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HeroR

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
7,450
1.6 million with the PS2 version sure.

PS2 version wasn't even released outside of Japan. The bunk of Symphonia's sells came from the Gamecube, which sold a million by itself. Despite the Gamecube being far less popular than the Switch and at this moment the Switch has a bigger user base than the Gamecube at its peak.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,926
I'm talking release quality: we've not had anything in line with Soul Calibur 2, Resident Evil 4 or Tales of Symphonia yet
If we do an aligned overall comparison for Bamco and Capcom in first the 25 months (aka: generally when we have Switch dates through) on Nintendo home consoles since N64:

Bandai Namco Nintendo 64
  • 64 de Hakken! Tamagotchi Minna de Tamagotchi World
  • Famista 64
  • Super Robot Spirits (Banpresto)
Bandai Namco Nintendo Gamecube
  • Chanriko Hero (Banpresto)
  • Dragon Ball Z: Budokai
  • Dragon Drive: D-Masters Shot
  • Family Stadium 2003
  • From TV Animation: One Piece Treasure Battle
  • Mr. Driller: Drill Land
  • Pac-Fever
  • Pac-Man World 2
  • Pac-Man VS
  • Ribbit King
  • Shaman King: Soul Fight
  • Smashing Drive
  • SoulCalibur II
  • Tales of Symphonia
  • Ultimate Muscle: Legends Vs. New Generation
Bandai Namco Wii
  • Active Life: Outdoor Challenge
  • Crayon Shin-Chan: Saikyou Kazoku Kasukabe King Wii (Banpresto)
  • Daikaijuu Battle: Ultra Coliseum
  • Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2
  • Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3
  • Ennichi no Tatsujin
  • Family Jockey
  • Gegege no Kitarou: Youkai Daiundoukai
  • Gintama: Yorozuya Chuubu
  • Haneru no Tobira Wii: Girigirissu
  • Happy Dance Collection
  • Kekkaishi
  • Klonoa
  • Kotoba no Puzzle: Mojipittan Wii
  • Kotoba no Puzzle: Mojipittan Wii Deluxe
  • Mobile Suit Gundam: MS Sensen 0079
  • Namco Museum Remix
  • Nodame Cantabile: Dream Orchestra
  • One Piece Unlimited Adventure
  • One Piece Unlimited Cruise 1: The Treasure Beneath the Waves
  • Ouchide Infinite Puchi Puchi Wii
  • Pro Golfer Saru
  • Pro Yakyuu Family Stadium
  • SD Gundam: Scad Hammers
  • The Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces
  • SoulCalibur Legends
  • Taiko no Tatsujin Wii
  • Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
  • Tamagotchi no Furifuri Kagekidan
  • Tamagotchi Party On!
  • We Cheer
  • We Ski
  • We Ski & Snowboard
Bandai Namco Wii U
  • Fujiko F. Fujio Characters Daishuugou! SF Dotabata Party!
  • Gotouchi Tetsudou: Gotouchi Chara to Nihon Zenkoku no Tabi
  • Kamen Rider: Battride War II
  • Kamen Rider: Summonride
  • One Piece Unlimited World: Red
  • Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures
  • Pac-Man and the Ghostly Adventures 2
  • Taiko no Tatsujin: Tokumori!
  • Taiko no Tatsujin: Wii U Edition
  • Tank! Tank! Tank!
  • Tekken Tag Tournament 2: Wii U Edition
Bandai Namco Nintendo Switch
  • Billion Road
  • Chou Tousouchuu & Chou Sentouchuu Double Pack
  • Dark Souls: Remastered
