Nintendo Switch Now Has 1,800+ Games, Less Than 2 Years Since Launch

Slam Tilt

Banned
Member
Jan 16, 2018
4,993
But the minute I suggest that there’s a QC issue with the eShop and there’s too much shovelware getting through? I’m a console warrior.
The problem is that there is no common definition for "shovelware". Too many people use it as a euphemism for "stuff I don't like," which is -- quite simply -- stupid with a Capital S. And then we end up with people calling all indies "shovelware", or all PS2 ports "shovelware", or anything made for casual gamers "shovelware." Heck, I even saw one web site put together a list of "all the mobile games that have been ported to the Switch," and the list included titles that originated on consoles, such as de Blob.

The truth is that every successful platform will have lots of games, and many of those games will be stuff that you, Random Joe Gamer, has no interest in whatsoever. And that's JUST FINE. Anyone who sneers "shovelware" while looking down their nose at games just because they're not interested in them are elitist snobs and should be jeered as such.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,273
The problem is that there is no common definition for "shovelware". Too many people use it as a euphemism for "stuff I don't like," which is -- quite simply -- stupid with a Capital S. And then we end up with people calling all indies "shovelware", or all PS2 ports "shovelware", or anything made for casual gamers "shovelware." Heck, I even saw one web site put together a list of "all the mobile games that have been ported to the Switch," and the list included titles that originated on consoles, such as de Blob.

The truth is that every successful platform will have lots of games, and many of those games will be stuff that you, Random Joe Gamer, has no interest in whatsoever. And that's JUST FINE. Anyone who sneers "shovelware" while looking down their nose at games just because they're not interested in them are elitist snobs and should be jeered as such.
Well put.

I don't doubt that there is a good amount of low effort low quality games on the Switch but claiming that's the vast majority is just offensive to developers.

Even worse is that no one is actually giving examples of these many games plaguing the shop.
 
Oct 25, 2017
425
It's really impressive that they have used indies to create a legitimate alternative to big third party support.

The more surprising/disappointing thing is that Nintendo itself has had virtually no eshop presence, nor has the combined Wii U + 3DS pipeline resulted in a more robust first party lineup (especially if one discounts Wii U ports).
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,769
The irony is that even amongst Nintendo fans, I’m probably one of the least dissatisfied with their practices...
But the minute I suggest that there’s a QC issue with the eShop and there’s too much shovelware getting through? I’m a console warrior. Ah well I’m sure I’m not the first person to have issues with him and I won’t be the last.
You know what never-mind.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
4,678
The problem is that there is no common definition for "shovelware". Too many people use it as a euphemism for "stuff I don't like," which is -- quite simply -- stupid with a Capital S. And then we end up with people calling all indies "shovelware", or all PS2 ports "shovelware", or anything made for casual gamers "shovelware." Heck, I even saw one web site put together a list of "all the mobile games that have been ported to the Switch," and the list included titles that originated on consoles, such as de Blob.

The truth is that every successful platform will have lots of games, and many of those games will be stuff that you, Random Joe Gamer, has no interest in whatsoever. And that's JUST FINE. Anyone who sneers "shovelware" while looking down their nose at games just because they're not interested in them are elitist snobs and should be jeered as such.
Fair point which deserves a fair answer. Hopefully this isn’t too long and ranty.

You’re right shovelware is a subjective term, but you can’t dismiss the term simply for being subjective, because then you’re dismissing people’s right to have quality standards. And obviously when people (and me specifically) are talking about shovelware, it goes without saying that we’re being subjective.

Specifically my issue is that there seem to be zero quality standards and that does drown things out (I’ve had trouble finding games I didn’t realise were on Switch, and missing games which were on sale). I’ve mentioned before a series of badly google translated soft erotic novels with images from shutter stock because that stuck in my mind. But even looking on the latest releases you’ve got Akihabara Crash, Tokyo School Life, Percy’s Predicament Deluxe (seriously look that one up). These are games getting through Switch’s QC process but nowhere else.

These are obviously the worst of the worst, but there are an absolute ton of easy mobile ports (often completely unoptimised, some still in portrait mode) which I would certainly class as shovelware, and I know a lot of people would agree with me on. As you say it’s subjective, but that seems like a silly response to questions over videogame quality which is entirely subjective.
 
Oct 28, 2017
112
But really there are many bad, strange games in the eshop. It's turning into a google play honestly, though I don't mind this sort of diversity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,603
Fair point which deserves a fair answer. Hopefully this isn’t too long and ranty.

You’re right shovelware is a subjective term, but you can’t dismiss the term simply for being subjective, because then you’re dismissing people’s right to have quality standards. And obviously when people (and me specifically) are talking about shovelware, it goes without saying that we’re being subjective.

Specifically my issue is that there seem to be zero quality standards and that does drown things out (I’ve had trouble finding games I didn’t realise were on Switch, and missing games which were on sale). I’ve mentioned before a series of badly google translated soft erotic novels with images from shutter stock because that stuck in my mind. But even looking on the latest releases you’ve got Akihabara Crash, Tokyo School Life, Percy’s Predicament Deluxe (seriously look that one up). These are games getting through Switch’s QC process but nowhere else.

