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Nintendo's discretional refund policy is unnacceptable

Oct 29, 2017
36
Europe
#52
I imagine you can do more with that one considering you are in the EU (I'm assuming)
Yes, I am from Europe but I have no idea how to fix the issue. Nintendo's response was that a refund for digital content from the eShop is not possible, I agreed to the TOS and thereby lose my right of revocation.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,151
#53
The Steam refund system should be standard everywhere, but even valve were forced to implement that by EU law. I don't understand why consoles haven't had similar pressure to change.
 
OP
OP
Pikma
Oct 25, 2017
5,825
#54
Yes, I am from Europe but I have no idea how to fix the issue. Nintendo's response was that a refund for digital content from the eShop is not possible, I agreed to the TOS and thereby lose my right of revocation.
Their TOS isn't enough to stop you from filling a complaint or even suing them, I'm not knowledgeable enough to point you in the right direction since I haven't lived in the EU for more than 6 months combined but I'm sure someone else here could help you, you should try making a thread!
 
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Oct 25, 2017
829
#60
I'm so glad every other product I buy in all areas of my life allows customers to return bad/defective items. They also don't seem to have an army of sycophants willing to defend the interests of billion dollar corporations over their own. I get better service buying my games on eBay. Game industry continues to be trash.
 
Dec 27, 2017
94
#61
This purposefully unclear policy on refunds is absolutely offensive as it's pretty damn obvious it only exists to discourage people from going through it while still allowing some to avoid potential backlash from certain scenarios
I don't know, NO REFUNDS seems pretty clear to me. They just let people get away with it once because the squeaky wheels get the grease.
 
Oct 29, 2017
36
Europe
#62
Their TOS isn't enough to stop you from filling a complaint or even suing them, I'm not knowledgeable enough to point you in the right direction since I haven't lived in the EU for more than 6 months combined but I'm sure someone else here could help you, you should try making a thread!
It's not so much about the money, I am just disappointed about the way they treat their customers.

- Obviously I never activated the DLC.
- I issued the request for a refund precisely 15 minutes after the purchase.
- It's my first request for a refund ever (from Nintendo or any other company).
- I used the same eShop account to buy 54 digital games (including many of Nintendo's full price games) and subscribe to Nintendo Switch Online.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,323
#63
It's probably possible to buy a digital game, ask for a refund, disconnect your console from the internet and keep playing the game for free, but that seems like a hassle. There's no real reason to not offer r
It's not so much about the money, I am just disappointed about the way they treat their customers.

- Obviously I never activated the DLC.
- I issued the request for a refund precisely 15 minutes after the purchase.
- It's my first request for a refund ever (from Nintendo or any other company).
- I used the same eShop account to buy 54 digital games (including many of Nintendo's full price games) and subscribe to Nintendo Switch Online.
Try again to maybe get some other person who's more willing to help.

Additionally threaten with reporting them to your country's better business bureau/consumer protection agency.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,941
#64
You would - in Europe at least.

EDIT: Which leads me to wonder if Nintendo's eShop is compliant with European laws in regards to refunds.
I live in Europe and I’ve never seen any shop that lets you open and play a game and still get a refund. Sealed only.
 
Oct 25, 2017
904
#68
It’s up to you to do your homework before you buy a game. If it were a physical game from nearly anywhere else, you wouldn’t have gotten a refund at all. They refunded you and you call them out?
You would - in Europe at least.

EDIT: Which leads me to wonder if Nintendo's eShop is compliant with European laws in regards to refunds.
No, not if the seal/foil is broken. You can't give back opened games in most retailers and if you can it's not because of laws.

Amazon germany: "Eingeschweißte und/oder versiegelte Datenträger werden nur zurückgenommen, wenn die Einschweißfolie noch ungeöffnet bzw. das Siegel unbeschädigt ist. "

Germany here and I refunded Mario Tennis Aces after opening it and losing interest quickly after an hour or so without problems on Amazon.

You were lucky then.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,941
#69
Germany here and I refunded Mario Tennis Aces after opening it and losing interest quickly after an hour or so without problems on Amazon.
That’s good to know, as I do use Amazon.de quite often. I still remember wanting to return Resident Evil 4 Wii to Fnac back in the day and practically getting laughed out of the store.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,244
#70
The Steam refund system should be standard everywhere, but even valve were forced to implement that by EU law. I don't understand why consoles haven't had similar pressure to change.
Yeah it should be.

