Nintendo Switch Lite announced at $199, launches September 20th, "dedicated handheld" (smaller, has D-Pad, has gyro, no HD Rumble, no dock/TV output)

Which colour Nintendo Switch Lite is your favourite?

  • Grey

    Votes: 654 19.6%
  • Yellow

    Votes: 740 22.2%
  • Turquoise

    Votes: 1,200 36.0%
  • Pokémon Sword and Shield Edition

    Votes: 739 22.2%

  • Total voters
    3,333

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
968
And yet, you've ignored the other poster who asked you to explain how you know it "could" be cheaper. It's already $100 cheaper, yet you know it "could" be moreso?

What price? What's the production cost? You need to know those things to make that judgement.
Neither the other poster nor you have that information either.
 

Funyarinpa

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
7,298
I really like how Nintendo basically said "We saw you try and fail the Vita, Sony, so here's how to do it right".

I fucking ADORE the Vita, it's probably my favorite platform for its indies and niche Japanese titles.

The Lite is basically the Switch picking up the torch from where the Vita left off, with actual mainstream appeal and system sellers, and portable but console-budget games.

The Lite is everything the Vita wanted to be.

I love that.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
993
Wait, doesn’t the Tegra have that on its SoC?
The Tegra has USB 3 on its SOC. But no, it doesn’t have a DP/USB 3 muxer.

The iFixit Teardown makes this clear, because you can clearly see this additional crossbar IC on the board: https://www.diodes.com/products/connectivity-and-timing/switches-mux/protocol-switches/usb-switches/part/PI3USB30532

That thing’s entire purpose is to take a straight USB 3 stream and a straight DisplayPort stream and mux the DP connection into the USB3 signal. Basically it’s adding the alternate mode capabilities the Tegra doesn’t ship with.

I did some napkin math in another post but basically if I wanted to buy 3,500 ICs today I’d pay about $1.50 per. Wild ass guess, Nintendo at their volumes might get them as low as a $1 per.

So, cut that chip off the board of the Lite, wire the Display directly to the SOC, and they make an extra million dollars for every million Lites they sell.

Financially it makes sense to me that if TV Out is off the table for the Lite, they’d go for the extra profit rather than just lock it via software. But like I said, we’ll have a concrete idea in September when we see a teardown
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,482
I‘m pleasantly surprised by the price difference, what I don‘t like is that Nintendo is taxing us Europeans again by ignoring the old practice that $=€ when they convert the prices. I waited with getting a Switch for a deal to get around that.
Taxes are included in the EU price. Not sure how much those are for such a product though.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
968
... You're the one who made the comment that it could be cheaper.

It's on you to explain how you know that.
Its the same resolution screen but smaller sized (and with no auto brightness sensor). No other upgrades to the Tegra processor that they revealed. Only 30mins more battery estimation? No connectivity with bluetooth headsets. No Labo kits compatibility. No table-top mode. No tv output option. Not 1:1 library of games with original Switch. No joy-cons.

But you're the defending the possibility that it "could've" been cheaper. Now it's up to you to explain based on whatever production cost information you have that it "could" not have been cheaper. If you have something better than "businesses don't work like that", please do enlighten me.
 

meaulnes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
96
My Switch is already a proto Lite as since a couple of weeks ago it does not switch anymore. It charges but does not output to TV.
 
Jan 10, 2018
3,614
So the new Switch revision outselling an older one is "cannibalizing their success"?

There's still a clear product delineation between a smaller more portable Switch and a larger one bundled with joycon and a dock. It shouldn't matter to Nintendo if one SKU is more popular than the other since for docked play they'd take in the same revenue for both.

Honestly where is the upside of a smaller Switch that doesn't actually Switch?
This is not a revision, it is a alternative model not replacing the current model, covering different needs. People without a TV, people sharing a TV or people who simply don't care about TV functionality. I know, Era exclusively consists of people who have a TV, live in households where every single member has their own TV and Switch/PS4/Pro/ One/S/X under every single TV, but you know, there is a real world out there which bought the handheld only 3DS 75 million times. And Nintendo is dumb enough to adress that market.

But yes, I get your demand for a revision and I'm not opposed to it. But corporate apologist whore that I am, I get why Nintendo isn't adressing that low demand yet.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,970
Its the same resolution screen but smaller sized (and with no auto brightness sensor). No other upgrades to the Tegra processor that they revealed. Only 30mins more battery estimation? No connectivity with bluetooth headsets. No Labo kits compatibility. No table-top mode. No tv output option. Not 1:1 library of games with original Switch. No joy-cons.

