Nintendo's marketing of Xenoblade 2 has so far been abysmal

[Ishaan]

Alright, thanks for that, if that is the point to take off XBC2's marketing a fanservicey blades, that it's targeted to a specific, mostly Japan-based audience, then I can sort of make peace with it. Not because I think it's the right thing to do, but because it's not something I can do anything about.

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Yeah, I feel there's enough evidence to tell us what we need to know about what market segment Xenoblade 2 is being aimed at, why it's being developed, and what Nintendo hopes to gain from releasing it early on in the Switch's life. These are things people on both sides should keep in mind during discussions.

 

[KingSnake]

I think 16 pages in, there's really not much worth discussing any more. The general consensus (not just here, but everywhere) is this:

• This game isn't really in line with any market trends in the West
• As a result of this, NOA/NOE are understandably hesitant to spend money marketing it
• However, they do understand it will find its dedicated niche, hence the Collector's Edition

• In Japan, the game is being positioned as a product that appeals to the high-presentation anime games market (Tales etc.)
• Part of the reason Xenoblade 2 exists is to help attract other such games/developers to Switch
  
• As a result of this, Japan's marketing largely focuses on character spotlights (the Blades)

• Monolith Soft have indicated on numerous occasions that their long-term interests lie in games with global appeal and player communication
• Xenoblade X was their first attempt at such a project. A second project along these lines is presently being developed

So ultimately, it is what it is--a game targeted at a specific niche, for a specific purpose, and not really indicative of Monolith Soft's long-term goals. Nor is it indicative of Nintendo's willingness to support Monolith Soft's games with strong marketing and promotion. MS's next Switch game will be more indicative of both.

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I think this is a good summary. It aligns also with the shorter development cycle.

I hope they will come back to Xenoblade X series too at some point.

 

[Stealth]

The bottom line is, barely any JRPGs have been marketed as much and as well as Xenoblade 2 so I am not sure what the point of this thread is.

Every preview cycle has resulted in overwhelmingly positive previews for the game which for a JRPG again, is actually pretty rare.

The character design of the characters and the blades is personal opinion, nothing more.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Nintendo just revealed the Skyrim "Close Call" commercial, the second of the 3 games in the montage version. so Xenoblade is sure to get one of its own.

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This is more advertising than 99% of JRPGs. In fact JRPG I can remember getting commercials here is FFXV.

 

[Mark H]

I live in Japan so I'm not familiar with the sort of advertising done in US or EU.
Was there much ads going for Persona 5 or Tales of Berseria?
Maybe comparing the marketing effort to those titles would show clearer picture.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Persona 5 or Tales of Berseria?

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No TV ads afaik
Tales has a dedicated fanbase and Persona does too but also had excellent word of mouth leading to one of the biggest JRPG openings in NPD: 450-500k iirc

 

[TCTF Agent]

I live in Japan so I'm not familiar with the sort of advertising done in US or EU.
Was there much ads going for Persona 5 or Tales of Berseria?
Maybe comparing the marketing effort to those titles would show clearer picture.

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Just from my own perspective and being in Australia there weren't any TV ads for P5 or Berseria, but that's normal. In terms ot ads on platforms like YouTube though, where you'd think Atlus would put money in for targeted marketing, I never came across a P5 or Tales ad before any of the videos I watched.

 

[Shunt]

Monolith Soft have indicated on numerous occasions that their long-term interests lie in games with global appeal and player communication

So ultimately, it is what it is--a game targeted at a specific niche, for a specific purpose, and not really indicative of Monolith Soft's long-term goals. Nor is it indicative of Nintendo's willingness to support Monolith Soft's games with strong marketing and promotion. MS's next Switch game will be more indicative of both.

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Takahashi already has said one of his goals with XB2 is to target a wider audience. I dunno, in this thread, I feel like you've been trying to indirectly devalue this game because it's not the next evolution of XCX. If I'm wrong, then I apologise, but your posts in this thread have given me that vibe.

 

[Deleted member 2791]

JRPGs are usually never marketed to the public with TV ads and such. Xenoblade games are an exception since they're first party.

 

[Ishaan]

Takahashi already has said one of his goals with XB2 is to target a wider audience. I dunno, in this thread, I feel like you've been trying to indirectly devalue this game because it's not the next evolution of XCX. If I'm wrong, then I apologise, but your posts in this thread have given me that vibe.

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First, I love Monolith Soft and plan on playing the game. That said, it is what it is. Xenoblade 2 does not have the same potential for global appeal that XCX did, nor the newness of the first Xenoblade.

