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Nintendo Switch Lite announced at $199, launches September 20th, "dedicated handheld" (smaller, has D-Pad, has gyro, no HD Rumble, no dock/TV output)
- Thread starter NotLiquid
- Start date
I gotta disagree with this. DS sold a lot on its casual software library but by the time the 3DS came out that market had been completely absorbed by the phone market. The majority of the 3DS audience were buying it for Nintendo software and/or the niche Japanese support it got.
It's...not a little bit of both? 3DS launch underperformed heavily despite having Nintendogs and I think nintendo didn't want to localize the latest brain training on 3DS in europe because the demand for it was gone.
That's the issue. I had it on the original, Splatoon, and smash Bros controllers. It's a design issue.
The 3DS still had several 'casual' games that sold like Tomodachi Life and Nintendogs + Cats that still sold close to 4 million and is in the top 20 3DS games sold. And Monster Hunter, which the 3DS has several of to the Switch one title that is a port of the 3DS version.
And again, you're ignoring that had more to do with the hardware, not the software. Just look at the Wii U to see how having great software alone can't push a system if people don't want it. Heck, the game launched with a 2D Mario game when the Wii and DS versions of that series sold gangbusters.
In the case of the 3DS, it was too expensive for most people who wanted to buy it.
And they quote me, I was talking about the vita...
Ive already said I though the switch price was a bit high.
again, those games were not system sellers on 3DS so they dont' really matter here.
Neither was Mario Kart 8 for the Wii U, but we saw how that all changed when that game got on hardware that people wanted.
OG Switch was (and is still) priced like a console and with games that are priced like console games. So whoever says "of course Switch sold well, it's a handheld", besides ignoring the console aspect of the Switch (and no, it's not just a handheld with TV out, since performance changes when it is docked), is totally ignoring that a significant part of the reason handhelds sold so well in the past was their price (and their games' prices), and when a handheld deviated from it, it sold far less.
NSMBU being the big launch game was precisely part of Wii U's launch woes, though, as it launched only a few months after NSMB2 and generally didn't set itself apart from its predecessor. By looking and playing so similar to NSMBW it actively added to the "Is Wii U a new console?" confusion.
Nintendo's support in Wii U's first year was also absolutely horrendous. Nintendo's first major first party release in 2013 was Pikmin 3, more than 6 months after the console's launch and even then Pikmin was never particularly big to begin with. Using Wii U as an example for a console that flopped despite receiving great support is somewhat bizarre as Nintendo did terribly in the super important first year on the market.
This is basically all I'm saying. People who said the Switch was going to be successful because Nintendo ruled handhelds is missing the plot. The Switch is a console since it was priced like one in both software and hardware and Nintendo marketed it as a console.
Even with the Switch Lite, you still need to fork over $60 for most of the high end software. Like people keep mentioning Pokemon while ignoring that Pokemon for the Switch is going to be $60 to the 3DS $45. So that's an extra cost that people should considered before saying, 'the Switch is cheaper, so it will capture the 3DS audience'. Yeah, the hardware is cheaper, but the software sure isn't.
Switch Lite is cheaper? How much did 3DS cost when Pokemon came out on it?
My point using the Wii U was to show how having great software doesn't pushed hardware if people don't want it.
If you want another example, look at the Dreamcast. To this day people say it had the best launch of any console, yet it didn't sell because people didn't want it. That and PS2 ate its lunch.
That isn't what I'm saying. I never once said that Switch Lite won't sell. My point is that one shouldn't just assumed that the 3DS audience will jump on it in groves.
Cheaper in that the Switch Lite is $100 cheaper than the Hybrid model. I think the Switch Lite was about as expensive as the 3DS when XY launched and it also had the 2DS which was $50 cheaper. However, the Switch's software are console prices, not handheld prices. So even the Switch Lite can't be looked at as a pure handheld when you're still dropping $60 on games when handheld software have traditionally been cheaper, even with the Vita.
...Mario Kart 8 was the biggest system seller on Wii U, tho?
I'm not sure you understand this topic very well
Yeah, people forget the drought after the Wii U launch, which is what effectively ended any potential hype for the system. Compare it to the Switch.
In the same amount of time between NSMBU and Pikmin 3 (9 months actually), the Switch saw the release of Mario Kart 8, Arms, Splatoon 2, Mario+Rabbids, Pokken, Fire Emblem Warriors, Mario Odyssey, and Xenoblade 2. And that's just Nintendo properties, not counting third party support and very robust indie support. During those months for Wii U, the only notable releases were Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Lego City Undercover, and a WarioWare game. I love those games, but the comparison between the two systems is beyond night and day.
This also doesn't account for, as you said, the fact that Breath of the Wild was a release way higher up on the richter scale than NSMBU in the first place.
