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Nintendo's marketing of Xenoblade 2 has so far been abysmal
- Thread starter Shunt
- Start date
In case of Automata, SE actually provided some cool footage people could share and make crazy gifs of. This is what Xenoblade 2 is lacking so far. While "face discussions" were huge with Xenoblade X, sharing crazy mech gifs was even bigger -- in contrast to that, Xenoblade 2 discussions center in comparison almost exclusively on character design, because there's just not much else to show or talk about. Even when marketing is done in a grassroots way, you have to provide your fans with something cool. And this something is so far lacking for Xenoblade 2 -- hopefully the Direct will change this.
Hopefully this thread has run its course now that the direct was announced. I just wanted to say thanks for writing this. Just how Wind Waker was followed up with Twilight Princess, it looks like Monolith's next game (from the images that were shared), will be different in style, more akin to X. It would be cool to see the series move forward similar to Zelda, which has been able to accommodate multiple art styles and still receive critical praise.
Since Xenoblade is more fun to play than to watch, it would be awesome to see a demo dropped related to the direct. I look forward to seeing what's in store.
I just came back to this thread for this lol.. Thanksnow I hope everyone shuts ups and put this thread to rest till after the Direct
I mean it has had a 2017 release date since it's announcement back in January
I never believe that until they set an actual date. most stuff gets delayed. Plus i forgot about it lol. still looking forward to it.
it had a set date since September. collectors edition and themed pro controller and everything
This is a good summary. I agree with a lot of it. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.
Nope I haven't. Sad to hear those games are even worse is this regard.
A main point I want to make is that if Monolith is ever interested in reaching a wider audience, they seriously need to clean up their act with the character designs.
OP
OP
Give it a rest, man. I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing. They know their audience.
The first game has an amazing battle system actually, I got a real adrenaline rush playing at the high level complexity it offers.
(there's a lot to learn so the length of the game plays to this strength. )
The first game is actually more complex than the sequel tbh. There's nothing mediocre about X.
It just depends on if you want an open world game or not.
(Tbh they just need to fix the pacing of the narrative)
I know that opinions about games are subjective, but the idea that the first game is more complex than the second is completely bonkers to me.
XCX is one of the only games I've ever played that I can say that I beat without fully understanding the mechanics. I fully understood the mechanics of the first game the second each of them had unlocked.
In XCX? Honestly, I never understood the equipable item system and what each stat or bonus did. I found the names of each item totally impenetrable. I never understood the colour coded nature of the abilities. I never understood why some enemies would resist statuses etc and why some others didn't. I never truly understood auras. I never understood the synergy between different classes, I just levelled them up and activated abilities when the game made them glow - which was all the time. Never really understood which body parts were destroyable and which weren't. Never really understood what would cause a Soul Voice prompt. I never understood how online play worked, what the 'squad selection' thing at the start of the game was about. The game was shocking at explaining so much of that stuff, and I'm not someone who goes researching shit outside of the game.
There was nothing in the first game I struggled to understand, nothing at all.
XCX felt like layers upon layers of irrelevant mechanics. So many mechanics that each didn't matter much and could be safely ignored. And I love a good open world game, but thought XCX was a terrible open world game. It was a beautiful world design, but a poor playspace.
They've been dead on for their releases on the Switch so far. Here's hoping it stays that way.
I dont understand this line of thinking. They could put a major marketing push behind several games at once if they wanted to. Its not like theyre strapped for resources or anything.
Xeno 1 is definitely more complex because the affinity system in the first game interacts with more systems compared to the sequel and had a greater impact on certain aspects of the combat along with how your progression in the game was affected ( Where NPC's appeared, the limited locations they did appear at, and the general rebuild the colonies metagame in the first game) Quests were missable, and had to be completed before certain points in the game as well.
