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Nintendo Switch Now Has 1,800+ Games, Less Than 2 Years Since Launch
- Thread starter Deleted member 249
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The problem is that there is no common definition for "shovelware". Too many people use it as a euphemism for "stuff I don't like," which is -- quite simply -- stupid with a Capital S. And then we end up with people calling all indies "shovelware", or all PS2 ports "shovelware", or anything made for casual gamers "shovelware." Heck, I even saw one web site put together a list of "all the mobile games that have been ported to the Switch," and the list included titles that originated on consoles, such as de Blob.
The truth is that every successful platform will have lots of games, and many of those games will be stuff that you, Random Joe Gamer, has no interest in whatsoever. And that's JUST FINE. Anyone who sneers "shovelware" while looking down their nose at games just because they're not interested in them are elitist snobs and should be jeered as such.
Well put.
I don't doubt that there is a good amount of low effort low quality games on the Switch but claiming that's the vast majority is just offensive to developers.
Even worse is that no one is actually giving examples of these many games plaguing the shop.
It's really impressive that they have used indies to create a legitimate alternative to big third party support.
The more surprising/disappointing thing is that Nintendo itself has had virtually no eshop presence, nor has the combined Wii U + 3DS pipeline resulted in a more robust first party lineup (especially if one discounts Wii U ports).
The more surprising/disappointing thing is that Nintendo itself has had virtually no eshop presence, nor has the combined Wii U + 3DS pipeline resulted in a more robust first party lineup (especially if one discounts Wii U ports).
Yep, Wii was worse but Switch is still young and you already have to dig a bit to find the great stuff, it's quite annoying tbh.
Fair point which deserves a fair answer. Hopefully this isn't too long and ranty.
You're right shovelware is a subjective term, but you can't dismiss the term simply for being subjective, because then you're dismissing people's right to have quality standards. And obviously when people (and me specifically) are talking about shovelware, it goes without saying that we're being subjective.
Specifically my issue is that there seem to be zero quality standards and that does drown things out (I've had trouble finding games I didn't realise were on Switch, and missing games which were on sale). I've mentioned before a series of badly google translated soft erotic novels with images from shutter stock because that stuck in my mind. But even looking on the latest releases you've got Akihabara Crash, Tokyo School Life, Percy's Predicament Deluxe (seriously look that one up). These are games getting through Switch's QC process but nowhere else.
These are obviously the worst of the worst, but there are an absolute ton of easy mobile ports (often completely unoptimised, some still in portrait mode) which I would certainly class as shovelware, and I know a lot of people would agree with me on. As you say it's subjective, but that seems like a silly response to questions over videogame quality which is entirely subjective.
Tokyo School Life has "Very Positive" reviews(9/10 with 565 reviews) for the Steam version and comes from M2 and PQube, so yeah if you consider that shovelware you're probably considering a lot of quality stuff shovelware just because it doesn't personally appeal to you.
I mean, it's a high school erotic visual novel with a bad translation. So I'm quite comfortable calling that low quality. But you do you.
Oooh I want
If a someone doesn't like a game and it doesn't have a high production value, it's shovelware
But that's exactly what you're doing when you dismiss entire swaths of games as "shovelware" -- "all these games aren't interesting to me, therefore they shouldn't interest you, either."
You're confabulating two separate problems, the quality of the titles in the eShop and the findability of the eShop itself. Findability is a continuous problem in e-commerce that I'm well aware of, and nobody -- even outside of video games -- has a viable solution yet. Just look at Steam or the PlayStation Store for examples.
As for quality, like you said, that's an entirely subjective argument used to dismiss things you dislike, and has no place in this discussion. One man's trash is another man's treasure.
And if someone likes those and buys them, then what? Are you going to tell them their tastes are bad and they should feel bad?
Ah, appealing to the invisible crowd of supporters, a classic! Next you'll be telling me you're the spokesman for the Silent Majority of gamers.
Video game quality is not entirely subjective -- a game that crashes six minutes after playing or corrupts save files is unarguably bad quality, for instance. You can't use "it's all subjective" as a shield to hide the core of your elitist view that "SOME games (which I like) are high-quality titles, and OTHER games (which I don't like) are 'shovelware' that should be buried in a dark hole forever."
Successful platforms have shovelware [See: NES, PSX, PS2, DS, Wii], I'm not sure why everyone is trying to point it out like it's some kind of anomaly.
Shovelware on Wikipedia:
- Shovelware is derogatory computer jargon for software bundles noted more for the quantity of what is included than for the quality or usefulness.
- Shovelware is derogatory computer jargon for software bundles noted more for the quantity of what is included than for the quality or usefulness.
Shovelware on Urban Dictionary:- Software that is hastily made, without proper testing, and 'shoveled' down consumers throats in order to make some quick cash.