If Takahashi is saying that he feels this game will reach a wider audience, he is either very confident in the Switch's ability to sell software (which is a valid stance) or is largely referring to Japanese tastes, or simply saying what he feels needs to be said in order to position the project as an important new game. (Which is completely understandable. I would do the same thing his position.)

That having been said, if you look up the interviews Monolith have done over the last few years (as well as the information posted on their recruitment page at the moment), there is a very clear indication of what sort of games they want to be known for all around the world, and Xenoblade 2 is subjectively the polar opposite of that.

I wish you hadn't been so quick to draw the bias card. There's no conspiracy here. I love Monolith, and I have ever since Xenosaga 1. But again, Xenoblade 2 is what it is.

 

[BassForever]

-give a brief explanation of what the focus of the story is and who the characters are
-focus on the changes to the combat
-focus on how big the world is and a glimpse of some of the things we'll find

This is what I wanted from XBC2's marketing and they did exactly that

 

[Mark H]

No TV ads afaik
Tales has a dedicated fanbase and Persona does too but also had excellent word of mouth leading to one of the biggest JRPG openings in NPD: 450-500k iirc

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Just from my own perspective and being in Australia there weren't any TV ads for P5 or Berseria, but that's normal. In terms ot ads on platforms like YouTube though, where you'd think Atlus would put money in for targeted marketing, I never came across a P5 or Tales ad before any of the videos I watched.

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Then I guess it really comes down to what Nintendo are showing that some people have a problem with.
In terms of exposure, it's been in pretty much all the directs and gaming events which is quite a lot for any game regardless of genre.

So I decided to go back to how XCX was presented in terms of early trailers to see what was so different:
Jan 2013 reveal
https://youtu.be/6GxUMMGyZcM
June 2013 update
https://youtu.be/APWTJMyM4qg
June 2014 E3 trailer
https://youtu.be/Hg2PTVi7fl8
Jan 2015 exploration trailer
https://youtu.be/AvpNXhzscjQ
April 2015 JP only story trailer, 1 week before JP release
https://youtu.be/boBSQXVo5lU
And I believe they did 30 minutes 3 part series in the 2 months leading up to JP release, explaining the world, combat, and dolls.

Looking back, I have to admit that Nintendo were much more focused on what they wanted to show, with huge open world and giant flying mechs to be put in center stage.

 

[LoneScone]

I haven't read through the thread, but as someone who loved Xenoblade Chronicles I have no interest in this game. I'm pretty disappointed in the direction this series is going. Never played Xenoble X.

 

[PancakeFlip]

Takahashi already has said one of his goals with XB2 is to target a wider audience. I dunno, in this thread, I feel like you've been trying to indirectly devalue this game because it's not the next evolution of XCX. If I'm wrong, then I apologise, but your posts in this thread have given me that vibe.

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I thought this was made as a direct contrast to XBX, I thought people were upset the game basically had no story. The game felt very experimental in a bad way. I don't think an RPG like that works very well without a story. I actually couldn't beat the game and almost destroyed the disk out of frustration that nothing I did actually mattered. I was exploring for the sake of exploring, the enemies were mostly wildlife, the whole game was just busy work and a grind that didn't lead to anything of value.

To top all off your character wasn't important so why even care? You were playing a support role, which isnt in and of itself bad but the way it was done just didn't work very well to motivate me to keep playing. XBX was just a complete mess to me.

 

[Shunt]

First, I love Monolith Soft and plan on playing the game. That said, it is what it is. Xenoblade 2 does not have the same potential for global appeal that XCX did, nor the newness of the first Xenoblade.

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It's as if you want Monolith Soft to apologise or something. XCX was made to appeal to percieved Western tastes, btw. Global appeal would surely include Japan, right?

That having been said, if you look up the interviews Monolith have done over the last few years (as well as the information posted on their recruitment page at the moment), there is a very clear indication of what sort of games they want to be known for all around the world, and Xenoblade 2 is subjectively the polar opposite of that.

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Story-focused JRPGs with large, open environments, deep, layered combat and customisation aren't what they want to be known for? Come off it.

XB2 is a game Takahashi has wanted to make ever since drawing XCX to a close. "It is what it is" indeed.

 

[KingSnake]

Looking back, I have to admit that Nintendo were much more focused on what they wanted to show, with huge open world and giant flying mechs to be put in center stage.

