I've only done the low stance unlocks are they are pretty different
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Nioh 2 Closed Alpha - May 24 (or 22?)-June 2 (gameplay trailer inside)
- Thread starter SolidSnakex
- Start date
I think the health bar and stramina HUD is a bit intrusive as is. It should be more to the left of the screen and a bit smaller imo
That's a pretty reductive take on Sekiro's combat, no? That's like saying all there is to Nioh is... hitting stuff. :D
It's not a competition. Both do different things and there is space for them to coexist, but credit where credit is due, you know?
I've given it a lot of thought and the best way I think to explain this is "If I want to get better at the game, what techniques can I learn?"
Parrying in Sekiro is cool, what else can I do to be cooler? To show that I'm a cut above the average player? And the answer for Sekiro is "Parry harder!"
I didn't bother me when I was playing, but looking at the gif, I don't see why the couldn't move it over just a bit.
Sorry, what's that got to do with you reducing Sekiro's gameplay to "it's just parrying"?
Hell, you can even look at team ninja's old games. There are far bigger changes going from ninja gaiden 1 to ninja gaiden 2.
It is what is and I'm going still play the hell out of Nioh 2, but they probably should've called it Nioh: Yokai Shift and sold it as a stand alone expansion game like how wolfenstein and dishonoured does it.
exactly what i am thinking. this could have been a standalone addon or a big 35-40 bucks addon/DLC to the first game, instead they make a full price game out of it.
this is the kind of sequel which gets people torn into two opinions, when someone loved the first one you can sugarcoat it with "more of the same, which is good" but it leaves a certain taste when looking at the obvious fact that this is barely a complete "new" experience. it is Nioh refined with a few extras and new areas, enemies and bosses-exactly the stuff that could have been also a big addon/DLC or standalone expansion.
i don´t think i will grab this Day One, this is not enough to demand full price in my book and i don´t want to support "feeling like 1.5" sequels with full price payment.
Sigh okay.
Sekiro's combat involves sword melee combat, stealth takedowns, and the use of specialized tools as hard counters to certain enemy advantage, as well as the parry mechanic which serves as the main draw to the posture system and what everyone is focused on.
Now with that important detail out of the way, why I specifically target the parry system in this discussion is because it really is the main focus that has gotten everyone impressed with the game and is also why the detractors don't like it.
Sekiro as an action game doesn't encourage a lot of experimentation and doesn't really have any advance mechanics for players to take advantage off- What you see is what you get. Almost every boss encounter plays out the same way because of this. This is a problem because while action games have been doing fine without needing character builds, they almost definitely need some kind of mechanical depth to keep their players experimenting and improving.
Huh. I had a much easier time with the second boss than the first, but it seems like it was the opposite for many people. Snake boss seemed much easier to dodge and had safe windows to attack.
Those bolded examples would also have half the content of their main game.
Nioh 2 isn't going to be that situation. It's every bit a sequel as anything else. Not a big technical leap, and given how excellent the game's mechanics were the first time by there wasn't any major need for any sort of big shift.
Which is a perfectly reasonable statement. "Sekiro is just parrying" is not, which is what I'm taking issue with. One doesn't need to reductively summarise one game to emphasis a preference for another. It is disingenuous.
Guys if you guys enjoy spamming R1 so much, make a thread comparing Niohs and sekiros combat
I dont really mind it moving more on screen since i spend so much time looking at the ki bar...but its 2019 why is the UI not fully customisable.
Sekiro is just spamming R1 and pressing one of three buttons to perform a counter, M00000ving on.
Na not at all, they dont even have their own heavy attacks strings
This is hilarious, From have put out 5 games which borrow heavily from DeS and no one gave a shit, the double standard of this forum is something else.
Apparently Nioh 2 improving on the combat of the first game, having new enemies, new locations, gears, abilities, etc.. isn't eneough for a $60 game.
I mean it was in response to laughing off the notion that Niohs gameplay run circles around Nioh. From Softwares combat is simple systems, with good neutral play. A lot of the strat ends up being dodge the thing (in this case parry) and then get your swings in, rinse n repeat. Pure expression isn't much of an option.
Nioh allows you to get more saucy, while still having great neutral play. I'll agree there are smaller microdecisions not appreciated in FS games, and how they handle level design n enemy placement, but saying the base combat mechanics as "it's just parrying" isn't exactly a hot take.
I mean, if that's all there is to this I'm more than willing to completely agree to Sekiro's use of sword combat arts, stealth takedowns, and prosthetic tools in addition to the parrying mechanics.
But I feel like the more interesting discussion is WHY people feel that repetitiveness compared to something like Dark Souls which is arguably even less deep than Sekiro.
