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MidweekCoyote

Member
Mar 23, 2018
863
Now that we have finally reached a point where most discussion about the game has decisively shifted, I feel like we also need a "sit-down and get real" topic for the present and the future of No Man's Sky. The praise for overdelivering with every update is well deserved and their Minecraft-like "buy once, free updates forever" policy is a full-on jackpot.

What I want to do is put aside the "rags to riches" and "biggest comeback" stories to rest for a moment and focus on constructive criticism and discussion as to what is needed to make the game not just good or serviceable, but also great. These issues are largely overshadowed by the aforementioned praises and many times excused because Hello Games is an extremely small team.

I would say they are also a small team that proved they CAN. The number of features included and their admirable patching schedule point to a capable and passionate group of people. Because of this, we should be 100% comfortable in being stricter after these 3 years in order to push for the biggest possible quality in a title we own and/or love. Thus, I wanted to make a topic to present both the technical and design issues we expect to realistically be resolved (without the procedural cities, giant worms nonsense). I will start with the following:

1. MORE VISUAL VARIETY AND BETTER EXPLORATION: The biggest problem for me personally is the lack of a bigger variety of assets to procedurally generate and the same-ness of a lot of biomes (hot and winter ones in particular). Exploration is supposed to be one of the biggest draws to the game. I don't like the feeling of scanning for a planet, seeing it's "cold" and knowing pretty exactly what it will look like, what trees it will have, etc.​
Atlas Rises introduced some cool new freaky planet types which was completely different to what we have seen before (including the awesome color-grading "glitch"). but aside from Abyss, no others went that same distance (even though Abyss and Visions did do good).​
We need MORE color variety. MORE assets to put around. MORE freaky, sci-fi stuff to uncover. MORE substantially different biome types. A LOT MORE fauna/horror types. MORE than one look of a building (for example, different looking trading posts). MORE surprises in every corner and on every planet. A game this big shouldn't have the "I've been here before" feeling as much as it does. Even something simple as repurposing existing assets can go a long way. Like, taking the hot planet cactus, allowing to change color to blue and have it uncommonly spawn on a cold planet would do a lot of good for that "huh! that's interesting" feeling. Or imagine if you met and fought horrors on an abandoned space station as a rare find.​
In other words, WE NEED A BIG-ASS EXPLORATION BASED VISUAL UPDATE.
2. TECHNICAL STUFF (non-VR): Pop-in, load lag, orbital clouds being visible through the freighter/Nexus, uploaded discoveries not registering or being overwritten, Freighters sometimes changing colors in different systems, etc. Long term issues such as these need to be decisively addressed.​
3. MENUS, MONEY, INVENTORY AND HUD: Giving us more inventory space and inventory QoL features is great, but the inventory system itself needs a massive overhaul to not be a pain.We STILL cannot enter the exact buy/sell amount in terminals. The amount of units, nanites or items received for doing quests many times isn't worth the effort given their length/complexity (Nexus ones in particular).​
A MAPPING SYSTEM is also non-existent. You can rename and upload landmarks, but cannot hotlist them in the discovery menu for easy travel.​
Old valuables such as Vortex Cubes, Sac Venoms and the like are listed as top tier rarities, but are worthless compared to things like bones or indium. Even scanning with a few upgrades is a bigger money hoard (and the upgrades aren't hard to get).​
4. THE STORY: It is decent and well written, but the implementation within the game itself needs work. A lot of people don't even know it's there. Some even said "the game is just sandbox, no story" because the main quest isn't as focused as it could be, which is a shame because there are some awe-inspiring moments (like portalling for the first time).​
The game also had a very good ARG called Waking Titan which explained a lot of the game's lore and setting, but the same plot is only marginally important in the game itself. I want to see the Emily, loop-16, Atlas Corporation, WARE etc. stuff matter more in-universe. I want it to "wow" me a bit more with these twists instead of just focusing on the feeling of existential pessimism.​
After watching BurkeBlack play through the Artemis/Main Quest scenario with his voice gadgets, I am also convinced that voice acting for Traveller/Atlas interactions would do the story a great service, along with a bit of a tweak in the story progression itself.​

//////////////

Day 1 PS4 player, over 600+ hours recorded in various game modes.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,967
Also as long as Sentinels and other hostiles exist, a better combat system. I would prefer them gone entirely, but eh, it's not happening. But I absolutely hate the combat system as it is right now.
 

Izzard

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
4,606
It's already a great game...and it was a success from launch.

Anywho, as with just about every game out there, it can improve. I'd like an increase in variation of planets, new ship designs. It's all about getting in your ship and exploring so adding to those two things should be priority imo.