  • Dragon Ball FighterZ
  • Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2 for Nintendo Switch
  • Girls und Panzer: Dream Tank Match DX
  • Go Vacation
  • Gotouchi Tetsudou for Nintendo Switch
  • Kamen Rider: Climax Scramble Zi-O
  • Katamari Damacy Reroll
  • Little Nightmares: Complete Edition
  • My Hero: One's Justice
  • Namco Museum
  • Nari Kids Park: HUGtto! PreCure
  • Nari Kids Park: Kaitou Sentai Lupinranger VS Keisatsu Sentai Patoranger
  • Nari Kids Park: Ultraman R/B
  • Naruto Shippuden: Ultimate Ninja Storm Trilogy
  • Neko-Tomo
  • One Piece Pirate Warriors 3: Deluxe Edition
  • One Piece Unlimited World: Red: Deluxe Edition
  • Pac-Man Championship Edition 2 Plus
  • Pro Yakyuu Famista Evolution
  • SD Gundam G Generation Genesis
  • Super Dragon Ball Heroes: World Mission
  • Super Robot Taisen T
  • Taiko no Tatsujin: Drum 'n' Fun!
  • Tales of Vesperia: Definitive Edition
Capcom Nintendo 64
  • none
Capcom Nintendo Gamecube
  • Auto Modellista
  • Capcom Vs. SNK 2 EO
  • Disney's Magical Mirror starring Mickey Mouse
  • Mega Man Network Transmission
  • P.N.03: Product Number 03
  • Resident Evil
  • Resident Evil 0
  • Resident Evil 2
  • Resident Evil 3: Nemesis
  • Viewtiful Joe
Capcom Wii
  • Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law
  • Mega Man 9
  • Neopets Puzzle Adventure
  • Okami
  • Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition
  • Resident Evil Archives: Resident Evil
  • Resident Evil Archives: Resident Evil 0
  • Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles
  • Sengoku Basara 2 Heroes
  • Tatsunoko Vs. Capcom: Cross-Generation of Heroes
  • We Love Golf!
  • Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barabos's Treasure
Capcom Wii U
  • Disney's DuckTales Remastered
  • Dungeons & Dragons: Chronicles of Mystara
  • Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
  • Monster Hunter Frontier G
  • Resident Evil Revelations
Capcom Nintendo Switch
  • Capcom Beat 'Em Up Bundle
  • Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen
  • Mega Man 11
  • Mega Man Legacy Collection
  • Mega Man Legacy Collection 2
  • Mega Man X Legacy Collection
  • Mega Man X Legacy Collection 2
  • Monster Hunter Generations Ultimate
  • Okami HD
  • Onimusha: Warlords
  • Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trilogy
  • Resident Evil 7: biohazard Cloud Version
  • Resident Evil Revelations
  • Resident Evil Revelations 2
  • Street Fighter 30th Anniversary Collection
  • Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
That's what happens when the console maker actually care about Japan instead of "Western-izing" everything, it's actually sad to see how the Japanese market fell off since several years, and no double Nintendo hardware this time around mean it's not going to get better.
Why cater to a smaller demographic
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
Japan is the third largest game market for consoles. That's a big market to miss out on and part of the reason Xbox has almost no worldwide presence.