If you didnt use a guide you missed out on a lot of this stuff. ( Narrative impacting Side-Quests were also gated behind exp grinding quests unlike in the sequel)
I'd say the combat in the first game is kind of different too. Not necessarily more complex, but definitely explained way less. The way chain links operate and how medals are used in the game to set up combos isnt something most people know about ( even if they know how to upgrade character arts)
Xenoblade X is just more accessible of a game when it comes to figuring out how everything works ( provided you have the time to play the game)
The thing is in Xeno 1, you can literally skip out on all the aspects that encourage long term engagement with the world and literally just play the game's narrative. That works to people's favor in a linear game, but in an open world game, where progress is gated, its a bit counterproductive for the type of consumer who just wants to rush the game.
From a systems learning perspective, Xenoblade1 is WAY more obtuse than its sequel. I doubt most people pay attention to that considering half of them played the game with Shulk Sharla and Reyn feeling like they werent missing out on anything. But those are specifically for min-maxing your damage output and executing more complex chain attacks ( which is where the combat system really gets fun and most of the "MMO-lite" comparisons fall short for describing how the game is actually played)
As for Xenoblade X... you just have to read the in-game manual to explain things you dont understand.Its easy to figure everything out if you just read the text in the game ( granted a lot of it is small so I understand if that put you off doing anything).; But hey that;s where the Wii U's in game manuals help with explaining anything you dont fully understand. (soul voices are really just for mid match bonuses and these just help with surviving, or damage conditions for the end game bosses)
Also you can play the game without knowing how most of the stats work. Just explore everything before you do a story and you'll always be over-leveled for the story quests.
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My experience was the complete opposite. Even if there where some things unexplained, XC's combat had a lot of tutorials including tips on how to play with each character.
By comparison, XCX's combat was underwhelming. A lot of things were left unexplained. There was this comment around release that you'd surely need to read the game's manual because of the complexity of its systems.
That's without even going into the customization of skells, the different end-game builds and the Soul Voice system (that almost nobody cared to touch) in XCX.
I'd say that XCX is a far more complex game systems wise and sometimes the layers upon layers of mechanics felt a bit unnecessary.
Why do you keep bringing up soul voices? They're just battle effects that give you buffs/bonuses when you hit certain conditions.( as explained by the text next to them)
JRPGs are aimed at people who have the most time to play them (young adults) and spend time understanding their interface and the "hidden" complexities. Pokemon is actually a fantastic example.
In Xeno 1 every character has about 3 types of play-styles depending on their art set up and the track they chose
A good example is the last character you get.
She has 3 equipment suits for 3 types of play-styles
Power Speed and I forget what the last one is.
There are no tutorials in Xenoblade 1 that teaches you how to effectively use the stats in the game. Nobody points out that running around with Dunban naked allows him to dodge more attacks which with his specific arts set allows him to do way more DPS for each successive attack that he dodges.
Nobody explains how to craft Gems effectively in the games or how to use them ( or that they're very useful for expanding on how chain attacks work) (or to make special gems on the go to move 75% faster)
Nobody explains the various ways you can impove your damage output with chain attacks by linking arts between your characters using the Affinity system in the game.
Nobody explains any of that stuff. You figure it out by playing the game and messing around in the menus.
I guess its because the first game looks simple on the outset that people keep it simple, but its really not.
Hell someone played the game without upgrading any of their arts because they didnt know you could do that ahah
I think I understand why JRPGs are often aimed at young adults: Simply its because they have the time to play these games..
If the first game had multiplayer it'd be really easy to show how you could play with any of the characters and everyone would have very different playstyles.
JRPGs are aimed at people who have the most time to play them (young adults) and spend time understanding their interface and the "hidden" complexities. Pokemon is actually a fantastic example.
In Xeno 1 every character has about 3 types of play-styles depending on their art set up and the track they chose
A good example is the last character you get.
She has 3 equipment suits for 3 types of play-styles
Power Speed and I forget what the last one is.
There are no tutorials in Xenoblade 1 that teaches you how to effectively use the stats in the game. Nobody points out that running around with Dunban naked allows him to dodge more attacks which with his specific arts set allows him to do way more DPS for each successive attack that he dodges.
Nobody explains how to craft Gems effectively in the games or how to use them ( or that they're very useful for expanding on how chain attacks work) (or to make special gems on the go to move 75% faster)
Nobody explains the various ways you can impove your damage output with chain attacks by linking arts between your characters using the Affinity system in the game.