But you're the defending the possibility that it "could've" been cheaper. Now it's up to you to explain based on whatever production cost information you have that it "could" not have been cheaper. If you have something better than "businesses don't work like that", please do enlighten me.
No, not that guy but the burden if explanation is still on you. You haven't placed numbers on any of those things (because you can't). If you want to say it's worth less than $200 to you, that's fine, but to say it "could've been cheaper" is generally taken to mean the cost of manufacturing itself is significantly lower, which you don't know.

Which goes back to "that's not how it works"; your personal valuation of a product does not determine its price or cost to make. That's what is being argued.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
The Tegra has USB 3 on its SOC. But no, it doesn’t have a DP/USB 3 muxer.

The iFixit Teardown makes this clear, because you can clearly see this additional crossbar IC on the board: https://www.diodes.com/products/connectivity-and-timing/switches-mux/protocol-switches/usb-switches/part/PI3USB30532

That thing’s entire purpose is to take a straight USB 3 stream and a straight DisplayPort stream and mux the DP connection into the USB3 signal. Basically it’s adding the alternate mode capabilities the Tegra doesn’t ship with.

I did some napkin math in another post but basically if I wanted to buy 3,500 ICs today I’d pay about $1.50 per. Wild ass guess, Nintendo at their volumes might get them as low as a $1 per.

So, cut that chip off the board of the Lite, wire the Display directly to the SOC, and they make an extra million dollars for every million Lites they sell.

Financially it makes sense to me that if TV Out is off the table for the Lite, they’d go for the extra profit rather than just lock it via software. But like I said, we’ll have a concrete idea in September when we see a teardown
I believe that the purpose of this is that there's no other way to do charging, data transfer and video out concurrently.

But the reason the Lite does not have any kind of video out is likely because they have not designed the thermals around running in the higher resolution TV mode. In order to make it smaller/cheaper/lighter.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,731
Any indication so far that the lite also got the same rumoured CPU change?
I don't think it will matter - the battery life is already stated with a nice example. It doesn't sound like a massive difference at all, and the potential changes being made to the standard sku (that also may be in Lite) are likely to make negligible difference, as with other systems. Currently you get "potentially" an extra hour out of BotW, while also having smaller screen / no rumble / no joycon charging etc. Those changes alone may account for the majority of that difference
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,530
I love the price and it looks cute, but I find playing switch handheld to be pretty uncomfortable. Especially with any game that uses the right stick for camera. Also, the current joycons are delicate and the new design has yet to be proven.

A grip could probably solve the ergonomics, though! A thing I don't use now because my switch is mostly docked.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
993
I believe that the purpose of this is that there's no other way to do charging, data transfer and video out concurrently.
Well, yeah.

USB 3 has tons and tons and tons of optional things. High power charging? Optional. DisplayPort over alternate mode? Optional. Thunderbolt 3 over alternate mode? Optional. Etc? Optional. Manufacturers need to decide on what they want to support, and then cobble together a base USB 3 controller and any and all additional ICs that implement the optional functionality.

That's why USB-C ports are such a consumer mess. This port on your laptop will charge, but this one won't. This one does DisplayPort, this one doesn't. This one is Thunderbolt 3 only, no USB 3. This one is the other way around.

Manufacturers save money by leaving out any optional ICs whenever they can.

So yeah, the USB 3 spec technically allows for charging, data transfer over USB 3, and video and audio out concurrently, but none of that is guaranteed for any given port -- you get it by implementing a bunch of optional parts of the spec.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
968
If you want to say it's worth less than $200 to you, that's fine, but to say it "could've been cheaper" is generally taken to mean the cost of manufacturing itself is significantly lower, which you don't know.
Except my first response was to the person who said $100 difference is justified, who did not put any number on that justification either.
 

Spish!

Member
Oct 27, 2017
91
This is not a revision, it is a alternative model not replacing the current model, covering different needs. People without a TV, people sharing a TV or people who simply don't care about TV functionality. I know, Era exclusively consists of people who have a TV, live in households where every single member has their own TV and Switch/PS4/Pro/ One/S/X under every single TV, but you know, there is a real world out there which bought the handheld only 3DS 75 million times. And Nintendo is dumb enough to adress that market.

But yes, I get your demand for a revision and I'm not opposed to it. But corporate apologist whore that I am, I get why Nintendo isn't adressing that low demand yet.
If only there was a product that could address both the home console and the portable market at the same time...
 
Feb 10, 2018
12,118
For $100 more you get a dock, controller adapters, TV out, detachable controllers for multiplayer along with a kickstand for tabletop, rumble, IR, and a bigger screen. It's already a better value and it has seen bundles and price drops that will continue and get better around the holidays.