Now, I do believe that the Wii U ended up with an amazing slate of games by the end of its life, but it took way too long for them to start coming out, and it was too late by the time it happened.
With a 125 pages of posts, I have no doubt that someone else probably has already said this, but what I cannot understand is why Nintendo didn't add TV out for 720p. I don't understand a ton about video out, but I don't think it'd require the console to work any harder to output in 720p since the screen is at that resolution right? I bet once the homebrew scene cracks this thing open video out will work like it should have by default.
That's actually a pretty interesting point and I think Nintendo's strategy of the past two years was actually successful in combating the perception of "Switch (Lite) games are too expensive" in advance. They successfully positioned Switch as their new console and thus also created the perception that Switch games are obviously console titles being sold at console prices. I think this perception will transfer to the Lite, too: People don't think they buy handheld games, they buy console games that can be played on a handheld. And people are already conditioned to think console games are more valuable.
If we look to Switch Lite as a successor for Nintendo 3DS, we are seeing one of the biggest generational laps ever.
Nintendo 3DS - Mario Kart 7:
Switch Lite - Mario Kart 8 DX:
Nintendo 3DS - Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon:
Switch Lite - Luigi's Mansion 3:
Nintendo 3DS - Mario Kart 7:
Switch Lite - Mario Kart 8 DX:
Nintendo 3DS - Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon:
Switch Lite - Luigi's Mansion 3:
When u think about it, it would be kind of stupid because it would require joycons to be detachable which would require seperate joycon purchases or a pro controller for 60/70$. At that point you might as well buy a regular switch which outputs full force to the tv. Lite is supposed to cover a more portable option. For the guys who say "switch isn't a very portable handheld". It looks really slick and portable in the introduction video.
Switch is a beast🦖If we look to Switch Lite as a successor for Nintendo 3DS, we are seeing one of the biggest generational laps ever.
Nintendo 3DS - Mario Kart 7:
Switch Lite - Mario Kart 8 DX:
Nintendo 3DS - Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon:
Switch Lite - Luigi's Mansion 3:
Really curious how the buttons feel on the Lite. Not a huge fan of the buttons on the joy cons, but man if they feel anything like the Pro Controller buttons, then I'm sold on it.
But it didn't sell the hardware, which was the point I'm making.
And I understand the topic well, thank you. Saying that the Switch Lite should sell to the 3DS audience isn't a given based on software that's on the Switch compared the to 3DS and the price of the software. Like people keep mentioning Pokemon while ignoring that Pokemon on the Switch is going to be $60 to an audience who have bought Pokemon for $30 to $45.
When it comes to software output, much of the point of the switch is that it's both. All this years big games (animal crossing, Luigi's mansion, links awakening, Pokemon) would have traditionally been for the handheld. The lite is a pure handheld and has parity in software.
Except it isn't. Consumers in general were not willing to pay $250 for a handheld and $60 for the software. Yet, they're more than willing to pay these prices for a console. Like the Vita despite having near console level graphics couldn't sell it games for $60.
For example, do you think people would be willing to pay $400 for a handheld even if it had near PS4 graphics? For reference, $400 was the price at the PS4 at launch.
It's hard to tell what would have happened if Mario Kart 8, Splatoon, etc had come out in the first year of the Wii U's life. As it stood, the system launched to mediocre hype, and the stellar games only started coming out a full year after it hit the market. The stench of failure had already completely overwhelmed any discussion (what little there was) of the system before even Mario 3D World came out. It never had a chance once 8 months had passed and there still wasn't a signature game released for the system.
Animal Crossing started as a console game. So did Luigi's Mansion. That and even the Wii had an Animal Crossing game and the Wii U was going to have Luigi's Mansion according to the Treehouse. The only pure handheld series coming to the Switch from you list is Pokemon.
At best, it would probably sell as much as the N64 and Gamecube. The Wii U was just not an appealing produce even after it got games. For example, the N64 had epic droughts even worst than the Wii U (seriously, you could go literal months without any games) throughout its lifetime and still sold more thanks to the US.
Mario Kart 8 did sell hardware.
It sold 8.8M units on an installbase of 13M.
System sellers does not mean the system has to be successful, just needs a notable impact on hardware.
Nintendogs and Brain Age 3DS did not crack the top 10 on 3DS.
So...
i just wanted to mention that in Germany, the Lite sold out in all 4 colours at Amazon in less then 24 Hours.
After that 2 major Outlets, Mediamarkt and Saturn sold out all 4 colours under 48 Hours the day after Amazon.
This thing will definatly go very well for Nintendo since everybody is jumping on the lites.
Switch is just a lot nicer to look at thru the eyes looking at it as a handheld.
720-1080 under low details just isnt cutting it for me in terms of a home console much longer.
But as a straight handheld for 200$ it gets the job done.
i just wanted to mention that in Germany, the Lite sold out in all 4 colours at Amazon in less then 24 Hours.