Plus it is home to a lot of game developers. When your console is successful there, then those companies are more inclined to support it.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
What....

How is already near PS4 LTD in Japan? That's insane. They must really love their portable devices. My goodness.
Portable devices are very popular in Japan.
And the Switch basically unified a console and a handheld.

I don't know if people have done that, but it would be interesting to compare Switch LTD to WiiU/3DS LTD combined and Wii/DS LTD combined to see how this unified approach stacks up to the previous approach.
 

Acevil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
315
Plus it is home to a lot of game developers. When your console is successful there, then those companies are more inclined to support it.
Plus markets like France, really eat up Eastern focused games.

Nobody should do this because it would be useless and not make sense.

For those confused why this is useless metric is someone like myself could easily own both Wii U and 3DS (I own two 3DSes) and only one switch. I imagine large portion Wii U audience, namely in Japan also owned 3DS.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Plus it is home to a lot of game developers. When your console is successful there, then those companies are more inclined to support it.

I don't think that's true any more, if it was PS4 would probably have a lot less support.

That's the thing, I want to pin down the exact thing that sets those apart.

Dragon Quest is actually a good example. DQXI saw a massive decline from DQIX despite the existence of a 3DS version and a bit part of that is that DQIX had a lot of social aspects, such as local multiplayer, the ability to create your own hero and a system that inspired Streetpass. In comparison DQXI was a standard, linear, story based game.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
And how does the Switch compare to Wii/DS and WiiU/3DS in that regard?

But, keep in mind that I wanted the other comparison to see how hardware and software sales stack up to put Switch numbers in perspective since the Switch is Nintendos first unified console. This wasn't as much about the success of this approach from a business standpoint, but rather from a unit sale perspective.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
And how does the Switch compare to Wii/DS and WiiU/3DS in that regard?

But, keep in mind that I wanted the other comparison to see how hardware and software sales stack up to put Switch numbers in perspective since the Switch is Nintendos first unified console. This wasn't as much about the success of this approach from a business standpoint, but rather from a unit sale perspective.

2 devices cannot be replicated by one unit wise. The market for unique buyers is not 250m like Wii + DS is. It's a pointless comparison.
 

HeroR

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
7,450
That's the thing, I want to pin down the exact thing that sets those apart.

It basically amount to what makes a Japanese game vs what makes a 'western' game.

Overall, Japanese games tend to be more 'traditional' while western games prefer 'progession'. Like with Dragon Quest, the core base of the game hasn't really changed that much since the first game and when the series did try to go in a different direction like making it an action RPG for Dragon Quest 9, the Japanese fans didn't like it. While western RPG fans tend to like action-RPG, or something like the battle system in Xenoblade, more than turn base. This is even seen with Octopath Traveler when western and Japanese gamers like different aspect of it.

Monster Hunter blew up in Japan because of its local play and portability, something that isn't a high priority to western gamers since we usually prefer online and high end performance. It isn't an accident that Monster Hunter World blew up the way it did when it was put on HD consoles and PC, the graphic was greatly upgraded, and the game was made easier in several ways. The QOL upgrades also helped, but Monster Hunter was going in that direction anyway since some of the QOL upgrades are in Monster Hunter Generations.
 

Conor419

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,320
London
There are a lot of people naming ports and remasters; when I'd argue that a better barometer for third party support is when flagship games are designed from the ground up for the system.

People are naming unreleased games such as Bayonetta 3, SMTV, and while I'm sure they will be very good, they are not yet released, and so I stand behind the point that the Switch is not yet ahead of the GameCube for Japanese third party support.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
the best barometer for support isn't "how many new games", it's "are our games (regardless of age) selling well enough to commit to more?"

all those new gamecube games don't mean shit when 3rd parties bounced quickly. they're still supporting the Switch with games, therefore third party support is better
 

nenned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,099
There are a lot of people naming ports and remasters; when I'd argue that a better barometer for third party support is when flagship games are designed from the ground up for the system.

People are naming unreleased games such as Bayonetta 3, SMTV, and while I'm sure they will be very good, they are not yet released, and so I stand behind the point that the Switch is not yet ahead of the GameCube for Japanese third party support.

At this point in GCN's life (entering its 2nd full year on the market), Symohonia and RE 4 hadn't been released either.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,926
There are a lot of people naming ports and remasters; when I'd argue that a better barometer for third party support is when flagship games are designed from the ground up for the system.

People are naming unreleased games such as Bayonetta 3, SMTV, and while I'm sure they will be very good, they are not yet released, and so I stand behind the point that the Switch is not yet ahead of the GameCube for Japanese third party support.
Of the 3 big GC games you listed before one was an arcade port and one wouldn't release for 2 more years relative to Switch's lifecycle. You've got this backwards, you've yet to prove GC is ahead of Switch holding to your own standards.
 

Conor419

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,320
London
At this point in GCN's life (entering its 2nd full year on the market), Symohonia and RE 4 hadn't been released either.

I'm not comparing their timelines one to one...I literally at zero point claimed that I was doing so...

Because (and I strongly suspect nobody here has read my original post, because it's actually stunning how many people are missing this) I have repeatedly stated that the Switch should eventually have better support overall?
 

