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Nobody Believed Neil deGrasse Tyson's First Accuser. Now There Are Three More. | A new woman speaks out about inappropriate behaviour for the article
- Thread starter berzeli
- Start date
Lock him up? For being innapropriate? Holy shit get some fucking perspective.
Theres only one allegation against him that might deserve that kind of response. Everything else sounds unprofessional and innapropriate but god damn, not criminal.
And no, i really dont believe he raped that woman, and none of the allegations of being possibly innapropriate collaborate a rape allegation.
I believe that 100%. He defintely has boundary issues and needs to be told so. Jeebus you dont just grab a woman and start pulling her shirt up o. Stage without asking her to show it if she wants to....
Argh... im starting to change my mind...
I'm not "rushing out" to do anything of the sort. Quite the opposite, in fact; I am against rushing to any conclusion. For my part, I examined Amet's story alongside those of the three women who spoke out afterwards and find theirs significantly more credible. It's fine to do the same and reach a different conclusion. The point I'm trying to make is that a blanket "believe every woman, every time" stance is incredibly naive. We should spend at least some time actually thinking.
That's disgraceful, he's doing that shit on camera and acting like it's no big deal. As I said in the other thread, this is a man who thinks it's fine to abuse his position and fame. His apology made that abundantly clear, and his apologists are cool with it because more than likely they'd think it was OK if they were in the position of power too.
He seems like a shitty person, and it certainly would appear that he has done some very shitty things.
You can believe the women and still think. Neither one somehow negates the other.
Why do you believe that he didn't rape her? Why is your first reaction when coming into a thread about accusations to immediately cast doubt on the accuser?
A lot of smoke usually means fire. I think we can say he has a problem behaving himself around women.
This is some baaaaad form. Her body language said don't, he still did it, she couldn't do anything because of the forum. Gross.
Thinking about what actually? Like I said think all you want but at the end of the day you weren't there when the incident happened, there is no video recording of it or video proof that Tyson wasn't present at that place around the time the incident occurred so I don't see how you could jump to the conclusion that it didn't happen.
The only thing you're basing this on is the fact that the victim doesn't seem credible to you. What thinking is involved there? Its just a gut feeling.
I really don't know how anyone can say with certainty that a woman wasn't raped in ANY situation that they weren't present for nor that there is evidence to the contrary. All your thinking just comes down to a gut feeling of "I believe that this man wouldn't rape someone"
I've said this before but just because a woman isn't the "perfect victim", i.e has a clean bill of mental health and communicates her thoughts and feelings in a way that we deem "rational" and "clear", that doesn't make her a liar.
At best if you can't bring yourself to "believe her", you could at least take a neutral stance instead of thinly veiled insults about "Actually thinking" when we all know what the implication there is. For anyone who doesn't get the implication here it is, you called believe women all the time incredibly naive then turn around and say spend time actually thinking. The implication being is that if we spend the time to actually think (whatever that means) we would reach the conclusion that this woman and by extension other women are lying when they say that they have been raped.
There is clearly a pattern of misconduct and unprofessionalism being established here, regardless of the findings of the investigation, and Tyson has done nothing to assuage doubt concerning these issues specifically (not talking about the rape allegation, but the other ones).
If there are more women who have been treated similarly (and there likely are), then I hope they come forward as well, as difficult as that might be for them. This has to stop.
If there are more women who have been treated similarly (and there likely are), then I hope they come forward as well, as difficult as that might be for them. This has to stop.
Yeah, it especially stings because there's the one episode of COSMOS where he talks about being helped by Sagan and meeting him the cold snow and he turns around and does THAT.
At the very least his behaviour has clearly made women feel extremely uncomfortable, at the worst he's raped a person.
Let's say the rape allegation is false, it would be extremely wishful thinking to believe with this many testimonies that he's at the "innocent" end of the scale.
But, with all these allegations, why give the benefit of the doubt?
At the least he needs to acknowledge his behaviours as inappropriate, not make excuses for them, and make amends. If the harsher allegations are true then he needs to do time.
Either way, I can't see him being innocent here. Far too much smoke.
Let's say the rape allegation is false, it would be extremely wishful thinking to believe with this many testimonies that he's at the "innocent" end of the scale.
But, with all these allegations, why give the benefit of the doubt?
At the least he needs to acknowledge his behaviours as inappropriate, not make excuses for them, and make amends. If the harsher allegations are true then he needs to do time.
Either way, I can't see him being innocent here. Far too much smoke.
