Not a fan of Baten Kaitos? Not aware of what Baten Kaitos even is? Shame on you

MilesTeg

Member
Jan 29, 2019
274
Baten Kaitos is pretty good. The graphics are great and the battle system is pretty fun. The voice acting can be grating in battle I guess, but it’s whatever.

Both games are fun but the second one is more refined. I can’t remember if I beat both of them or just one of them.

Possible spoiler:

I remember the ending to one of them being some really cheesy shit, like “I’m your father” or something.
 

Dnomla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
523
United States
Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean is a beautiful, under-appreciated game. And one of my favorite JRPGs. I love everything about...except the voice acting. The actual writing is good though.

Baten Kaitos Origins is still a great game, but not as good as the first. Everything about it is a little weaker, except the voice acting, it's excellent. And Guillo makes up for most of the shortcomings anyways.

We need some kind of re-release so more people can play it.
 

Dolobill

Member
Oct 25, 2017
425
I started playing it earlier this year but I'm only about 8 hours in. I really liked what I played and hope to get back to it and finish it sometime this year. It's a beautiful game.
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
I loved this game back in the day. The environments and story were unique. And the plot twist were pretty fun.

Some of the boss battles had ridiculous difficulty spikes. The fight on the airship vs the three Empire guys and the undead boss thing not long after a certain party member returns in particular I struggled with. Origins never released in Europe :(
I like being over leveled in my RPG's so I've luckily been able to go through the game with very little trouble :D
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
Baten Kaitos is pretty good. The graphics are great and the battle system is pretty fun. The voice acting can be grating in battle I guess, but it’s whatever.
The only person who bugs me in battle is Xelha. "Aqua Burst! Aqua Burst! Wind Blow! Fire Burst! Fire Burst! Fire Burst! Fire Burst!"

"there are things in this world you mustn't touch, who cares!"
That line bugs me like u guys couldn't come up with anything better?
 

grandjedi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,281
Baten Kaitos is an alright game with some rough edges

Origins is legit amazing and it's sad that few got the chance to play it.
 

-shadow-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,703
Bought it some time last year, but admittedly haven't played it yet. With the AI upscaling, I'm hoping someone gives that a try before I play the game. I don't have a CRT anymore, so the game would look butt ugly if I stuck my GC in my TV.
 

robjoh

Member
Oct 31, 2017
412
I am actually also replaying it now, never finished it. I actually like the battle system; however I would say that it has some flaws that I had forgotten.

1, some ridiculous fetch quests that just feels unnecessary to get the story going.
2, in on instance the battle becomes a fetch quest getting knights from the sick bay back to the fight. Really really boring.
3, until I got to Mira their was no real challenge in the battles and then I have ignored any side quests and just pressed on.

It is however still a great game. Unsure if BKO even realesed in EU.
 

Yoshi88

Member
Oct 26, 2017
193
Baten Kaitos Origins stil holds place No.1 as the best prequel.

Much improved gameplay, great stand-alone story with new areas and one of the best RPG-casts but also with huge ramifications and twists only known when you played the first game.

It's lighnting in a bottle. My first and only import, because they couldn't be bothered to release it in EU -.-

(After BKO was the first time i wished for Nintendo to buy/ incorporate Monolith, guess what happened a few years later?)

Missable special attacks in the first game is my biggest criticism regarding the franchise.
 

Eppcetera

Member
Mar 3, 2018
306
I bought Baten Kaitos used ages ago, and I still haven't played it, so I have some shame, in this case.
 

kuhn87

Member
Sep 26, 2018
9
In my opinion it was a very generic RPG, with many flaws and a terrible battle system

Origins though... It was a fucking masterpiece
 

Jo-awn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
712
New York, NY
I'm so glad I bought Origins at Nintendo World way back when. Also, as someone who suffered through only having a Gamecube, the first Baten Kaitos was a godsend because it was sorely lacking JRPGs. At its core, it was basically Monolith Soft's answer to FFX because Gibari=Wakka and Kalas and Xelha= Tidus and Yuna. And there was an ancient god and something about a whale which was another similarity. But Kalas and Xelha never consummated their sexual tension as far as I know.