Andri

Member
Mar 20, 2018
6,017
Switzerland
Whats the 3DS LTD in japan at? I doubt the switch could match that but this is great news to see

3DS is at 24.4 million.
Its unlikely anything will ever match that again to be honest.
Its literally the third best selling gaming device in Japan ever, having outsold PS2(best selling system ever WW) Doubled Wii and sold more than PS4 and PS3 combined.

Switch will cross 11-12 M by this time next year, coming close to Wii lifetime in Switches third year, and it might even cross 20m when all is said and done.
But 24.4(probably 25M when all is said) is a far far along goal, and nobody with serious analysis in mind could tell you if Switch can cross that.

But Switch will destroy 3DS in Software sales, and profitability wise its important to remember that much of these 24M 3DS systems were sold at a loss, while all 7+m switches, as well as all future Switches sold will be at profit.
 

Andri

Member
Mar 20, 2018
6,017
Switzerland
the lower threshold for mainstream platforms.

Wat.

If 20M is the lower threshold, that would mean there are only 4 systems to ever have been mainstream(PS2, GB, DS and 3DS), while systems like PSP, GBA, Famicon , PS1 and Wii were not mainstream.

You are saying for a system to be mainstream it has to be bought by the equivalent of 1/6 of Japans population.
 

sfortunato

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Italy
Wat.

If 20M is the lower threshold, that would mean there are only 4 systems to ever have been mainstream(PS2, GB, DS and 3DS), while systems like PSP, GBA, Famicon , PS1 and Wii were not mainstream.

You are saying for a system to be mainstream it has to be bought by the equivalent of 1/6 of Japans population.

PSP almost got there as it sold 19m units so it's in.

Of course I was referring to "modern" platforms (after 2000). Back then, the market was smaller so of course market leaders were selling less. From PS2 onwards, market leading platforms have sold more than 19-20m units.

GBA was going to reach that mark but was killed too soon.

Wii wasn't mainstream in the traditional sense. It had a big and fast success among casual gamers but was never able to actually attract a heterogenous audience like PS2, DS/PSP, 3DS.
 

Tito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,030
There are a lot of people naming ports and remasters; when I'd argue that a better barometer for third party support is when flagship games are designed from the ground up for the system.

People are naming unreleased games such as Bayonetta 3, SMTV, and while I'm sure they will be very good, they are not yet released, and so I stand behind the point that the Switch is not yet ahead of the GameCube for Japanese third party support.
You said they at the same point in their lifespan GCN had much better support than Switch.

Now you are saying that ports of flagship titles don't count, smaller games don't count, indie games don't count, rereleases don't count, etc, which is a huge supossition.

As a GCN only owner, I would've been ecstatic about announcements of ports of PS2 games like FFX, MGS2, DQ8, etc.

The truth is that Switch's Japanese support obliberates GCN's support. Sure, there's nothing like RE4, but what is as big as RE4 nowadays?

You have been proven wrong, end of story, just let it go.
 

Andri

Member
Mar 20, 2018
6,017
Switzerland
I'm not comparing their timelines one to one...I literally at zero point claimed that I was doing so...

Because (and I strongly suspect nobody here has read my original post, because it's actually stunning how many people are missing this) I have repeatedly stated that the Switch should eventually have better support overall?

You stated im multiple posts that Switch support is not "yet" as good as GC, which implies a comparision of timelines.

I'm talking release quality: we've not had anything in line with Soul Calibur 2, Resident Evil 4 or Tales of Symphonia yet
I mean, not yet, obv.
There are a lot of people naming ports and remasters; when I'd argue that a better barometer for third party support is when flagship games are designed from the ground up for the system.
People are naming unreleased games such as Bayonetta 3, SMTV, and while I'm sure they will be very good, they are not yet released, and so I stand behind the point that the Switch is not yet ahead of the GameCube for Japanese third party support.

Otherwise you are comparing all the games a system got in its lifetime, to only the games released on a system in its first 2 years, ignoring games already announced but not yet released.
And in that case i dont really get what prupose such a comparision would serve, since most of the time, a console will get more and better titles when it is older, since most projects take years to make, so a console that already lived its life will have more games that a console that only just begun, and whose best titles are still in the future.