These are obviously the worst of the worst, but there are an absolute ton of easy mobile ports (often completely unoptimised, some still in portrait mode) which I would certainly class as shovelware, and I know a lot of people would agree with me on. As you say it’s subjective, but that seems like a silly response to questions over videogame quality which is entirely subjective.
Tokyo School Life has "Very Positive" reviews(9/10 with 565 reviews) for the Steam version and comes from M2 and PQube, so yeah if you consider that shovelware you're probably considering a lot of quality stuff shovelware just because it doesn't personally appeal to you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
Tokyo School Life has "Very Positive" reviews(9/10 with 565 reviews) for the Steam version and comes from M2 and PQube, so yeah if you consider that shovelware you're probably considering a lot of quality stuff shovelware just because it doesn't personally appeal to you.
I mean, it’s a high school erotic visual novel with a bad translation. So I’m quite comfortable calling that low quality. But you do you.
 

Slam Tilt

Banned
Member
Jan 16, 2018
4,993
You’re right shovelware is a subjective term, but you can’t dismiss the term simply for being subjective, because then you’re dismissing people’s right to have quality standards.
But that's exactly what you're doing when you dismiss entire swaths of games as "shovelware" -- "all these games aren't interesting to me, therefore they shouldn't interest you, either."
Specifically my issue is that there seem to be zero quality standards and that does drown things out (I’ve had trouble finding games I didn’t realise were on Switch, and missing games which were on sale).
You're confabulating two separate problems, the quality of the titles in the eShop and the findability of the eShop itself. Findability is a continuous problem in e-commerce that I'm well aware of, and nobody -- even outside of video games -- has a viable solution yet. Just look at Steam or the PlayStation Store for examples.

As for quality, like you said, that's an entirely subjective argument used to dismiss things you dislike, and has no place in this discussion. One man's trash is another man's treasure.
But even looking on the latest releases you’ve got Akihabara Crash, Tokyo School Life, Percy’s Predicament Deluxe (seriously look that one up). These are games getting through Switch’s QC process but nowhere else.
And if someone likes those and buys them, then what? Are you going to tell them their tastes are bad and they should feel bad?
These are obviously the worst of the worst, but there are an absolute ton of easy mobile ports (often completely unoptimised, some still in portrait mode) which I would certainly class as shovelware, and I know a lot of people would agree with me on.
Ah, appealing to the invisible crowd of supporters, a classic! Next you'll be telling me you're the spokesman for the Silent Majority of gamers.
As you say it’s subjective, but that seems like a silly response to questions over videogame quality which is entirely subjective.
Video game quality is not entirely subjective -- a game that crashes six minutes after playing or corrupts save files is unarguably bad quality, for instance. You can't use "it's all subjective" as a shield to hide the core of your elitist view that "SOME games (which I like) are high-quality titles, and OTHER games (which I don't like) are 'shovelware' that should be buried in a dark hole forever."
 
Oct 18, 2018
7
Shovelware on Wikipedia:

- Shovelware is derogatory computer jargon for software bundles noted more for the quantity of what is included than for the quality or usefulness.
Shovelware on Urban Dictionary:

- Software that is hastily made, without proper testing, and 'shoveled' down consumers throats in order to make some quick cash.
Shovelware on Era:

- Games that I haven't heard about before;
- Games that I do know but either:
a. have already played on another platform;
b. don't match my personal tastes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
But that's exactly what you're doing when you dismiss entire swaths of games as "shovelware" -- "all these games aren't interesting to me, therefore they shouldn't interest you, either."

You're confabulating two separate problems, the quality of the titles in the eShop and the findability of the eShop itself. Findability is a continuous problem in e-commerce that I'm well aware of, and nobody -- even outside of video games -- has a viable solution yet. Just look at Steam or the PlayStation Store for examples.

As for quality, like you said, that's an entirely subjective argument used to dismiss things you dislike, and has no place in this discussion. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

And if someone likes those and buys them, then what? Are you going to tell them their tastes are bad and they should feel bad?

Ah, appealing to the invisible crowd of supporters, a classic! Next you'll be telling me you're the spokesman for the Silent Majority of gamers.

Video game quality is not entirely subjective -- a game that crashes six minutes after playing or corrupts save files is unarguably bad quality, for instance. You can't use "it's all subjective" as a shield to hide the core of your elitist view that "SOME games (which I like) are high-quality titles, and OTHER games (which I don't like) are 'shovelware' that should be buried in a dark hole forever."
Its not unreasonable to have some kind of standards as to what games get on a system’s store. It’s not elitist. It’s curation. Its quality control. It’s what other stores do.

I’d agree that me simply demanding games be removed because they aren’t up to my (still incredibly low) standards would be silly. But I’ve never said the games shouldn’t be allowed in ‘just because’. More choice is better, and it’s not as if poor quality games stop better quality games existing.

The reason I want better levels of quality control is as I’ve said from the very start. Discoverability. You say it’s conflating two issues, but it’s not. One is intrinsically linked to the other. It’s something Steam continues to struggle with and something developers complain about constantly. I don’t really want to speak on behalf of a developer on this forum because it’s waaayy not my place, but I always think of Cosmic Star Heroine not finding the audience the devs hoped it would on Switch. When I heard that I thought: well I’m not surprised. It’s bloody noisy on Switch so if you’re not one of the hyped up indie devs I bet it’s hard to get noticed.

There’s also another issue in protecting consumers from bad products. With the very limited information available on the eShop it’s easy to be duped into buying something that’s dodgy. And let’s be honest here, some of these games are extremely dodgy. Bad translations, awkward controls from mobile porting, inappropriate content, asset flipping. Saying ‘one mans trash is another mans treasure’ is just handwaiving actual issues with these games. And ultimately, why wouldn’t you want the games to be held to higher standards? Maybe some of the games don’t get through, but maybe some of them get through but the developers have to spend a bit of time getting them to the minimum possible level.

EDIT: oh and you got banned for system warring. XD why did I bother
 
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