Shovelware on Era:- Games that I haven't heard about before;
- Games that I do know but either:
a. have already played on another platform;
b. don't match my personal tastes.
Its not unreasonable to have some kind of standards as to what games get on a system's store. It's not elitist. It's curation. Its quality control. It's what other stores do.
I'd agree that me simply demanding games be removed because they aren't up to my (still incredibly low) standards would be silly. But I've never said the games shouldn't be allowed in 'just because'. More choice is better, and it's not as if poor quality games stop better quality games existing.
The reason I want better levels of quality control is as I've said from the very start. Discoverability. You say it's conflating two issues, but it's not. One is intrinsically linked to the other. It's something Steam continues to struggle with and something developers complain about constantly. I don't really want to speak on behalf of a developer on this forum because it's waaayy not my place, but I always think of Cosmic Star Heroine not finding the audience the devs hoped it would on Switch. When I heard that I thought: well I'm not surprised. It's bloody noisy on Switch so if you're not one of the hyped up indie devs I bet it's hard to get noticed.
There's also another issue in protecting consumers from bad products. With the very limited information available on the eShop it's easy to be duped into buying something that's dodgy. And let's be honest here, some of these games are extremely dodgy. Bad translations, awkward controls from mobile porting, inappropriate content, asset flipping. Saying 'one mans trash is another mans treasure' is just handwaiving actual issues with these games. And ultimately, why wouldn't you want the games to be held to higher standards? Maybe some of the games don't get through, but maybe some of them get through but the developers have to spend a bit of time getting them to the minimum possible level.
EDIT: oh and you got banned for system warring. XD why did I bother
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It's possible that's true while also being true they've severely ruined the credibility of their online offerings.
Those are rookie numbers, you got to pump those numbers up
Come back when you forgot you purchased Okami because it was buried under the other 80+ games taking over your console without a folder system
Idk. I guess if I didn't own any other platforms I'd have more of an interest in what's offered. An issue as well is how poorly many of the ports perform. However critical, I do love my switch. I'm very excited to see the future of Nintendo consoles and I'm sure if they keep with this trend of console/mobile they'll do well.
I know this is supposed to sound like good news but yeesh. It's impossible to find good games in the eshop, it's pages after pages of dumb mobile games and shitty indies with stick figure characters and the like. The discover section is not much better either tbh.
For every Undertale or Hollow Knight there's 200 completely garbage titles.
For every Undertale or Hollow Knight there's 200 completely garbage titles.
The problem isn't the quantity of "shovelware", it's the inability to browse/discover effectively. The biggest no-brainer thing the eShop needs is a rating system, so you can at least exclude 1-star games from browsing. I also want reviews, but that would require Nintendo allowing its users to use words within their interface, and we all know that means kids could be in danger of seeing the word "fuck", so that's a no go (what are parental controls even for?)
There should be more tabs and a more intuitive interface, like I should be able to click on a "platformer" tag on a game's page and browse other platformers. A robust "you might also like" system would be useful too. Blacklisting/whitelisting individual games, franchises, and even entire genres could also really clean up the interface (as long as that is just GENRES. If you want, you should be able to exclude FPS or mobile-based games for example, but being able to blacklist anything that's indie would be problematic).
The news posts with lists of games are pretty bad. Most of them are just ways to advertise Nintendo games everyone already knew about, even if they're not even the same genre as what the news post implies. And a notification when wishlist items go on sale is needed.
I don't think games should be excluded unless they're like, Steam Greenlight level. Which is still subjective anyway. But even if "filled with shovelware" was a totally accurate take, well, having a bunch of bad games doesn't make good games stop existing. There's just more, and more is always better, since every bad game is a good game to someone, and as long as they go in knowing it's got a low rating they can make the informed decision to enjoy it regardless because it has something in it that speaks to them.
There should be more tabs and a more intuitive interface, like I should be able to click on a "platformer" tag on a game's page and browse other platformers. A robust "you might also like" system would be useful too. Blacklisting/whitelisting individual games, franchises, and even entire genres could also really clean up the interface (as long as that is just GENRES. If you want, you should be able to exclude FPS or mobile-based games for example, but being able to blacklist anything that's indie would be problematic).
The news posts with lists of games are pretty bad. Most of them are just ways to advertise Nintendo games everyone already knew about, even if they're not even the same genre as what the news post implies. And a notification when wishlist items go on sale is needed.
I don't think games should be excluded unless they're like, Steam Greenlight level. Which is still subjective anyway. But even if "filled with shovelware" was a totally accurate take, well, having a bunch of bad games doesn't make good games stop existing. There's just more, and more is always better, since every bad game is a good game to someone, and as long as they go in knowing it's got a low rating they can make the informed decision to enjoy it regardless because it has something in it that speaks to them.