I think they should also do more and smaller when it comes to updates. Last one could've been divided up, to lessen the impact on bugs, etc.
 
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
The clunky inventory management and the fact that sentinels are on every planet (and are chore to avoid / fight, and being unable to escape them in your spaceship was laughable) were the biggest fun vampires back when I tried to get into the game last time.
 

Seiniyta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
522
The clunky inventory management and the fact that sentinels are on every planet (and are chore to avoid / fight, and being unable to escape them in your spaceship was laughable) back when I tried to get into the game last time.

They fixed that in Beyond. They reduced the amount of Sentinels greatly in normal mode and don't bug you as often. in my new 20 hour save file I probably have been on one planets where they bugged me but the game now also indicates if a planet is a high sentinel activity planet. There's even planets now where not a single sentinel will spawn.

And the resource stack has been increased from 250 to 9999 per stack.
 
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MidweekCoyote

MidweekCoyote

Member
Mar 23, 2018
863
Also as long as Sentinels and other hostiles exist, a better combat system. I would prefer them gone entirely, but eh, it's not happening. But I absolutely hate the combat system as it is right now.

Correct! I haven't touched upon this much, really. I would argue, however, that space combat needs a lot more work than ground combat (which I feel definitely improved). While the game isn't primarily a dogfighting game like EverSpace or the new Rebel Galaxy, it's a bit problematic when you can pretty much beat enemy ships by NOT MOVING and just shoot and recharge. Rarely is there any real strategy or urgency involved.
 

MILKGOLOLBAD

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 5, 2019
84
I'd love more variety, yep.
I must say though, this game is just such a massive turn around, I can't honestly believe how much I'm enjoying it after having it in my Top 3 Worst Game Purchases list for years.
 

Nugnip

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,744
Hello Games is a small team handling a huge game, and it shows. However, I can't believe how much fun I'm having with No Man's Sky right now. The game is great, even though the ways it could be even better are very obvious.
 

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,956
Tbilisi, Georgia
Hearing how this game has transformed has been amazing.

The best redemption story in gaming. Shame such stories are less interesting to gamers at large. We strive on negativity and CrowbCat videos.
 

Ojli

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,652
Sweden
Question about "late game" stuff now that multiplayer seems to be a thing.

Do anyone fly into the center of the galaxy still? If so, do you go multiple times or just once to get a paradise-universe?

EDIT: Can add that I played a lot at launch. Got a full refund from GOG when the multiplayer patch wasn't available on that platform more than a year later. So I tried out that expansion for a few hours before returning it and thus didn't have time to jump away from the local system.
 
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Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
this seems like a bizzare distinction that no one else is making except you, and is completely divorced from the reality of the situation.

"they put more stuff in the game, but now they need to make the game actually good by instead putting more stuff in the game"

i've noticed more and more this weird tone people have when talking about devs. "you've shown you can do it if you try" and the like. It's as if you're speaking from the position of a mentor who knows everything there is to know about games. which is clearly not the case.
 

708

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358
I really really agree with your first point. I'm glad for people who're enjoying Beyond, but it had nothing for me. I don't play online, I don't have a VR, and have little interest in the game's base-building aspect. I mostly play for exploration.
Also, quoting myself from the OT:
I wish NMS would steal Factorio's crafting system. In Factorio, if I want to craft X and X requires A, B, and C, the game would craft those 3 automatically, provided I have the necessary ingredients. In NMS (and almost every other game) you have to craft each item separately first. It's such a huge QOL improvement I didn't know I needed 'til l played Factorio. Having to craft each item separately becomes really tedious after a bit.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,048
You've put over 600 hours into it already. By what definition is that not a great game?!

I'm all for people having an opinion on how to improve a game but this weird kind of "Here's what the developers with years and years of experience need to do" mentality that some gamers have just baffles me.
 
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MidweekCoyote

MidweekCoyote

Member
Mar 23, 2018
863
this seems like a bizzare distinction that no one else is making except you, and is completely divorced from the reality of the situation.

"they put more stuff in the game, but now they need to make the game actually good by instead putting more stuff in the game"

i've noticed more and more this weird tone people have when talking about devs. "you've shown you can do it if you try" and the like. It's as if you're speaking from the position of a mentor who knows everything there is to know about games. which is clearly not the case.

Nowhere have I stated or pretended to know more about the game or the game development process. Nor have I approached the devs as condescendigly as you state.

I am creating a topic like this precisely BECAUSE I am a long-term fan of the game, BECAUSE I admire what this studio has done. I feel it is a lot more helpful to take the conversation into pointing out issues/flaws, rather than simply be a part of a non-productive, positivity echo-chamber. Both the fans and HG want the game to grow further and I wanted to take the conversation in that direction on a public, popular platform. And I wouldn't be doing that if they haven't proven themselves capable or willing to take suggestions or criticism on-board. Their zendesk and patches are proof of that.