Nobody explains any of that stuff. You figure it out by playing the game and messing around in the menus.
I guess its because the first game looks simple on the outset that people keep it simple, but its really not.
Hell someone played the game without upgrading any of their arts because they didnt know you could do that ahah
I think I understand why JRPGs are often aimed at young adults: Simply its because they have the time to play these games..
If the first game had multiplayer it'd be really easy to show how you could play with any of the characters and everyone would have very different playstyles.
Here's the main difference between the games.
Everything you need to know about Xeno X is explained in the manual. Manual is very easy to understand and the text is nice and big. So its great.
In Xeno 1? Nothing I talked about was explained at all. Its just there. If you want to play the game and beat the high level superbosses you need to know all this stuff. (and if you want to really have a lot of fun playing with the combat system)
Its the difference between someone explaining to you what IV's in Pokemon are and the game actually telling you that they exist (like they do in Sun and Moon)
They;re both there, they add complexity to the game, what you chose to do about them however is limited by how aware you are of them impacting what goes on in the game on the smallest level. ( which is why you now have people constantly complaining about people who breed obsessively/hack pokemon to get perfect Iv's even though I guarantee you all they do is play the main story and dont participate in the competitive scene)
Actually I think the reasons the games dont demo well is because when you start trying to explain the various underpinnings of how the games work ( ie calculate damage) people's eyes glaze over and they start.
Its probably better they keep the explanations simple. I just had to make 3 long posts to even just label some of the ways the interlocking systems of these games affect how the player explores the worlds and impacts combat
Everything you need to know about Xeno X is explained in the manual. Manual is very easy to understand and the text is nice and big. So its great.
In Xeno 1? Nothing I talked about was explained at all. Its just there. If you want to play the game and beat the high level superbosses you need to know all this stuff. (and if you want to really have a lot of fun playing with the combat system)
Its the difference between someone explaining to you what IV's in Pokemon are and the game actually telling you that they exist (like they do in Sun and Moon)
They;re both there, they add complexity to the game, what you chose to do about them however is limited by how aware you are of them impacting what goes on in the game on the smallest level. ( which is why you now have people constantly complaining about people who breed obsessively/hack pokemon to get perfect Iv's even though I guarantee you all they do is play the main story and dont participate in the competitive scene)
Actually I think the reasons the games dont demo well is because when you start trying to explain the various underpinnings of how the games work ( ie calculate damage) people's eyes glaze over and they start.
Its probably better they keep the explanations simple. I just had to make 3 long posts to even just label some of the ways the interlocking systems of these games affect how the player explores the worlds and impacts combat
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I think our differences originate from a misunderstanding: you are talking about end-game, high level play, but I was mostly referring to having a basic-intermediate understanding of the battles needed to progress through the main story. In both XC and XCX you'll need to read some stuff outside the games to beat some of the most interesting bosses, but the majority of players will only reach an understanding of its systems good enough to complete the game.
It's been a long time so I don't even remember if XC had a physical manual, but even if that was the case, I don't remember reading it; it wasn't necessary to understand the mechanics and how to play with each party member. That's mainly because of in-game tutorials like this one:
XCX had those too. They weren't as comprehensive though; I needed to read the manual in order to get the most out of the new systems, and I had to learn about the classes and weapons of every character instead of those just being explained, mainly because the amount of playable characters more than doubled in X.
The game covers the basics though, so I'm not sure what's missing.
I never had any problems playing it, it's very familiar coming off the first game ( which is why the differences were so readily apparent to me, but they're far more similar than they are different)
Nintendo hasnt lost any money on any of the Xenoblade games yet. either
I never had any problems playing it, it's very familiar coming off the first game ( which is why the differences were so readily apparent to me, but they're far more similar than they are different)
Nintendo hasnt lost any money on any of the Xenoblade games yet. either
There are tutorial pop-ups for all of these things in Xenoblade 1. I played through it last year and there are popups telling you to upgrade arts (multiple times even, they say it again when you get Monado Shield), explaining you how chain attacks work in every detail - from art colors to affinity. The only thing they could have made clearer is gem crafting, because even with the tutorial I had to try it a couple of times before I understood it.
