1. args

    args
    Member

    damn this thread reads like the_donald in reverse. straight conspiracy theories. fuck trump, but if he helped make this happen, then mad props to him.
     
  2. Jombie

    Jombie
    Member

    There’s something going on behind the scenes or China is secretly pressuring them. This reeks of desperation and not a genuine attempt at diplomacy.
     
  3. Culex

    Culex
    Member

    No more tests, only the real thing from now on!
     
  4. kbear

    kbear
    Banned Member

    Why do you keep citing peace treaties of North Korea and the U.S.?
     
  5. Ravensmash

    Ravensmash
    Member

    It's fucking odd.
     
  6. Eatin' Olives

    Eatin' Olives
    Member

    How did he make this happen? Use a reason other than "because Moon said so".
     
  7. pestul

    pestul
    Member

    True. I hope both happen because world peace is awesome.. but crooks still need to serve time.
     
  8. Ravensmash

    Ravensmash
    Member

    Because he's taken a far harder stance rhetoric wise than the previous administration.

    This guy was threatening military action via twitter.

    He also comes across as far more unpredictable than prior generations.

    I'm not saying he's a bastion of world peace, but I don't know it anyone could honeslty say they weren't surprised at how this has gone recently.

    Maybe, just maybe, it's worked!
     
  9. Chindogg

    Chindogg
    Member

  10. Because finding articles from the past is difficult with all the new articles about NK popping up routinely. The point is, these proposals have been on the table before.
     
  11. Phonomezer

    Phonomezer
    Member

    LOL, ok.

    Fuck, remember the last time the international community took North Korea seriously?

    Bye.
     
  12. Fox Mulder

    Fox Mulder
    Member

    • User warned: Using inappropriate slurs.
    No one threatened to nuke them before.

    Maybe China spanked him or their nuke program collapsed as icbm testing is expensive. Whatever the reason, it makes it hard for the US to do a strike with all these NK concessions towards peace.

    If would be great if all it took for North Korean peace was a retard US president threatening to nuke them.
     
  13. kbear

    kbear
    Banned Member

    Are you purposely being dense here or did you think no one would click your links? Peace treaties between NK and the U.S. flopping, like the ones you linked, are not equivalent to NK and SK officially ending their six decade long war. The latter is of far more importance . That's why you can't find relevant links -- it's unprecedented and hasn't been offered before.
     
  14. Eatin' Olives

    Eatin' Olives
    Member

    I remain unconvinced. There's no real through line to this.

    1. KJU threatens nuclear action
    2. Trump goes apeshit
    ???
    4. KJU is willing to talk.

    The "???" is where I'm getting at. While everyone simply says "look Trump acted like a maniac and that seems to have magically changed KJU's entire stance!", there's very little analysis into how this is actually being put together. KJU didn't literally wake up one day thinking "you know maybe this entire thing that my father was doing and I was doing isn't really the way to go, let's just do a 180".

    It is mostly unexplained. For seemingly a lot of people, that's just a pesky detail that we not need to be bothered with. For myself, that's kind of a big "detail" to just gloss over.

    And that was an extremely terrible move on Trump's part to put Pompeo on a plane to conduct Secretary of State duties while not being Secretary of State. If anything it should give you LESS confidence that this will go over well.

    "Somehow" is just not good enough for me, not for something that is this tectonic. Too many "ifs", too many handwavy explanations, too much shrugging, too much "dunno how this is gonna work but if it works then great!" That's not how you successfully negotiate something this monumental and delicate.
     
  15. Ravensmash

    Ravensmash
    Member

    It doesn't seem that unexplained to me. They've had decades of sabre rattling and now someone has seemingly called their bluff.

    I'm not going to be overly naive and say its all down to that (I'm sure there are other pressures) but Trump's posturing has gone beyond previous statements.
     
  16. Chindogg

    Chindogg
    Member

    I'm not disagreeing with you here, but honestly we're just a couple of schmucks on a forum trying to figure out international diplomacy for an exceptionally delicate matter.

    At this point I'd be amazed if this all went off without it being a colossal disaster, but if it does credit has to be given where credit is due. Even if it's due to a living cartoon character.
     
  17. Hero of the Wild

    Hero of the Wild
    Banned Member

    If it happens then hooray everyone. The meltdowns that will happen/already happening if trump get credit will be hilarious aswell so there is that.

    If it happens at all...
     
  18. Magwik

    Magwik
    Member

    Props to him for being a crazy mentally unstable piece of human feces, and so awful and crazy that he scares Kim? Yeah wow, that's our leader!!
     