But games (both digital and sealed physical games) are generally excluded from generic 14 day refunds in EU. And thus in most cases by law, you can't actually get refund. Of course broken games, if they can't be fixed in reasonable time, would be eligible for refunds, because that would fall under warranty.

Thus, Valve's (and Epic Stores) refunds go beyond what is required by law at least being in much easier to get (by allowing refunds for any reason).

Compare to for example GoG, who requires you to go thru support and troubleshooting process and they will only refund if they can't get it working.

And that's why they can get away without providing refunds.

That said Nintendo's is going to be in court due to no refunds for preorders . (otherwise, they seem to be fine with Nintendo's refund policy). So Nintendo might be forced to change that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,817
#71
So today saw myself in the need to contact Nintendo regarding a refund for the awful Pipe Push Paradise, which I bought just yesterday.

To give you a not-so-quick catch up of why I'm asking for a refund, which is the first time I see myself in the need to do so btw, basically:

Pipe Push Paradise is a PC puzzle game recently ported to the Switch eShop, pretty similar to Stephen's Sausage Roll, honestly for what I could try the game does seem to have a couple decent ideas, not a bad product by itself.

My problem with it though resides on the goddamn terrible port job they did with this thing. The controls are absolutely terrible and barely work, it's pretty clear to me they just slapped the original keyboard biddings onto the controllers buttons and called it a day. Moving, the one only mechanic this game is built on, is fucked up on both the controller stick and the d-pad, moreso on the stick which is nigh impossible to use because a slight push to any direction is recognized as multiple inputs towards that direction which results in extreme imprecision. D-pad is less terrible but still imprecise, the only way to make it work is treating it like a keyboard key, as in carefully pressing it in the direction you want to move (want to move 6 tiles to the left and 3 up? Gotta carefully press left 6 times and up 3 times)

So yeah, this honestly is unacceptable to me, and I'm not interested in asking the dev for a patch that might or might not come either so my next step was to contact Nintendo

So I did, and got what I imagine must be the usual response to these kind of things as every response by the rep was clearly just being copy paste'd

"As a rule, we aren't allowed to process refunds but let me see what I can do"

Then after giving them my details the rep took a couple seconds and sent me three paragraphs which basically said

"We might help you if we can, maybe, but don't expect anything from us ever again, please check reviews the next time"

(NOTE: I did check the few reviews this game had online and none mentioned the awful controls)

Honestly, regardless of what the outcome of my refund request is, I'm left off extremly dissatisfied by it. This purposefully unclear policy on refunds is absolutely offensive as it's pretty damn obvious it only exists to discourage people from going through it while still allowing some to avoid potential backlash from certain scenarios

Also the fact they recommend you to check for reviews of the game you want to buy before doing so when the eshop does not have any kind of review system is hilarious.

Edit: my grammar mistakes are also unacceptable
I take it that you're living in the US as from what I understand this seems to be a big problem as Sony is also pretty bad in this department.

It’s up to you to do your homework before you buy a game. If it were a physical game from nearly anywhere else, you wouldn’t have gotten a refund at all. They refunded you and you call them out?
Sorry but no, in the UK we get a 14 day cooling period that Nintendo follows so if I want a refund on my digital goods, then I am entitled to that refund.

The OP is not at fault for Nintendo terrible business practices, especially when said product was faulty.

Yes, I am from Europe but I have no idea how to fix the issue. Nintendo's response was that a refund for digital content from the eShop is not possible, I agreed to the TOS and thereby lose my right of revocation.
I think you have been mislead there, as when I buy product from the e-shop I am not given a warning that I am giving up my customer's right.

In fact in the e-mail they mention that I have 14 days to request a refund, but I suspect that might be due to UK cooling period law which applies to digital goods.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,323
#72
I live in Europe and I’ve never seen any shop that lets you open and play a game and still get a refund. Sealed only.
I think you might be correct. Generally you can return products even after you've used it, but there seems to be exceptions for movies, music, and software, presumably because it used to be super easy to copy them. Console games nowadays are harder to casually copy, but the exceptions are still in place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
829
#73
How is it possible that companies as large as ALDI are able to not only offer full refunds on their products, but also allow you to get a replacement in addition to getting your money back, yet with video games we have customers completely ok with getting stuck with a shitty product and willing to defend that company? You would think returning a digital product would be ridiculously easier to handle than all the overhead and loss that comes with returning physical goods.

