and this really shouldn't be high on the list.
When they're able to unionize and defend their rights against constant corporate abuse maybe this will seem important.
No one gave a shit about the devs of some project that was trashed because of a bad e3 impression as well.

And another one. Why the ugliness?
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,374
For those arguing the legality of this, I'd say the legal standing of the cease and desist order doesn't really matter, the letter is just as effective either way. Leaking this info isn't really gaining her anything beyond attention, and it isn't any kind of important journalism. Fighting it or inviting legal action over this just isn't worth it.
 

Syriel

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
11,088
Yeah how do you do that to a person that is just saying stuff? As long as they not trying to make a buck

If the person is just reporting, there is no grounds other than intimidation.

If the person has broken an NDA, actively worked to entice someone to break an NDA (offering to pay a third party would qualify, asking someone for info over drinks would not), or acted criminally (hacking into a system), then they aren't protected and can be sued into oblivion.


Copyright would not apply here.

If she herself didn't break an NDA or something like that, it doesn't matter. Her source might be on the hook if discovered, not herself. It's just that Nintendo can afford to do this as she wouldn't be financially able to go through an entire trial.

If she did cross the line, then it is very smart to back down. If not, then the threat is likely just that, a threat.

Companies threaten legal action against journalists. It happens. They rarely ever follow through as they know it is a losing battle, unless the journo has broken the law. And that just covers the publication aspect. Depending on context, anti-SLAPP laws could also come into play, which would be very bad for the party doing the threatening.

I thought theft of trade secrets is another way to prosecute?
Does this not fall under trade secrets or whatever?

Product announcements and release dates aren't trade secrets.

Source code for a console OS might qualify.
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 9, 2019
3,705
IME the expectations to the game were incredibly low up until people actually got it in their hands.
You're likely misremembering as the hatred before the reveal was so vitriolic. Just your usual amount of skepticism which all games tend to get - if you look for Reddit threads and comment sections in posts about the reveal there are a lot of people quite surprised about how good it looks (not sure about how GAF took the news, wasn't around then).

Plus David Soliani became a mini gaming-internet sensation which earned the game more goodwill.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,745
And another one. Why the ugliness?
emotional manipulation by appealing to emotion is rather bad, don't do that when no one is really willing to do the myriad of other things that would make their lives so much better already.
It's rather shitty to be like "don't be too mean to games because devs will be sad" when we're in an industry that crush devs on the regular and the hype machine is partly responsible for the increasing expectations that crush more devs.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Some ideas:
•Not final version (price, promotion, tagline). Gamers especially hate any disperancies between different versions of a product. Hypothetically, last minute changes could even be related to the leaking process itself.
•Not "news" anymore, so not covered as fervently by the press (the "news" is dilluted between the two separate "releases", covering the same news twice might not be as interesting). That's less true if there's some time between the leak and the release.
•The release is getting disconnected from the event it was planned to be a part of (if the marketing for the event itself was bigger than the news).

Those are not applicable to every leak though. Case-by-case.
Others mentionned contractual obligations. Here, Nintendo mentionned "trade secret", maybe something they are afraid the concurrence might use if timing is right?


I think these are fair statements. We might disagree as to how impactful they are to the overall product/sales/etc.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
You're likely misremembering as the hatred before the reveal was so vitriolic. Just your usual amount of skepticism which all games tend to get - if you look for GAF/Reddit threads and comment sections in posts about the reveal there are a lot of people quite surprised about how good it looks. Plus David Soliani became a mini gaming-internet sensation which earned the game more goodwill.

The one thing I remember the most about the game is listening to the Giant Bombcast and Gerstmann (and crew) being skeptical of the game prior to playing it and then talking it up after enjoying it.

Obviously that's way better the the hostile mind fuck that is gaming culture, but point is, I don't think anyone being skeptical of the game would have changed had they seen the proper reveal versus the leak itself.
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Are you kidding me? He's talking about people and you're equating it to corporations? Gtfo with this awful take

If you think devs suffer because of "leaks" and not because the AAA industry is a toxic and abusive minefield of which the spoiler culture and hype machine are part of, and if you think this gives you some kind of moral high ground while defending the latter, then your priorities are in the wrong place.

Saying "you don't agree with me so you must hate people" is a cop out.
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
Movie concepts, stories, cast, and etc are known for years and I am not aware of any movie ever being cancelled because the trailer for it was leaked a week before a convention.

They're known after that information is released... And surprises are held back.

They don't cancel big movies for getting leaked, but they release the info at a specific timing, enforce contracts, and fire people for breaking contracts.

Come on, now.