I'd say it speaks to the broader over praise some sequels have gotten over the years, like ass creed 2, uncharted 2, mass effect 2, Witcher 3.
Which yes are significant changes, but ignores that the previous games suck, like a lot. Not necessarily the case here with Nioh.
Beyond that, graphics. Too much value given to the superficial shit.
Have you been purifying the Yokai pools with your Ki Pulse?
Yokai Pool = Black swirling energy on the ground that reduces the rate of your stamina regen
Ki Pulse = Pressing R1 when the whitish bar fills up the red bar in your stamina gauge, will also dispel the yokai pools
Lots of new comers die to this because their Ki keep running out.
Ah interesting, maybe I don't need to worry after all.
He's right though. Spamming parry, and just one type of combat style will do that.
It's a weird thing, the same thing happened with Destiny 2 and The Division 2, sequels were never about changing the game completely.
Not everything has to be super in-depth to be good. I loved Sekiro just because of how intuitive and streamlined it was, especially compared to past From games.
Nioh, at the end of the day, is just a DS clone with a new coat of paint and some extra bells and whistles. This is coming from someone who enjoyed the hell out of both.
Maybe I just hate stamina management but the stances and ki-pulse mechanics, plus the repetitive enemies and locations made Ni-Oh a so-so affair to me while I was hooked on Sekiro all the way.
Can't speak to those, as I think those two are also wack lol.
But UC2 n 4 aren't exactly that different mechanics wise. You have a grappling hook that becomes pointless on crushing, and after that it's some basic fine tuning on the ballistics, which were average as fuck in 2, ruined in 3, and still okay in 4.
A lot of the biggest shifts was in how they handle encounter design in how open they got. Niohs equivalent of that is going to be more enemies, more boss types n shit like that.
The game needs more of a Mario Galaxy 2 type sequel. Tightening up, cutting out the fluff, and better presented challenges.
I haven't had to much trouble with the pools. One thing I noticed is the boss losses a lot of it's guard when he knocks the pillars down but I can't really find a consistent way to fully knock him down from that. I did with an arrow once but I'm out of arrows and feel I'm just not doing something right anyway. I'm pretty much just getting 2 hit counter attacks in and eventually get defeated.
Don't have the alpha but from watching the fight
Let the boss destroy the pillars in the fight this causes water to drop on him and cause the water element debuff,
Unless Nioh 2 removed it, If 2 different elemental debuffs are on an enemy at the same time it causes the discord effect which destroys the enemy ki, allows you to stagger them easily with hits while the debuff is active and you do extra damage.
When he enters that Yokai realm mode where horns are visible on your character the boss seems to always follow up activating the Yokai realm with the tornado, you can also hit him out of the tornado with for example the hatchet throws
What's frustrating is seeing your two best friend gaming buddies get invites who didn't even like the first game and already told me they weren't going to buy the second, while I who have been waiting for this get none! It's all good though. I'm just gonna keep checking my email and hope I get one before alpha ends!
It is what it is. Shit take or not, it's my opinion, boss. Throughout all of my Ni-Oh run, I did not feel it surprised me with new mechanics and situations. That's why , I kind of breezed through it. Besides two or three obvious bosses, it has pretty much been a "been there, done that" type of deal.
Hmm thanks didn't know I could knock hit out of the tornado, might have to change my weapons. As for staggering him maybe I just need to be more aggressive, idk haven't really be successful at all.
That "extra bells and whistles" is what makes all the difference.
How do you think people decide on what games have great combat?
The "Feeling" of a game is only the surface level, the good stuff comes from what you can do once you dig deeper and find all these possibilities that you can play with.
Lol you don't get to dunk on Nioh for having repetitive enemies and locations when Sekiro faces the exact same problem.
It's rubbish n reductive as hell. The game does plenty of things differently, that are pretty substantial and give it far more depth than anything the souls games and other souls likes have had going on.
By all means dislike it or be bored by it, those extra bells n whistles aren't some after thought.
The game allows for more aggressive play to the more skillful player, the player has more string options, 3 different types of dodges, more unique differences between its weapons because of the command moves weapons could have, yokai realm management.
It would be just as silly as considering Sekiro or Bloodborne as just another Dark Souls game.
Regarding the first part, let's just agree to disagree. This is going nowhere, I see the depth but it did nothing for me when, like I said, I breezed thru this game.
Regarding the enemy variety, it's not even close. I dare you to count every enemy and variation of each game and you'll see the difference.