You've put over 600 hours into it already. By what definition is that not a great game?!

I'm all for people having an opinion on how to improve a game but this weird kind of "Here's what the developers with years and years of experience need to do" mentality that some gamers have just baffles me.

In case it isn't obvious, I will repeat that I am a HUGE fan of this game. The hours I put in and my involvement with discussions about the game on multiple message boards show that. That does not mean I cannot objectively take a step back and acknowledge how a lot of the small negatives (especially from a technical standpoint) hold the game back from achieving its full potential. The issues that I often forgive, tolerate and am used to by this point are not so easily dismissed by new or returning players of the game. Those players may not care how big HG is or appreciate how difficult procedural generation of this scale is. They just want a stable, working and polished product.
 
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Rosol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,397
Being a 200+ Hour day 1 nms player I do agree with the variety thing, everyone gets that feeling after a certain point. I do also remember when vortex cubes and venom sacs were valuable it did make you want to explore more to find that perfect planet for riches.

My fear is though they're probably hitting console limitations or something like that- it can't be easy to tweak an extremely complex procedural generation engine like they're using. I hope for a sequel on next gen platforms - though I know the devs have been working on the game for ages. If they can add to what they have that's be great but I'm not holding out hope for it.
 

Jasper

Member
Mar 21, 2018
740
Netherlands
I'm waiting for the next-gen sequel.

I'm totally with you that the game needs more exploration-focused improvements. I want rivers and waterfalls. I want more spectacular mountains. I want more types of crazy plant life. I want more anomalies in space.

I'm personally sad they went away from a focus on exploration towards adding stuff for people who want to play multiplayer. Building bases and such just goes against the original core idea of the game.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,133
this seems like a bizzare distinction that no one else is making except you, and is completely divorced from the reality of the situation.
Seems like a thread made to fit a title honestly. Game is already great imo. They can make it better and they plan to, as they have been doing. Frequency and scale of free updates are great and I'm sure Hello Games are more than aware of what the community wants, what it's prioritised and what it still plans to make.

I'd be massively surprised if most of the things in the OP aren't already in HG's backlog. It's stuff that's been requested and discussed repeatedly since launch (and has been improved upon alongside the major new additions even if it's not the focus).
 
Feb 1, 2018
5,241
Europe
I agree with OP.

I like the game, but TBH Minecraft generates much more interesting "planets" than NMS. I can play it in small bursts... MC I can play forever.
 

Catsygreen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,362
After Beyond, I still wonder if they won't slow down the pace. After all, they cannot rely entirely on NMS. They will have to diversify, or even start the pre-production (if not already done) of NMS2 for the next gen.

Clearly they're limited and can add assets here and there but the demand of some players will take years to implement. You will tell me that the economic model is viable, but HG will not be able to remain a small company forever, they'll have to grow.
 

Ausroachman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,392
Probably my favourite game this gen , but I would still love to see some improvements.

- more variety of land objects , give me an alien looking crashed ship to explore

- more combat , give the universe a global threat like the empire , have you randomly stumble on them on planets too , give you something to fight other then sentinels . Have random massive fleet battles appear when empires enter the system . Have a Rebel like faction you can join (or join the empire ).

- Give things like whispering eggs more of a reason to collect , right now I tend to ignore them as they aren't worth a lot and fighting bugs every time you collect one seems time consuming . Maybe if not every planet with eggs spawned aliens when you collected them .

- although I can buy fleets I would love to also recruit wingmen and build up attack fleets . When they die they are gone forever .

Probably plenty more but these are just off the top of my head . But yes more randomness would be fantastic .
 

Deleted member 29464

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,121
I agree with all your suggestions and that is why, despite appreciating how much work was and is being put into Beyond, I dropped the game because as a single player it felt all too similar.

One thing I would love would be vastly different planet generation in the other galaxies, give me a reason to want to leave everything behind and explore a new galaxy.

I would also love dual, tri, and multi planet biomes along with the much better variation.

Love the game but I definitely feel like I've seen it all and that now it's just a bit of a grind to get back to where I was in previous updates.
 

Blackthorn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,317
London
Agreed on a biomes and flora/fauna update, it's all that's left that really bothers me (now that I've accepted the planetary rotation is never coming).

Imagine if planets had poles and the biomes would gradually shift from one to the other, you'd get some really cool in-between areas and it would make exploring each planet feel much more worthwhile. Currently, my incentive is to planet hop because you've seen most of what there is to see within half an hour of landing – though the addition of landmasses and oceans did improve this a bit.
 