I think for now the OG Switch needs to be Nintendo's premium model so its gonna stay $300. My guess is that Switch Pro will actually just be the revised OG Switch (bigger screen/no bevel, faster, improved dock, similar size to make joy cons compatible) and will take the place of the existing Switch so that Nintendo isn't selling 3 different versions long term.
It will have yo be differated with the naming, unless they dis continue the old switch, like smartphone + tablet makers do.
 

Boy Wander

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,898
UK
Its the same resolution screen but smaller sized (and with no auto brightness sensor). No other upgrades to the Tegra processor that they revealed. Only 30mins more battery estimation? No connectivity with bluetooth headsets. No Labo kits compatibility. No table-top mode. No tv output option. Not 1:1 library of games with original Switch. No joy-cons.

But you're the defending the possibility that it "could've" been cheaper. Now it's up to you to explain based on whatever production cost information you have that it "could" not have been cheaper. If you have something better than "businesses don't work like that", please do enlighten me.
What price do you think it should be?
 

meenseen84

Member
Feb 15, 2018
75
I would have loved a 199$ model that has TV support. I would either play handheld or with a pro controller on TV.
 

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,012
I would have loved a 199$ model that has TV support. I would either play handheld or with a pro controller on TV.

I've mentioned this before but this version with rumble and a small dock that could double as a kickstand with TV out would be amazing (and it could be sold as a separate accessory to keep the price low). But as others have pointed out, that model would probably cannibalize the existing OG Switch.

I'm okay with the idea of a portable model, my main disappointment is no rumble.
 
Jan 10, 2018
3,614
Cool, but make a smaller revision to increase portability. It's really very simple unless you're Nintendo.
Let me repeat reality one last time.

A company can:

A) release a revision of a product selling gangbusters, satisfying the demand they are already satisfying

or

B) release a product which caters to different demands and sell more units within the same family of hardware.

And yes, Nintendo is insanely dumb for picking the obvious option b), which after the insane failures like Apple and Android devices, can only lead to their doom and satisfyied costumers.
 

What-ok

Member
Dec 13, 2017
1,198
PDX OR
Has anyone posted nintendoomed™️ yet? Lol. Anyway, can’t pass up some new Nintendo hardware. Yellow and turquoise please! =^D
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,095
I really like how Nintendo basically said "We saw you try and fail the Vita, Sony, so here's how to do it right".

I fucking ADORE the Vita, it's probably my favorite platform for its indies and niche Japanese titles.

The Lite is basically the Switch picking up the torch from where the Vita left off, with actual mainstream appeal and system sellers, and portable but console-budget games.

The Lite is everything the Vita wanted to be.

I love that.
Except the feature rich OS the Vita had. Switch doesn't have that, and it's worse off for it.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
993
Yikes. Seems like an easy thing to put in? I have no idea just guessing. Wonder why it was left out completely.
Money?

Say those linear steppers cost $0.50 for the pair of them.

Sell five million Lites, that's $2,500,000 spent on stepper motors. Now, what's market research say about rumble on a mobile device? Are you likely to lose more than $2,500,000 in sales profits if you launch without it? No? Cut them.

Everything's "easy to put in". It all cuts into your profits, though.
 

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,012
Money?

Say those linear steppers cost $0.50 for the pair of them.

Sell five million Lites, that's $2,500,000 spent on stepper motors. Now, what's market research say about rumble on a mobile device? Are you likely to lose more than $2,500,000 in sales profits if you launch without it? No? Cut them.

Everything's "easy to put in". It all cuts into your profits, though.

Will never see that research, but would be interesting to see. I can tell you that for me this is actually an issue that has me on the buy/wait line and I've seen several posters in this thread react with some measure of disbelief on this issue.

Whether intentional or not, Nintendo is being stealthy and concealing this no rumble thing. They widely announced no HD Rumble and everyone is repeating that. My initial reaction was no big deal because I assumed that just meant it would have basic rumble features. I really had to dig through articles to find an answer yesterday. (I played DOOM entirely portable for example - rumble and feeling the guns was a big deal.)
 

totofogo

Member
Oct 29, 2017
94
Yes, for all except a select few (albeit prominent ones - Splatoon 2, animal crossing, Pokemon) which don't have cloud saves (something related to cheating through save file manipulation), in which case for those specifically you would need to click on "transfer save" on one Switch and "receive save" on the other before you go out, so much less seamless. But this is only for those games.
Ugh, forgot about this. I was really thinking about grabbing one of these to use alongside my Switch but those three games specifically will all sting to not always have at the ready.