  19. Polaroid_64

    Polaroid_64
    Member

    I wonder what the fuck is happening behind the curtain.
     
  20. Are you fucking dense? The articles clearly state they're talking about the conflict in the Korean peninsula. The US and SK are basically synonymous since neither would sign a treaty without the agreement of the other. Here's another article for you to read.

    https://www.nknews.org/2013/10/the-problem-with-a-korean-peace-treaty/

     
  21. Muffin

    Muffin
    Member

    I refuse to believe that you all think posturing and threatening on Twitter has NK on the ropes. This isn't a beef between two Youtubers, this is geopolitics.

    There are plenty of other good possible causes for this development.
     
  22. Ravensmash

    Ravensmash
    Member

    Considering that we were all fearing war a few months back during the Guam situation, I'll take this over that.

    If it works, it works.
     
  23. Hokahey

    Hokahey
    Member

    Both of those links have North Korea saying they're going to maintain their nuclear arsenal.

    Never, ever has North Korea signalled a willingness to do a combination of all of the things they are signaling now. Never. This is historic.

    It's ok to dislike someone, like Trump, and still have the maturity and ability to give them credit when their actions have positive results.

    I suspect Trump has offered them a lot of money and god knows what else, but I don't care. Whatever shuts down their arsenal. IF he pulls this off, he deserves as much praise and applause for it as he does hate and vitriol for the terrible things he does.

    That's how reasoned adults measure and react to things. The world, and all human beings are not black/white, good/evil. There is nuance. Shades of gray. And the wisest of the wise paint with many, many colors.
     
  24. Frozenprince

    Frozenprince
    Member

    The US and South Korea have called their bluff literally every single time for the last 7 decades. This is not new. Sure we didn't threaten a counter nuclear launching but what do you think the army and scores of military bases we have positioned there are for? To look pretty?

    This isn't new, I'll believe that North Korea intends to disarm and disavow it's regime when it's done and over with years after the fact. Not now based on news reports that don't state anything other than vague allusions to a complete cessation of hostilities. Until this is proven to be more than yet another stunt to get the international community of his back, I am skeptical at best.
     
  25. I understand that it's hard for people on ERA to give Trump credit for something good that happened, but this would be a colossal achievement and Trump will get the Lion's share of the credit, at least domestically.
     
  26. I suggest you look up my posts in other threads regarding this matter if you're going to label me some irrational Trump hater. Take it up with the people who are actually that.
     
  27. kbear

    kbear
    Banned Member

    None of that is anywhere near the level of what's happening right now -- they're having actual talks and the President of South Korea has made statements that it's happening. You just linked an opinion piece, one that requires a subscription to read to boot. "North Korea has been pushing for a formal end to the war" ... come on, man.
     
  28. kbear

    kbear
    Banned Member

    Nailed it.
     
  29. All I said was that they've routinely lied in order to get what they want. Which warrants extreme suspicion. Is that wrong?
     
  30. Polaroid_64

    Polaroid_64
    Member

    People were fearing war because of Trump. We are used to NK's antics.

    But I don't care how or why, if peace actually happens along with the other promises.... hell yes! This would be huge. Historically huge.

    For now I am in wait and see mode. None of this really makes sense (except that NK gets some sanctions lifted, regroups and goes back to their old ways). Hopefully not.
     
  31. Riversands

    Riversands
    Member

    Ths news makes me wonder if i somehow slipped down to another pararell universe during my sleep
     
  32. Frozenprince

    Frozenprince
    Member

    The South Korean govt and the UN and US have all negotiated and had direct talks with the North Korean regime before. A sit down of the two leaders for PR purposes doesn't remove the decades of negotiations and counter negotiations during the famine.
     
  33. kbear

    kbear
    Banned Member

    I mean, that goes without saying. Lying about all of this, though, would be an enormous mistake for NK.
     
  34. Frozenprince

    Frozenprince
    Member

    More so then the dozens of other times they have lied to get what they want?
     
  35. Oh it would be? Like the past 30 years where they've gotten billions in aid and still progressed their nuclear program to where it is today?
     
  36. kbear

    kbear
    Banned Member

    Have they had talks at this level? Care to provide a link? With the combination of all of these things like denuclearization and no more missile testing? And with the SK President making firm statements like this before signaling a probably end to the Korean war? I don't think so.


    As it's been pointed out several times, this is a different situation with the stakes raised to unprecedented levels. You're being disingenuous if you can't see that.
     
  37. mercenar1e

    mercenar1e
    Member

    someone take Obamas Nobel Peace Prize and hand it over to Trump please.
     