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They showed much more info and videos and more often for Xenoblade X through all the channels. And not because it was announced too soon. If you search between January 2015 and April 2015 you will find a ton of new info popping up every 2 weeks or so. That was a much more focused effort to show the game. Including those 30 minutes videos in February/March/April showing the overview/exploration, battle and doll/skells.

For the west release they showed those end of August, in October and in December I think.

The twitter account was providing also more diverse info and the website was also updated quite often with new info.

 

[Ishaan]

I thought this was made as a direct contrast to XBX, I thought people were upset the game basically had no story.

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This game was created with the intent to have a large role-playing game out within the Switch's first year, which was the primary directive. Given that they only had two years of development time, it makes sense that they would opt for a fairly straightforward single-player experience. (Given that X took them over three years to develop)

Here's a quote from Takahashi via TIME that explains it:

Tetsuya Takahashi: And so to add to that, both at Nintendo and at Monolith, we wanted to have a major large-scale roleplaying game early in the Switch's lifecycle. We thought about how we might accomplish that, and we wanted to do the same thing with the Wii U. But the development for Xenoblade Chronicles X was a little bit difficult, and that's why it ended up being released a little bit later in the Wii U's cycle. So we had a postmortem and tried to think 'How can we deliver this at an earlier stage in the console's lifecycle?'

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Frankly, the fact that they've managed to create a game of this scope within a two-year period is pretty impressive in itself.

 

[Ulairi]

Eh Shakesperean dialogue is pretty much the opposite of what I'm talking about, but sure take an extreme part of the spectrum.

Plenty of jrpgs look and sound like they are for people above the age of 12.

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What's wrong with a JRPG for kids in grammar school?

 

[wrowa]

It's receiving the amount of marketing I'd expect — it's simply not a game that's going to find a huge audience no matter what and the design decisions made for Xenoblade 2 don't seem to be compatible with the west; they even seem to be alienating a good chunk of its very own fanbase — so I don't have issues with that.

However, the kind of marketing it receives is ill-received. The reveal and E3 trailers weren't particularly good and failed to generate excitement. The times they've shown the game in detail at Treehouse Live and Gamescom Live they focused almost exclusively on showing very slowly paced battles. They apparently even increased the enemies' HP in order to "be able to present the battle system better": A horrible, horrible decision as the battle system isn't all that interesting and it only lead to the game looking slow and unfun. Then when the September Direct came around, we still didn't get a nice, short trailer showing the aspects of the world, but a long-winded mess that a) showed way too much of the world and its fractions and b) AGAIN showed the battle system in long-winded detail. Instead of making the game look appealing to the viewers, they created a segment that had a negative effect by overstaying its welcome.

Limited marketing for a game like this can work, but they seem to have no idea how to portray the game in an appealing way.

 

[Deleted member 9584]

I don't think their marketing has been abysmal but I think for now they've been focusing on pushing Skyrim. As weird as it sounds, it is waaaaaay more important that Skyrims succeeds compared to Xenoblade.

 

[Shunt]

Frankly, the fact that they've managed to create a game of this scope within a two-year period is pretty impressive in itself.

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Two-year period? The game has been in development for at least 3 years.

Given that they only had two years of development time, it makes sense that they would opt for a fairly straightforward single-player experience. (Given that X took them over three years to develop)

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X took longer to developer because it was Monolith Soft's first HD game.

 

[Stealth]

Xenoblade 2 is being promoted more than any other JRPG this year. That is just a fact. People are making giant stretches to bash on this game

 

[Ximonz]

This game was created with the intent to have a large role-playing game out within the Switch's first year, which was the primary directive. Given that they only had two years of development time, it makes sense that they would opt for a fairly straightforward single-player experience. (Given that X took them over three years to develop)

Here's a quote from Takahashi via TIME that explains it:



Frankly, the fact that they've managed to create a game of this scope within a two-year period is pretty impressive in itself.

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This game has been developed for 3 years, it started in the mid of XCX development.
and the first XC focused on single player experience with a clear storyline, of course XC2 is going to do the same.

 

[Stealth]

And why are people ignoring the positive hands on previews? As if that is not marketing? When IGN comes out with a positive preview, that is as much as any commercial in terms of gamer reach.