EDIT: A verified dev already criticized your logic. But you're clearly more concerned with your view than the actual devs themselves. So please, explain to them how they're hurt. You know better than anyone, of course.
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 9, 2019
3,705
The one thing I remember the most about the game is listening to the Giant Bombcast and Gerstmann (and crew) being skeptical of the game prior to playing it and then talking it up after enjoying it.

Obviously that's way better the the hostile mind fuck that is gaming culture, but point is, I don't think anyone being skeptical of the game would have changed had they seen the proper reveal versus the leak itself.
...but those comment sections have quite a few people saying they were excepting something terrible and it looked good. Their opinions changed once they saw the game being shown off as the developer intended, rather than what hey'd seen/heard/read through leaks - first Google search I could find was this article on Polygon which has a number of comments like this.
 

Braaier

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
13,237
If you think devs suffer because of "leaks" and not because the AAA industry is a toxic and abusive minefield of which the spoiler culture and hype machine are part of, and if you think this gives you some kind of moral high ground while defending the latter, then your priorities are in the wrong place.
Where did I defend the latter? Do you even know what you're saying?
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Oct 29, 2017
5,048
...but those comment sections have quite a few people saying they were excepting something terrible and it looked good. Their opinions changed once they saw the game being shown off as the developer intended, rather than what hey'd seen/heard/read through leaks.

Conversely, I had 0 expectations of the game until people I appreciated gave me their impressions.

Obviously my expectations didn't manifest with me trolling people on Twitter and the like.
 

Wolfapo

Member
Dec 27, 2017
536
If you think devs suffer because of "leaks" and not because the AAA industry is a toxic and abusive minefield of which the spoiler culture and hype machine are part of, and if you think this gives you some kind of moral high ground while defending the latter, then your priorities are in the wrong place.
Why not both?
Leaks can cause problems, so does some problems in the gaming industry which need to be addressed.
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,745
The fun part about movies is that we had a recent case of a movie being partially leaked with Sonic.
the design was spoiled and talked about.
The real damage was when the trailer was so bad it forced a delay on the release of the movie.
The problem is never leaks but the quality of the product.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,782
Yes, you rigorously coming to the defense of the companies that actually abuse their employees and their practices certainly gives you the moral high ground.
wu.. what?

There are serious issues in the industry but you taking to the defense of another one to add to the pile is a slap in the face of those who suffer from those practices so don't come here and act like leaking is a good fucking thing.
 

Deleted member 51789

User requested account closure
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Jan 9, 2019
3,705
Conversely, I had 0 expectations of the game until people I appreciated gave me their impressions.

Obviously my expectations didn't manifest with me trolling people on Twitter and the like.
Cool. Either way, all the leak did was hurt the dev team which is the point I was making from the start. It helped no-one and only hindered - the game needed a specific marketing message which a leaked name and materials with no context was not able to do and was detrimental to all involved in making the game
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Where did I defend the latter? Do you even know what you're saying?

You responded to a conversation I was having with someone else. Obviously I was talking about their priorities, not yours.

Leaks can cause problems, so does some problems in the gaming industry which need to be addressed.

The problems that leaks cause are insignificant compared to the industry as a whole and what problems are associated with "leaks" are most likely just an alibi.

The only thing that really matters is the suggestion that leaks can prompt online hate, but we all know that gaming culture hate exists independently of leaks.

act like leaking is a good fucking thing.

I'm not saying leaks are good.

I'm just saying that people who think that leaks are some magnanimous problem within the industry, are hugely detrimental, etc are using this one small example as a scapegoat.

People want to know information and other people will give it to them. It is all part of the media hype machine that AAA publishers have purposefully created.

Leak us info on the inner workings of your job and see how that goes for you.

One of my clients' internal dealings with sexual harassment was leaked to the press years ago and people lost their jobs and corporate culture changed. The entire company was shit on for the terrible choices a few folks in HR made.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
You responded to a conversation I was having with someone else. Obviously I was talking about their priorities, not yours.



The problems that leaks cause are insignificant compared to the industry as a whole and what problems are associated with "leaks" are most likely just an alibi.

The only thing that really matters is the suggestion that leaks can prompt online hate, but we all know that gaming culture hate exists independently of leaks.



I'm not saying leaks are good.

I'm just saying that people who think that leaks are some magnanimous problem within the industry, are hugely detrimental, etc are using this one small example as a scapegoat.

People want to know information and other people will give it to them. It is all part of the media hype machine that AAA publishers have purposefully created.



One of my clients' internal dealings with sexual harassment was leaked to the press years ago and people lost their jobs and corporate culture changed. The entire company was shit on for the terrible choices a few folks in HR made.
wu.. what?