Why is any of this acceptable and allowed?
 
Oct 26, 2017
969
#74
How is it possible that companies as large as ALDI are able to not only offer full refunds on their products, but also allow you to get a replacement in addition to getting your money back, yet with video games we have customers completely ok with getting stuck with a shitty product and willing to defend that company? You would think returning a digital product would be ridiculously easier to handle than all the overhead and loss that comes with returning physical goods.

Why is any of this acceptable and allowed?
A combination of weak laws regulating digital content and anticonsumer policies since the customers keep giving them money meaning they have no incentive to change. This is a moneymaking industy who cares bout goodwill
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,032
#75
Exactly this is a good reason to never allow it
Having some consumer protection on digital purchases is a good reason to never allow refunds?! Sorry, but that's bullshit. Perhaps the 2 hour limit should be lowered for some games (I played Tacoma recently and you could easily finish it within 2 hours. You could probably get the Platinum trophy within that time with a guide), but I think all shops should allow for refunds, and until they do I will never buy digital games at higher prices.
 
Oct 11, 2018
486
#76
I live in Europe and I’ve never seen any shop that lets you open and play a game and still get a refund. Sealed only.
Here's the thing about digital games though, they'll be returned in the exact same condition you bought them.

Having some consumer protection on digital purchases is a good reason to never allow refunds?!
I think he's talking about this in the eyes of the publisher. They will see it as lost revenue, same way they don't do demos for most games these days.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,373
#77
Damn, I had no idea the Pipe Push Paradise Switch port was bad. It's a pretty great puzzle game on PC
Exactly this is a good reason to never allow it
Nonsense. Similar refund policies exist on PC and have worked out great. "I didn't find it enjoyable" is even a valid refund reason on Steam, with up to 2 hours of playtime. Similarly on mobile, but their windows are usually smaller for obvious reasons.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,941
#78
I think you might be correct. Generally you can return products even after you've used it, but there seems to be exceptions for movies, music, and software, presumably because it used to be super easy to copy them. Console games nowadays are harder to casually copy, but the exceptions are still in place.
Yeah, that and also because there can be some time between picking the game up and returning it, even if as fast as next day, people can say they played it only one hour but there’s no way to tell they didn’t play it whole. Or watched a movie whole, which is even faster. It is a shame, but it can definitely lead to abuse.

At least with digital there’s better time tracking possibilities (either since download finished or actual playtime), not to mention there’s no physical destruction of a maker seal or any kind of wear on a physical good, so practices should be much better.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
736
New York, NY
#80
Seems like a lot of effort for $8.79. I'd take it as a loss.

I do wish more digital outlets had a refund policy though, similar to Steam. I've purchased $60 games that ended up on the shelf after a few minutes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
289
#81
Why is it anytime I've seen a thread on here or elsewhere talking about how bad Sony and Nintendo's refund policy is the almost immediate reaction from some is to blame the OP for being a dumbass? It makes no sense to me when people respond like that. Why wouldn't everyone want to have the ability to refund games that they don't enjoy? Is there a group of people that have never at any point bought a game and wished they hadn't? It's such a weird way to react to better consumer options.

I will say that because of Steam's refund policy I have bought way more games from genres I have never played before. It's allowed me to try games that I never would have thought I'd like. It's great. Sony and Nintendo should allow for the same.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,736
Madrid
#82
They said they might give you a refund for buying some dev's bad port and it's somehow Nintendo's fault?
So you asked to be refunded and they did refund you?
It’s up to you to do your homework before you buy a game. If it were a physical game from nearly anywhere else, you wouldn’t have gotten a refund at all. They refunded you and you call them out?
Tough luck OP, it seems the CBATRCACBDF is on patrol today.
Can't-Be-Arsed-To-Read Corporate-Apologist Consumer-Blaming Defense Force, for those not in the know.

Why is it anytime I've seen a thread on here or elsewhere talking about how bad Sony and Nintendo's refund policy is the almost immediate reaction from some is to blame the OP for being a dumbass?
Because corporations have been training consumers to be pro bono shills for decades.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,373
#83
Why is it anytime I've seen a thread on here or elsewhere talking about how bad Sony and Nintendo's refund policy is the almost immediate reaction from some is to blame the OP for being a dumbass?
Era is always like this when it comes to refunds. I can never quite pinpoint why. It seems like a mixture of not being familiar with platforms with actually pro-consumer refund policies, and people just straight up trying to defend their platform of choice. Because clearly Nintendo and Sony can't be the problem, it must be the consumer who didn't research properly. Right?