He literally said "I really don't believe he raped that woman." That's not saying we don't know, that is straight up saying which side he believes is right. The issue with innocent until proven guilty when it comes to cases like this, is that he will never go to trial for any of this. Even in the case where there was definitive proof like a video tape, it's far outside the statute of limitations. In general, our court systems are not good at really prosecuting people in rape cases:
The way that people always instantly cast doubt on the victim because they don't want to believe that their friends, their family, or their idols are capable of doing things like this contributes to the low report statistics as well as the way that victims are treated by the court systems as well as the police.
This doesn't mean that we should instantly say that everyone accused is guilty, although false accusation rates are incredibly low at 2 - 8% for this kind of thing. But, there's a reason that these women feel they have to come forward through a twitter hashtag or through social media at all in the first place. Our society has a large issue with believing victims, or even giving them a fair chance, and when we instantly jump towards discrediting victims who are speaking up that has far reaching consequences to any victims who are reading through comments like that whether here or on Twitter or anywhere else.
Little confused by the title. Didn't Fox and NatGeo say they were opening an investigation after the last accusation? That sounds like people believed them then. Considering how recent that work related incident was and how her story basically says she told people she left due to his behavior, I assumed the truth would come out pretty quick. Always good to have more people speaking up though.
I don't think he's done anything terrible. He just has a habit of talking out of his ass when it comes to things outside of his expertise.
Rape allegations are difficult to prove, even when they are made at a time much closer to the alleged rape. Whether these are true or not, I hope she's able to find peace, because unfortunately justice probably won't be obtainable unless there are many more victims that come out. Her story is heartbreaking if true.
Regarding Tyson's other inappropriate behavior, I'm pretty devastated by it. Thinking back on how I've seen him interact with people in interviews and on panels it should probably have been obvious, but I must have not caught it because I was more interested in the topic of conversation instead of the human interaction. Lesson learned I guess. Here's hoping Neil will see consequences and learn something from this. Also, his wife should be pissed. What a sleaze.
Regarding Tyson's other inappropriate behavior, I'm pretty devastated by it. Thinking back on how I've seen him interact with people in interviews and on panels it should probably have been obvious, but I must have not caught it because I was more interested in the topic of conversation instead of the human interaction. Lesson learned I guess. Here's hoping Neil will see consequences and learn something from this. Also, his wife should be pissed. What a sleaze.
Sadly, there is probably a book's worth you could fit in that quote if you wanted to.
When you say "Believe women, no matter what" you are removing the requirement to analyze the situation because your mind is already made up: she said he did it, so it must be true.
The article says he was making sexual jokes and propositioning her to go to his office, a place where he would hold significant power over her. That's sexual harassment. Especially as this thread has already amply demonstrated that this man has no respect for a woman's boundaries, physical or otherwise.
Making a woman feel uncomfortable and degraded to the point where she has to ask her employers not to work with this man in the future so she doesn't have to face him again doesn't fall neatly into the category of "just hitting on a taken woman." This is not the kind of behavior that should just be brushed off.
Right, but that office had no effect on her.
I mean, she didn't work with him, right?
How is it different from someone saying "let's go to my place"?
Granted, she must have felt extremely uncomfortable and that speaks about the character, but it was not a power move?
I'm just checking for posterity, but do you believe he didn't rape her?
You can't see a difference between asking a woman back to your place after she's demonstrated that she's interested in and receptive to your advances and drunkenly making crude, sexual jokes and trying to get her into your office at a holiday party? She was an outsider at this party, he was drunk and invading her space, he was saying things that made her so uncomfortable she never wanted to see him again. It's absolutely a power move for a man to put a woman in a situation like that.
Not everything has to be a power move. Christ you people will look for any opening to say "yeah but it wasn't THAT bad". If he works with this woman and is making passing attempts at her that is just inappropriate behavior. She has EVERY right to go to her HR department and report it. We're trained all the time on not doing that very thing IN the office and even outside the office when at events with co-workers.
They all did the same thing with CK and Aziz too. "Just sounds like bad behavior, whats wrong with it" hand waving
It's "believe women and let them talk". Every time you come off with these "Wellll I hear you but lets look at the stories" you're telling women their stories don't hold weight. Period.
I am not watching a 30 minute Larry king interview to understand what you meant.
Sorry that you had to be subjected to that 😔. This also doesn't shock or surprise me.
Yup.
I'm of the mindset that I will believe the woman unless she admits to making it up or evidence shows that she is. I can change my belief when new evidence comes to light. They are malleable, not fixed. It's more "I believe her. It's most likely true." Casting doubt on every woman coming forward makes it harder for women to come forward so believing them when they need people to stand by them is the best thing to do. At least, that's how I think.
You can believe women and still analyze the situation. It's not an either/or scenario.
all tv personality neil degrasse tyson does is say profound sounding nonsense. take this whopper from his recently uploaded colbert interview
"if you have a big enough sample size, rare things become common" like wtf kind of scientist says that