After that 2 major Outlets, Mediamarkt and Saturn sold out all 4 colours under 48 Hours the day after Amazon.
This thing will definatly go very well for Nintendo since everybody is jumping on the lites.
Switch is just a lot nicer to look at thru the eyes looking at it as a handheld.
720-1080 under low details just isnt cutting it for me in terms of a home console much longer.
But as a straight handheld for 200$ it gets the job done.
Nintendogs was still int the top 20 and a few of the the top spots went to Monster Hunter, which the Switch only has one of and it's a port of the 3DS game. There is also Tomodachi Life which is a casual game that broke the top 10, but there is no such game on the Switch.
the switch would be a pretty shitty value proposition at $300 if it weren't a handheld, so yes, these definitions are arbitrary.
Why would it be shitty at $300 if it was just a handheld? It still plays near PS4 graphics game and the games are ports of consoles instead of game made specifically for the hardware like DOOM for the Gameboy Color. If anything, it will be more expensive since the tech to make something portable is far more expensive than the tech to make something stationary. Which is why laptops usually cost more than desktops even when the desktop is packing more power.
N64 and Gamecube were the most powerful machines available at release though. N64 was also gimmick free, apart from inventing the modern analogue stick, and had games PS1/Saturn could only dream of producing like Ocarina of Time. GameCube had the best performing hardware in polygons per second of its generation, Smash Melee and Rogue Squadron very early and was super cheap very quickly.
Wii U was expensive (and never came down), weak, had a slow OS, had massively confused branding (called 'Wii' but didn't use Wii Remotes but could use them but didn't come with one and maybe it was just a Wii add on), a gimmick nobody cared about.
Even then I think Wii U could have sold 20 million if they'd dropped the price, dropped the gamepad (release a Pro Controller Mario Kart bundle) and pushed it harder. Instead they let it die and moved on.
They need an extra piece of equipment inside the unit to convert the signal to a display port protocol, so that the single USBC port can charge and send video/audio. This piece probably isn't very expensive (like $1) but over millions of Switches that adds up.
The Gamecube was actually behind the original Xbox in term of raw power. And N64 did have a gimmick and it was the analog stick that many people mocked was only good for Mario 64 at the time.
Also, the Wii U had several games that couldn't even work without the Gamepad.
Yeah but that power differential was almost meaningless when it came to real world performance
It's likely not even the cost saving. It's 10% because of engineering (like would it need a separate special dock or adjusted heat management etc), 90% because of product differentiation.
1) Gamecube was released two months before the Xbox so even if that were true what I actually wrote stands
2) Gamecube had the highest performing games in polygons per second of the generation in the two Rogue Squadron games, both far above Xbox's highest performer which was Rallysport Challenge 2. So in the real world, Gamecube was #1 in polygons per second. Fully bump mapped at 60fps too.
Which I literally said in my post?
And they were morons, it was the future, so much so Sony ripped it off ASAP without even waiting until the next generation.
Two months is really nothing in terms of a console's life. And those were two games out of Xbox's entire library which had a heads up over Gamecube more often than not. That and some games just didn't come to the Gamecube.
Except you said 'no gimmick except the analog', which reads as downplay. That analogy stick was considered a huge gimmick at the time on par with the DS having two screens.
Hindsight is always 20/20. Just like giving a portable system two screens was considered a cute gimmick before Nintendo released a real successor to the Gameboy.
Are you actually following the argument? I was agreeing with your point about the Wii U not being appealing and explaining further why that was.
Gamecube and N64 had the best graphics performance of their generation, even if it was 'only two games' for Gamecube. Could the same be said for Wii U? No, not even close.
You're also really stretching trying to make out that the analogue stick was a gimmick. It was a very smart evolution that quickly caught on with everyone because it was clearly vastly superior for 3D games to anyone who played Mario 64 for two minutes.
So was the accessibility of DS touch screen and the Wii motion control, which were quickly absorbed into the fabric of control options (touch and motion eventually becoming the dominant forms of play control in the world post iPhone, which was three years after the DS).
Wii U Gamepad as a controller for a home console? Not so much. A true gimmick that one.
I'm bummed that there is no purple version! I guess I will wait for an inevitable snes edition
How is an essential control method for 3D games that was adopted by every single controller that followed a gimmick? Nobody considered the N64 analog stick a gimmick at the time, one play session of Mario 64 would convince you it wasn't a gimmick. There was nobody saying analog was a gimmick back then, that's stupid
I'm still dumbfounded they couldn't get this to dock, even as an optional accessory. Like they went out of their way to remove it. I doubt at 16nm even the docked clocks would require active cooling.
Yes they did. I remember because I remembering reading it all the time in magazines at the time and talking about it with my brother. The analog stick was considered a gimmick that was only there to show off Mario 64. It's easy to mocked now, but I lived through it.