It's always fascinating, and I'm glad these people don't run any platforms I care about.
 
Jan 27, 2018
2,149
#84
Damn, I had no idea the Pipe Push Paradise Switch port was bad. It's a pretty great puzzle game on PC
It seems that other users in the eShop thread have really enjoyed the game.

By a looking at a video after being intrigued by the commentary of the controls, I think that the problem of Pikma is that he was expecting a game with a direct movement like the one in 'Stephen's Sausage Roll', and 'Pipe Push Paradise' is a game with a grid based movement, with the same philosophy of a roguelike: intended to be moving with small inputs in each direction. For example, in a roguelike, if you want to move three squares to the right, you need to press the right direction three times. And if you keep pressed the direction, it will enter in the "auto-run" movement option, which is why the movement feels "off" for the OP.

All of that said, I think that the quality of the game is not relevant to this topic.

And every consumer should have the rights to refund a game.

Indeed, I think that with this old mentality, Nintendo is losing sales.

In Steam, a lot of times I gave opportunities to small games, with zero reviews, zero feedback, only intrigued my a premise. And a lot of times, I ended discovering small hidden gems thanks to this.

But when you can throw your money by not having refunds, buying a real bad game, or a game that like the OP, is not the thing that you was expecting, it sucks, and make you feel less inclined to give opportunities to unknown games.

And at the end, it's not only against the law in Europe. I think that this damages to small developers without a budget for marketing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,373
#85
It seems that other users in the eShop thread have really enjoyed the game.

By a looking at a video after being intrigued by the commentary of the controls, I think that the problem of Pikma is that he was expecting a game with a direct movement like the one in 'Stephen's Sausage Roll', and 'Pipe Push Paradise' is a game with a grid based movement, .
This has nothing to do with the thread really, but Stephen's Sausage Roll is very much a grid based game.

I also notice that the user in the comment you linked to says one of the puzzles in PPP's opening area is tricky. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's one of the best examples of a puzzle which defies player expectations with an obvious solution that doesn't work I can think of.
 
Jan 27, 2018
2,149
#86
This has nothing to do with the thread really, but Stephen's Sausage Roll is very much a grid based game.

I also notice that the user in the comment you linked to says one of the puzzles in PPP is tricky. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's one of the best examples of a puzzle which defies player expectations with an obvious solution that doesn't work I can think of.
Damn, this has nothing to do with the topic, but you have sold me the game :)

I will bite the bullet in the next sale (long story also completely offtopic, I refuse to buy Digerati published games in Switch at full price, for its shitty practices of doing ALWAYS fire sales of a 50% or a 80% only a couple of months after release, screwing to the early adopters).
 
Oct 25, 2017
529
#91
It’s up to you to do your homework before you buy a game. If it were a physical game from nearly anywhere else, you wouldn’t have gotten a refund at all. They refunded you and you call them out?
If it were a physical game from anywhere else in most countries, you can EASILY get a refund.

I mean, wow, seriously?
 
Aug 17, 2018
20
#92
Has MS put in refunds on Live yet? I know they were talking about it for a while but I don't think I've seen the option ever.
No. Only insiders are promised refunds within time limit. Everyone else has to take their luck with customer service like Nintendo and PlayStation. I am denied twice refunds from Microsoft.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,941
#93
If it were a physical game from anywhere else in most countries, you can EASILY get a refund.

I mean, wow, seriously?
Huh, no. Games have a factory seal. As soon as that seal is broken the good is not worth the same anymore and it will never be new again, can’t be reshelved as new. You can get a refund as a very rare exception. Definitely not easily and definitely not in most countries in the world.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,266
Denver, Colorado
#95
Huh, no. Games have a factory seal. As soon as that seal is broken the good is not worth the same anymore and it will never be new again, can’t be reshelved as new. You can get a refund as a very rare exception. Definitely not easily and definitely not in most countries in the world.
None of this is relevant to the discussion of refunds for digital goods so I'm not sure why it's even being argued.
 
Oct 28, 2017
7,196
#97
Fully agreed. Especially with the terrible functionality on their online store.

No reviews or ratings? Limited screenshots and videos with no information about it being docked or handheld? Shit should be illegal.