 

[Arkage]

I think 16 pages in, there's really not much worth discussing any more. The general consensus (not just here, but everywhere) is this:

• This game isn't really in line with any market trends in the West
• As a result of this, NOA/NOE are understandably hesitant to spend money marketing it
• However, they do understand it will find its dedicated niche, hence the Collector's Edition

• In Japan, the game is being positioned as a product that appeals to the high-presentation anime games market (Tales etc.)
• Part of the reason Xenoblade 2 exists is to help attract other such games/developers to Switch
  
• As a result of this, Japan's marketing largely focuses on character spotlights (the Blades)

• Monolith Soft have indicated on numerous occasions that their long-term interests lie in games with global appeal and player communication
• Xenoblade X was their first attempt at such a project. A second project along these lines is presently being developed

So ultimately, it is what it is--a game targeted at a specific niche, for a specific purpose, and not really indicative of Monolith Soft's long-term goals. Nor is it indicative of Nintendo's willingness to support Monolith Soft's games with strong marketing and promotion. MS's next Switch game will be more indicative of both.

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Not sure the how this conclusion follows from the premise. We don't know Monolith Soft's long-term goals other than continuing to make more Xeno-games, per their past, and maybe a new thing we have no idea about based on a concept art. Xenos have always been a high-presentation anime game, so not sure how that's relevant to how it's being marketed. The brand is already established. And considering how few games Monolith puts out, every game they make should be getting significant support if the studio wants to be in the black, though thankfully there's no indication Nintendo is the kind of company that would cut them off if they don't make money.

 

[KingSnake]

And why are people ignoring the positive hands on previews? As if that is not marketing? When IGN comes out with a positive preview, that is as much as any commercial in terms of gamer reach.

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Most previews for most of the games are positive. For a game to get bad previews it needs to be a big screw up.

Plus, it got what? 5 or 6 previews? Understandably so, being a rather niche game, but I wouldn't call that too much of a marketing.

 

[BGBW]

I thought with a new forum we'd stop seeing people use the word marketing in place of promoting.

The marketing aspect that displeases me is the price of the LE. It's a lot for barely anything. If the product came with more than just a waste of disc soundtrack sampler and an art book I'll barely look at I may be more interested, but going for the standard edition for me is an easy choice. The packaging is nice though.

 

[Jessie]

JRPG fans are a network. The game just has to be good and the fans will promote for you.

NieR Automata's marketing was largely grassroots.

 

[Ishaan]

Two-year period? The game has been in development for at least 3 years.

X took longer to developer because it was Monolith Soft's first HD game.

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Pre-production began during Xenoblade X, yeah. Active development began at the end of that game's development. (Which is the normal lifecycle for any project/team)

And X actually took longer to develop for a multitude of reasons:

• A custom engine had to be built for the game, and a bunch of R&D done to figure out seamless environments
• It took them over 1.5 years just to write the script primarily due to the amount of content/text in the game
• To put this in perspective, Xenoblade had 3,000 battle lines whereas X had 11,000 for battles alone
• They do a lot of R&D and experimentation to figure out the "scale" of the world, and how to balance it between on-foot travel and mech travel
• During development, the project was retooled to add a multiplayer element
• To this end, the main character and story needed to be altered, and an extensive character customization system created
• QA/testing obviously required a lot more time, given the character/armour customization and multiplayer features

Naturally, the fact that the assets were rendered at a higher resolution also comes into play, but in the grand scheme of things that was hardly the most difficult thing about developing Xenoblade X.

 

[Griz]

Its a non final fantasy JRPG, selling this to general public can only go so far

 

[KingSnake]

I thought with a new forum we'd stop seeing people use the word marketing in place of promoting.

The marketing aspect that displeases me is the price of the LE. It's a lot for barely anything. If the product came with more than just a waste of disc soundtrack sampler and an art book I'll barely look at I may be more interested, but going for the standard edition for me is an easy choice. The packaging is nice though.

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Using marketing is not inaccurate.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/marketing

marketing
NOUN
mass noun

• The action or business of promoting and selling products or services, including market research and advertising.

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Promoting is just a subset of marketing activities.

 

[Shunt]

It took them over 1.5 years just to write the script primarily due to the amount of content/text in the game

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I don't think this can be counted as a contributor to X's longer development. The script for X most likely began during the development of the first Xenoblade. It doesn't make much sense to wait until a project begins active development before you begin writing the script for it.

The rest of your post I agree with.

 

[BGBW]

Promoting is just a subset of marketing activities.

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That's what I was saying?

 

[KingSnake]

That's what I was saying?

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Yeah, but it's not wrong per se to use marketing instead of promoting.

 

[KingSnake]

JRPG fans are a network. The game just has to be good and the fans will promote for you.

NieR Automata's marketing was largely grassroots.