TheMink

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,909
Connecticut
this seems like a bizzare distinction that no one else is making except you, and is completely divorced from the reality of the situation.

"they put more stuff in the game, but now they need to make the game actually good by instead putting more stuff in the game"

i've noticed more and more this weird tone people have when talking about devs. "you've shown you can do it if you try" and the like. It's as if you're speaking from the position of a mentor who knows everything there is to know about games. which is clearly not the case.

The OP does not seem to have this tone, if anything these criticisms are from a "I love this game and these changes would make it even better" angle.
 

c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,206
Technical issues aside, it's just the uninspiring missions and that they're used as an artificial barrier for unlocking things that I really don't like. Even before release that's not what I wanted nor expected this "sandbox" to have. I want it to be like Minecraft where I am completely left to my own devices. Just give me the sandbox and its features to discover at my own leisure. Don't bother me with distracting mission notifications or other hand-holding nonsense. I don't need that carrot on a stick to lead me, my own initiative is more powerful than whatever the game thinks I should be doing.

Regardless, just thinking about where it started back in 2016 and what has been added in the years since, if Hello keeps going as they have been I think the game has an exciting future ahead of it. Beyond is a fantastic update. The changes to inventory limits and other QoL tweaks is a big plus and I love that the universe feels a bit more alive now that NPCs can roam (albeit just a little). I hope they evolve the latter even further.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,138
Somewhere South
One big thing about the procedural generation of the game is that it needs to be spikier. It needs to have a mostly smooth and gradual distribution of things like it is now, but with very defined and specific spikes. And then set up a bunch of stuff around those spikes, making them have some meaning, like they're deliberate. Make the spikes systemic. The human brain is tuned to watch and notice the discrepancies, the discontinuities, the incongruences and attach meaning to them.

For instance: cold planet, mostly negative temperatures, most of the existing flora and fauna range from a cold green to a blue color palette. Except one plant that is orange. The orange plant is carnivorous, or the orange plant is an expensive resource, or the orange plant attracts the fauna. Or some combination of those things. Maybe make being orange in that planet be a meaningful thing, so if you make your base orange, you see yourself being swarmed local fauna.

Another planet is mostly desert, but the spike is floating islands. The floating islands are the only place you find minerals. Or the floating islands are the only place you find water, or ruins, flora, trading posts, etc. One or a combination of those things. Another desert planet might not have floating islands, but might have caves and ravines and, again, be the only places where you find minerals/water/ruins/flora/etc.

Same thing for procgen ships, tools, everything.
 

Beatle

Member
Dec 4, 2017
1,123
To me it seems like a popular game (a lot of people own it including me) that no one actually plays
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
Ohhhh, is this a "the game isn't the way *I* want it, so it's not great" thread?

It's already a great game built and changed for the community that loves it. You have valid points that you may find unpleasant, but I think the life of the game is a testament to it's quality to the people that enjoy it. If the criticisms you had were things everyone wanted, they'd be in the game at this very moment.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
It was a great game day 1. I played for 30 hours and I'll never forget it. That said after 30 hours it was clear I had seen the full loop. To play for a long time it needs more reasons to care. So far all the expansions have been nice but they don't strongly impact the loop for me. It's still just a sandbox with pre build structure options.

I hope next gen they do a full sequel. Take everything from the first game and expand it. Do way more verticality and flora detail. Implement advanced creature and NPC AI. Do a full ecological food chain complete with hunting and creature fights. Water and liquid physics. I want cave waterfalls that I can manipulate. I want real fleet battles that are not scripted but fully realized and results impact the universe. I want ship interiors and multi man ships like Star Citizen.
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
I never hated No Man's Sky, but the vanilla version was definitely disappointing. However, it has turned into one of my favorite games this generation now. So glad the team was able to turn it around.
 

adumb

Banned
Aug 17, 2019
548
I'm so impressed with what they've done with it, but I just can't make it stick. Crafting, base building and resource management are not on my fun list, unfortunately. The multiplayer stuff is vaguely interesting to me, but hell will freeze over before I pay for PS Plus again.

At least the focus seems to have shifted in a direction that most people want.
 

jimtothehum

Member
Mar 23, 2018
1,491
Your first point is the biggest one for me. When I first envisioned what playing No Man's Sky would be like, I expected finding strange new worlds and seeking out new life and new civilizations...well, civilizations is pushing it, but I just wanted a taste of that one man Star Trek life. There just isn't enough variety to the planets, and there needs to be more potential "wow" moments when you do arrive at a planet.
 

Diggeh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
656
I haven't played since my PS4 copy kept endlessly crashing every few hours amongst other bugs and glitches. Are there still any major issues like that after all these big content updates? Tempted to get it on PC during a sale.