PSP almost got there as it sold 19m units so it's in.

Of course I was referring to "modern" platforms (after 2000). Back then, the market was smaller so of course market leaders were selling less. From PS2 onwards, market leading platforms have sold more than 19-20m units.

GBA was going to reach that mark but was killed too soon.

Wii wasn't mainstream in the traditional sense. It had a big and fast success among casual gamers but was never able to actually attract a heterogenous audience like PS2, DS/PSP, 3DS.

Modern platform or not, i disagree that a device needs to sell to 1/6 of the countrys population to be considered mainstream.
Just think about that for a second, applying that to the USA would mean a device needs to sell 60M to be mainstream, something irc nothing ever did.
If you said 10 or maybe even 15 Million i could see some reason to that, but 20 is way to high a threshold, and certainly not "the lower threshold".
 

Conor419

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,320
London
You said they at the same point in their lifespan GCN had much better support than Switch.

Now you are saying that ports of flagship titles don't count, smaller games don't count, indie games don't count, rereleases don't count, etc, which is a huge supossition.

As a GCN only owner, I would've been ecstatic about announcements of ports of PS2 games like FFX, MGS2, DQ8, etc.

The truth is that Switch's Japanese support obliberates GCN's support. Sure, there's nothing like RE4, but what is as big as RE4 nowadays?

You have been proven wrong, end of story, just let it go.

Literally where did I say that?

Otherwise you are comparing all the games a system got in its lifetime, to only the games released on a system in its first 2 years, ignoring games already announced but not yet released.
And in that case i dont really get what prupose such a comparision would serve, since most of the time, a console will get more and better titles when it is older, since most projects take years to make, so a console that already lived its life will have more games that a console that only just begun, and whose best titles are still in the future.

Yes, this is literally what I am doing. I have said so many many times that the Switch has yet to receive quality games on the level of Symphonia or RE4, but that I expect this to be addressed by the end of the cycle. It was a throwaway, indisputable point, that, for some reason, dozens of people in this thread really struggled to comprehend.
 

Deleted member 35598

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
6,350
Spain
I don't think comparing the Switch numbers to the PS4 makes sense.

The Switch should be compared with Nintendo 3DS and the DS. The PS4 was always going to be surpassed in Japan.
 

Tito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,030

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,971
Breakdown, take down
Now it's on
Sold out, blow out
Donkey Kong
Well no, hell no
What you gonna do?
When they keep coming for you
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,142
Surprised anyone is surprised, especially with the PS3 performance in the Japan.

Sony has been wisely moving toward a more Xbox style strategy to the tee. Their Western studios dominate, the are service focused, and they are doing very aggressive co-marketing campaigns. This is something MS mastered in the 360 days. They lost focus with Mattrick and not building enough internal studios and chasing the Kinect bandwagon. But back to Sony, Sony even moved their executive leadership to California from Japan.
 

Tito

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,030
That post does not distinguish whether I'm comparing both systems year-by-year or both systems overall, pease learn to read.
It doesn't matter, it's still wrong. All major Japanese companies, besides Falcom (whose games still get released on it) are on board on the Switch.

You have the biggest third party games announced or released on it (MH, DQ, Yokai). GCN didn't have anywhere near the support the Switch has right now, at any point of its lifetime. The two biggest the biggest companies basically ignored the GCN (Square, Enix, Konami).

You have changed goalposts, you said support, then changed it to quality, then changed it to from the ground up, now you say you didn't give a timeframe. Stop.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
That post does not distinguish whether I'm comparing both systems year-by-year or both systems overall, pease learn to read.

What is the point of comparing third party support without a time frame and sectioning it to like 3 games you hand picked then? The Switch has already eclipsed the Gamecube in third party support in Japan. There are more games from more publishers of higher quality on average. There is no RE4. RE4 is one game. Even if you add Remake in it still is in the Switch's favor.