  38. Frozenprince

    Frozenprince
    Member

    I mean the overwhelming credit should go to the Chinese and South Korean governments, if this does (and lets avoid counting our chickens before the hatch shall we) happen.

    It won't, obviously, but it should.
     
  39. Muffin

    Muffin
    Member

    Almost as if they're lying as they always are and not getting rid of their nuclear arsenal they built up for decades.

    And I love how you decry nobody giving Trump credit but immediately admit that you have no idea what he's done to deserve credit with your "money and god knows what else" line.
     
  40. NyMartin90

    NyMartin90
    Member

    Well put I must agree with this
     
  41. Muffin

    Muffin
    Member

    What exactly are the consequences for NK if their lie gets caught? They're already being sanctioned to hell. They have nothing to lose here.
     
  42. Eatin' Olives

    Eatin' Olives
    Member

    Trump's stupidity has been on the world news this entire time. If KJU is going to the negotiating table specifically because Trump is gonna be there, it's not because KJU got scared into submission, it'd be because he knows Trump is a fucking idiot who could be taken for a ride extremely easily. That should give you concern, not "I'm all for that because something something peace"

    Sure, though the Trump administration is colossally stupid and I would actually not be so sure as to say they know better than two random schmucks on a forum.

    Sure, IF this goes well without it being a disaster then he'll get some credit, but that's a gigantic IF. People seem to immediately jump to the "NK ends war, denuclearizes" end goal without really paying attention at all as to how we'd get there or how we got here. Pretty much everyone in this thread is acknowledging this is completely bizarre and there's no real reason anyone can give.

    Not that you're doing this specifically, but rushing to give Trump credit right now for something like this is like the time he was widely applauded for being "presidential" the first two times he read a teleprompted speech. This isn't the first time the public has tripped over itself to give credit to Trump where none is deserved.
     
  43. Giganteus

    Giganteus
    Member

    They have another tunnel they can use and it's been (or was) under preparation. It wasn't catastrophic based on the analysis and activity there. It's because of the tensions and the summit, and it's temporary.

    They're making sure that they're on their best behavior for the summit, easing tensions for a while, and they're trying to court trump to convince him of a more long-term denuclearization process instead of what the Trump administration have been pushing for; that will be impossible to enforce and enough time will have passed before the US feels it can do anything by the time they realize it's a stalling tactic. Deterrence prevails, they keep their nukes, and they finally have the US president face to face for the first time.

    They need to push Trump away from wanting an immediate and clear denuclearization and be clever enough with their wording while praying he ignores his advisors like John Bolton. I don't think it will work, but Trump is an idiot so it's very possible.

    Sorry, Era, no peace prize for Trump either way. Even if the summit seems to be a success initially, an agreed-to long-term denuke process is a trick, and an immediate one is just laughable.

    Let's not forget the Leap Day deal, either.
     
  44. Frozenprince

    Frozenprince
    Member

    https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/dprkchron
    https://beyondparallel.csis.org/25-years-of-negotiations-provocations/

    I'm old enough to remember Madeleine Albright visiting North Korea and the buzz the visit created. All parties involved have had sit down dialogues countless times in the last 3 decades. Stretching back through multiple political and socioeconomic climates. This is nothing new until we see firm, lasting results.
     
  45. Hokahey

    Hokahey
    Member

    Are you cynical about EVERYTHING or only when it fits your agenda? If these same things were happening and your choice of president were in office, I am confident you would be optimistic about these developments. While it's certainly fair to reserve caution here, outright dismissing it as total bullshit or saying Trump played no part is asinine.

    What do those two things have to do with one another? My point is that I don't know exactly how he's accomplished this, but he's clearly played a part.
     
  46. squeakywheel

    squeakywheel
    Member

    Drumpf: Man of the Year? Nobel Peace Prize if he pulls this off??
     
  47. Muffin

    Muffin
    Member

    Great reasoning there

    As I'm not an American, no I don't think I would rush to give credit to a president who is a diplomatic disaster and done nothing to accomplish this, even if they were "my president of choice".
     
  48. Airegin

    Airegin
    Member

    Maybe there are no rocket scientists left because they were all killed after failed tests.
     
  49. chicken_pasta

    chicken_pasta
    Member

    No. Look at that thicc red tie

    [​IMG]
     
  50. So are all the North Korea experts who have qualms about this partisan hacks who hate Trump? Victor Cha, his own hawkish pick for ambassador, has expressed deep skepticism over this from the start.

    https://twitter.com/VictorDCha