There are serious issues in the industry but you taking to the defense of another one to add to the pile is a slap in the face of those who suffer from those practices so don't come here and act like leaking is a good fucking thing.
Are you just going to ignore the person working in the gaming industry because it's too inconvenient to you?
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,827
The fun part about movies is that we had a recent case of a movie being partially leaked with Sonic.
the design was spoiled and talked about.
The real damage was when the trailer was so bad it forced a delay on the release of the movie.
The problem is never leaks but the quality of the product.
What about when everyone got pissed because Metroid Prime 4 wasn't at the VGA's but only expected that because of a potential leak? Or when people get upset that there were no surprises at a conference because everything that would have been a surprise got leaked ahead of time?
 

goldenpp73

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,144

Any incidents that happen in my workplace are not allowed to be discussed anywhere, social media and otherwise. It's in the paperwork when you hire. Toxic.

Ok now does that make it a good thing?

It's perfectly fine to expect corporate secrets and knowledge to be kept between employees, it's how they remain competitive. If you were writing a book and your editor leaked it out on twitter with half of the pages unedited, you'd be cool with that I suppose?
 

House_Of_Lightning

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Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Are you just going to ignore the person working in the gaming industry because it's too inconvenient to you?

I did respond to them and if they posit that the absence of leaks would change how terribly developers are treated then I have some very disappointing news for them.

from any negative impact that leaks may cause

Outside of "the internet is garbage" (which the lack of leaks will never fix), the negative impacts are spurious at best. The three examples it seems are "You watched my commercial before I wanted you to" which sucks but literal commercials aren't my concern, and "Splatoon" and "Mario Rabbids" two games that came out to great sales and reception.
 

Deleted member 56266

Account closed at user request
Banned
Apr 25, 2019
7,291
Lol, this guy was one of the people behind "blog theory" pre smash Ultimate release. He was even in a video where Gamexplain interviewed him and his friend.

 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,745
What about when everyone got pissed because Metroid Prime 4 wasn't at the VGA's but only expected that because of a leak? Or when people get upset that there were no surprises at a conference because everything that would have been a surprise got leaked ahead of time?
Well that game was cancelled because it didn't match their standards.
Nintendo's words not mine.
People are pissed at Nintendo for nearly everything they do and don't do anyway so I think that grief was added to the pile.
The hype machine is toxic and people should really stop trying to ride it.
 

weekev

Is this a test?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,213
Ok now does that make it a good thing?
It's not a good thing but it's not due to your workplace being shitty, it's to do with the general public being a shitty fickle bunch of assholes. You read shit that happens in any workplace and it starts giving you a picture of that company. Now think of the biggest asshole at your work, I'm sure you agree you don't want that piece of shit essentially being the mouthpiece for your company.

I think it's a sensible corporate policy.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
If you want to fix the toxic gaming culture meta then maybe dialing back the hype machine and emotional investment is the better idea instead of cranking it up and making social pariahs about people who leak. They're only leaking because of the already existing hype machine and emotional investment. All they're doing is participating in the spectacle that these publishers purposefully created.

Assuming that none of the leaks were controlled leaks that play into the hype machine anyway. As we know well and good actually happens.
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
Ok now does that make it a good thing?

What are you talking about?

What job would allow you or anyone to leak insider info to the public? You'd get in shit anywhere, the person giving out that info would probably be fired, and there would probably be some kind of internal investigation to find out who leaked it.

A good thing? The company has the right to do so and the person leaking info is an idiot. It's a good thing for the company to protect its investments, yes.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
If you want to fix the toxic gaming culture meta then maybe dialing back the hype machine and emotional investment is the better idea instead of cranking it up and making social pariahs about people who leak. They're only leaking because of the already existing hype machine and emotional investment. All they're doing is participating in the spectacle that these publishers purposefully created.

Assuming that none of the leaks were controlled leaks that play into the hype machine anyway. As we know well and good actually happens.

I mean...we've seen the result. The reason why the hype cycle exists is because it is effective. It sucks, and I wish we could live in a world where it isn't effective but it is. It's the same reason why stores are always "discounting" clothes even though the reality is far different. It's effective, therefore it exists.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
What are you talking about?

What job would allow you or anyone to leak insider info to the public? You'd get in shit anywhere, the person giving out that info would probably be fired, and there would probably be some kind of internal investigation to find out who leaked it.

A good thing? The company has the right to do so and the person leaking info is an idiot. It's a good thing for the company to protect its investments, yes.
So because someone else leaked something the company has a right to threaten me with being fired. You really don't see how fucked up that is?