And the Dunban point is moot, as having him naked is only viable once you unlock the skills that improve his stats when naked. There's no benefit without those skills.
Honestly, to me, it always felt like Xenoblade X did a much poorer job at explaining its systems than Xenoblade 1.
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Most RPGs (to their complete detriment) don't actually set out to explain how stats effect the battle.
Because it's something meant to be discovered by the player as it's absolutely broken.
They explain how to craft gems. They don't explain how to take advantage of the system to get extremely high quality ones often because again, it's meant to be discovered because, you guessed it, it's absolutely broken when you know how especially early in the game.
What? Yes they do. They tell you about higher affiniity leading to better chances at extending chain attack length. They explain different arts of different color. They explain talent arts are wild.
Some of the stuff you're saying makes me think you weren't paying attention. XCX is way way way worse about providing good tutorials and not wasting the players time.
I'm talking about how you can link multiple player skills with medals to utilize during chain attacks (which is directly impacted by player affinity)
That's not explained anywhere in the games.
My point is that people do not pay attention to tutorials at all when they play video games considering the stuff they say. I dont really see how the explanations of how things work in X are worse than in XC.
Everything that you need to figure out is in the game somewhere (or in the manual)
Yo this guy knows what's up, Nintendo got to keep that amiable relationship. ;D
You'll have to be more specific because the game absolutely has a tutorial about skill links and affinity coins.
Hm, due to the thread, I rewatched Xenoblade 2's E3 Trailer.
It wasn't as mediocre as I remember.
The few bad things of the Battle FPS (which seems rectified), Pyra's VA, and Rex's "Take this!" (but he sounded surprisingly decent the rest of the trailer.), and the graphics (which have improved) seemed to overshadow my feelings on the trailer.
It's actually kind of decent
It wasn't as mediocre as I remember.
The few bad things of the Battle FPS (which seems rectified), Pyra's VA, and Rex's "Take this!" (but he sounded surprisingly decent the rest of the trailer.), and the graphics (which have improved) seemed to overshadow my feelings on the trailer.
It's actually kind of decent
Nier is a totally different situation. About the only thing that can be compared is people looking forward to the soundtrack.
For Automata, you had the excitement of a cult game most thought would never be followed up on getting a surprise sequel, leveraging the evangelical fanbases of both Platinum titles and Nier along with peripheral JRPG fans pulled in because it was a polished-looking ARPG with incredibly appealing character designs, an intriguing premise and fantastic music.
Xenoblade 2's strengths lies in different places, and doesn't seem to have as much of a capacity to distinguish itself with that sort of crossover appeal. Given the platform, series precedent and the fact it'll likely be a good game, I still think it's going to do well; but Nier's 2 million+ sales and fervent fan following aren't going to apply to it.
If you read the OP you'll see what he's complaining is not XB2 getting directs or not. It's about the marketing so far did not attract wider audience, and even make some of those who preordered the game feel boring and repetitive. Showing the same footage over and over again and being unreasonably protective about most basic game mechanics. The direct announcement doesn't proof OP wrong, and may actually support he's point.
Where were you when everyone was so shocked when it was confirmed by Nintendo to be coming out in December?
Xenoblade really doesn't seem to show well. They would need to show ridiculous square style cgi trailers to hype up the game and Nintendo just doesn't do that. They prefer realistic representations of their games, bad frame rate and all.
Y'all aren't really selling me on Xeno games with the talk of which is the worst one at tutorializing.
I really want to like these games, I tried the first and fell off pretty fast. I hope this one reviews well, I think having this portable might be the ticket.
I really want to like these games, I tried the first and fell off pretty fast. I hope this one reviews well, I think having this portable might be the ticket.
Ads are out in Japan lol
Edit: Never mind. They're just preorder cases for the game. T_T
Edit: Never mind. They're just preorder cases for the game. T_T
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