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Actually NieR Automata was shown pretty extensively including at E3 and PGW and got quite a number of live streams and interviews with Yoko Taro. I remember even a controversy about one of its commercials who was deemed to be too violent to be shown on TV or something.

 

[thebullfrog]

I dunno, I think the marketing has done a perfectly fine job thus far... of making me not want the game.

I was super hyped when the game was announced, but all of their boring, plodding, over tutorialized gameplay videos have completely changed my mind. It went from a guaranteed day-1, to a "wait and see" just based on their own advertising that make the game look like a chore to play.

 

[Griz]

In the previews so far they purposefully raised the health of enemies to demo the combat system. But I think it backfired and made the game look boring. Everyone is thinking it takes forever to kill anything

 

[Gotdatmoney]

They mostly have been focusing on the wrong things. Xenoblade games are about sprawling lands and vistas. No one gives a shit about fan service blades.

Just show scenery and it should be better. I think part of it too is thebgameplay they showed has super spongy enemies that should take half the time to kill. XCX already went way too far with enemy HP.

In the previews so far they purposefully raised the health of enemies to demo the combat system. But I think it backfired and made the game look boring. Everyone is thinking it takes forever to kill anything

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Stuff took forever to kill in XCX too. You needed to really abuse the shit outta a lot of systems to make it bearable.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Nintendo probably doesn't want to spend more money thinking it won't help sales.

It's probably why Monolith is making a new IP.

 

[byDoS]

I dunno, I think the marketing has done a perfectly fine job thus far... of making me not want the game.

I was super hyped when the game was announced, but all of their boring, plodding, over tutorialized gameplay videos have completely changed my mind. It went from a guaranteed day-1, to a "wait and see" just based on their own advertising that make the game look like a chore to play.

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This game really needs one incredible, blown up, cathartic trailer.

 

[ILikeFeet]

I don't think their marketing has been abysmal but I think for now they've been focusing on pushing Skyrim. As weird as it sounds, it is waaaaaay more important that Skyrims succeeds compared to Xenoblade.

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That doesn't sound weird at all. Monolith has the security of being first party; they'll always have work available. Skyrim needs to succeed because Nintendo needs to prove something to third parties, that those games can work without Nintendo funding their development

 

[kvetcha]

This game really needs one incredible, blown up, cathartic trailer.

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Pretty much.

It really seems like they're trying to avoid spoilers in every aspect of the game's promotion. Hopefully that speaks to an abundance of caution regarding the narrative rather than a lack of confidence.

 

[thebullfrog]

Pretty much.

It really seems like they're trying to avoid spoilers in every aspect of the game's promotion. Hopefully that speaks to an abundance of caution regarding the narrative rather than a lack of confidence.

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I think what it speaks to is being paranoid over some of the flack XX got. A pretty common complaint was how complex the game could be, especially combat which is fairly unique if you hadn't played the first game. So now they spend their Directs and media events showing you tutorials on all the convoluted systems hoping people will better understand how to play the game, but forgetting to show people why they should want to play the game.

 

[Deleted member 2791]

In the previews so far they purposefully raised the health of enemies to demo the combat system. But I think it backfired and made the game look boring. Everyone is thinking it takes forever to kill anything

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Eh. It's literally the only place I've seen that keep complaining about that, despite everyone knowing it is just for demo purposes. Like, it bothered none of the previewers, and they made a good job of explaining the combats. In the end, it was probably worth doing these little tricks, with how complex the battle system is.

 

[Garf02]

now I hope everyone shuts ups and put this thread to rest till after the Direct

 

[Slushimi]

JRPG fans are a network. The game just has to be good and the fans will promote for you.

NieR Automata's marketing was largely grassroots.

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I agree. Marketing this game would be fairly easy purely by showcasing the grand scale and variety of monster, but in the end it depends on if the game is good or not. I was hyping Xeno X like crazy because of the trailers and was following the Gamefaqs discussions religiously. After the reviews came and the complaints about the story, I ended up not getting the game. Even though it was the only reason I got my Wii U.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

now I hope everyone shuts ups and put this thread to rest till after the Direct

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wellthereitis.gif

 

[Jaded Alyx]

now I hope everyone shuts ups and put this thread to rest till after the Direct

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Thread said "so far". This doesn't change that.

 

[byDoS]

HELL YES

 

[Lunar15]

I think they're promoting it a fair bit, it's just being eclipsed by a lot of other games, such as Mario. They'll dedicate a decent portion of November hyping it up.

That said, it's a niche title. I enjoyed both XBC and XBX, but i'm really turned off by XB2 for some reason.