With DLC, Nioh has about 30 something while Sekiro has over 50
Ok, fair enough, but at least Sekiro and BB force you to use their different flavours to succeed. Ni-Oh was more of the same for me. Used the same strats learned through the course of all the DS games I've finished and I managed more than fine.
The Ki regeneration is an amazing example of how to progressively increase the difficulty of a technique for better rewards.
At Skill Lvl 0 - Do nothing, your Ki would automatically regen
At Skill Lvl 1 - Press R1 (or dodge) at the right time to regen ki faster
At Skill Lvl 2 - Press R1 and switch stance to regen more Ki than what you've spent
At Skill Lvl 3 - Press R1 and switch stance twice to regen even more Ki than what you've spent
The more difficulty the technique, the better your reward, simple and brilliant
At Skill Lvl 0 - Do nothing, your Ki would automatically regen
At Skill Lvl 1 - Press R1 (or dodge) at the right time to regen ki faster
At Skill Lvl 2 - Press R1 and switch stance to regen more Ki than what you've spent
At Skill Lvl 3 - Press R1 and switch stance twice to regen even more Ki than what you've spent
The more difficulty the technique, the better your reward, simple and brilliant
That was pretty much all there was to it. :D
We don't need to misrepresent Sekiro to make the case that Nioh is deeper and offers more room for experimentation.
However, I'm not sure I agree with Sekiro being less 'deep' than Souls. I'd argue that there are more moment-to-moment combat options in Sekiro than Souls. That's not to disparage Souls; it offers a huge amount of customisation.
I think that's the issue: people generally expect more customisation options from Souls-like games (build variety is arguably the biggest criticism of Bloodborne too.). So I think it is less 'objectively' bad - for want of a better term - and more about expectations versus developer intention.
Also, that "sigh" earlier? Totally unnecessary.
I have been pretty much running a katana and odachi. Haven't really tried any other weapons yet to be honest.
Misconception about depth is not that they're necessary to complete the game, if they're necessary they would be basic mechanics not advance mechanics. Depth is there to allow players to do something different or more efficient at the cost of a harder technique to pull off, while still being optional.
Did you take into account a good portion of Sekiro's enemies are reskins? Not to mention the blatant reusing of mini bosses?
You misunderstood, Sekiro is definitely more deep than your standard Souls game, but Souls makes up for it with having a larger variety of toys to play with.
For the record I don't think the problem with Sekiro is the lack of builds like most people are saying, but FROM just never replaced the build variety with anything.
Nioh totally has you use it's different flavors lol, a more aggressive playstyle n long pressure strings are a viable play in Nioh unlike souls games.
A good chunk of yokai bosses force you to use ki pulse.
Otherwise souls games have had parry mechanics for years, and it has been the most ignorable shit in those games when it's fundamentally useless against a good chunk of the bosses.
Enemy take is valid, it has like 29-36 enemies depending on how you count enemies in the base game, and that's about on par with Demons souls, so not exactly a flattering comparison.
Nope. Gameplay means more then combat.
Does Nioh's combat runs circles around Sekiro? Well yeah. But that doesn't mean Sekiro's combat is bad or average.
Does Nioh's gameplay runs circles around Sekiro? Not even close.
There's more to these games then combat.
Boss fights, level design, enemy design, encounter design, world design, etc. Sekiro shits on Nioh on pretty much everything that isn't the combat.
Did you unlock the combo finishing kick for the Katana mid stance? This deals a lot of ki damage and you can end the combo after a single quick attack already. After the boss "devil triggers" your main goal should be to reduce the enemies ki as fast as possible as the moment it reaches 0 he will fall down and transition to his normal moveset again. Another thing that helped me when I was just starting out was to use the Ippon Datara skill you get as part of the tutorial, as if you hit the boss perfectly it deals about 30% of his ki as damage and costs none of your own. During his DT phase I kicked him down to 30% and then just dodged safely until my ki was almost full, then I hit im with the skill and due to his ki being fully depleted I could then combo him easily as he was staggered.
Yeah no, people keep saying that like it's a given but I've played both and they're about even in those aspects. At least in the aspects that can be directly compared.
I think this would have been fine. Sold it for 40 bucks or whatever. Still gonna buy it full price though cause im a sucker
As shocking as it may seem, it is possible to like both Nioh and Sekiro, and appreciate them for what they are. You guys should try it some time.
you can lure the boss to the pillar, when he hit it, it will fall on him
But it is a given.
Sekiro having better level design, world design ( which isn't even existant in Nioh), encounter design and enemy variety (!) are pretty much objective things. Just like Nioh having better combat then Sekiro is one.
It's pretty funny to me that you couldn't do splits and caliburs when DMC5 was out and now you're talking trying to school other people on this thread in combat depth on other games.