I beat it many years later and thought it had an interesting ending. It was the antithesis of Skies of Arcadia. But the voice acting was bad as it sounded like voice actors recorded their lines in a bathroom. Melia was probably one of the biggest offenders voice acting wise. Melia's VA was terrible and Xelha was right behind her as well.

Origins was a much better game but as others mentioned, I preferred BK1's combat more. There was so much complexity and depth to BK1 that something was lost with the streamlined, faster combat. I certainly didn't enjoy the shared deck as opposed to individual character decks. But I think Origins put 8-4 on a map because I remember Mark, John, Hiroko, and co. being super proud of it. The voice acting and localization was great thanks to them (although TC Carson and whoever voiced the woman were out of sync at times). I also got a kick out of the fighting game style battle announcer's feedback with his "EMPEEE BUUUURST!"

Both games had few big stinkers with the main one being a boss at the beginning of disc 2 if you played the game sans a guide and didn't have multiple save files. You didn't grind and didn't know the boss' weakness? You can kiss several hours goodbye. Also, the fetch quests sucked and some of them were damn near impossible (the Pac-Man side quest in particular). Some of the solutions to a fetch quest wasn't obvious (how was I supposed to know how to make a cottoncap gauze for Lyuvann when there was an even more obvious solution?). Plus the animations looked robotic as sin. At least Smash Bros. Ultimate contains a few Baten Kaitos Origins nods and some Origins music but that's about the extent of it.

Only 2 guys speedrun BK1. Want to get 100%? 341hrs 20mins and 3 seconds. I remember reading a Kotaku article about how the guy said most of the 100% run is tons and tons of waiting to let the magnus cards age in real time. I just learned someone Origins has one speedrunner to get it on the map that was quite recent: https://www.speedrun.com/batenkaitos
 

Vault

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,135
The compression on the voice acting was so bad every character sounds like they are underwater
 

Yoshi88

Member
Oct 26, 2017
193
The compression on the voice acting was so bad every character sounds like they are underwater
It could be solved to 99% by changing sound output to Dolby Pro Logic II, at least in EU (even if you didn'thave a corresponding sound system). Was shared as a tip all over the magazines at that time.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,450
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
I played it for the first time this year, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Love the creativity that went into the world building, battle system, story and presentation. It has some stinky design moments though, and the characters and their VO was pretty dire. I'm glad I was told to stagger saves, because it's entirely possible at some instances to lock your save in an unwinnable state. It also locked up on me a few times, but that might just have been the state of the disk itself.

I'm a PAL-region peasant though, so the sequel is not within reasonable grasp for the time being. Kinda crossing my fingers for a digital re-release.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Oct 26, 2017
365
they didn't release the sequel in Europe ;_;

I was so into the first one as a kid, when i read there was going to be a sequel in the video game magazine i used to buy, i was so exited. Then it was never released. Broke my young heart. Compensated it by playing the first one over and over.

The game was turn based. However, during your turn, your opponent could defend himself and, conversely, you could defend yourself during theirs. To fight you used a deck of cards. You could only have a small number of cards in your hand at a time and, as you used them, other cards from your deck would take their place.

Each of your cards had a number (from 1 to 9), and the idea was to do combos (like a straight in poker: 1,2,3,4,5,etc... or 5,4,3,2,1,etc...). At the beginning of the game each card would only have one number, but as you advanced, you would start getting cards with 2 numbers, then 3 and finally 4 (one number per corner).

When you were first introduced to the idea of being able to choose cards to defend yourself (so a defensive phase), it seemed like a brilliant idea, but later in game, i'd say it started to affecting the pacing of battles in a negative way.

The game had to give you a bit of time before each of your opponent's hits, so that you could chose a card from your hand to defend yourself with. This wasn't much of a problem at the beginning of the game, where both your combos and those of your enemies were short (2-3 hit combos). However, you would eventually be able of doing 6-9 hit combos, and your enemies would too.

Imagine you were in a boss battle, later in the game, fighting against 3 enemies at once. After your turn, you'd have to sit thought each of your 3 enemies combos, one at a time: a slow 6 hit or more combo that ended in a (even slower) charged/finisher move. That was once per turn.

The defensive turn didn't just affect the pace of battle, but also the process of building a deck. The fact you had to reserve part of your deck for defensive cards (i.e. cards that could not be used during your attacking turn) made making a deck that much more difficult.

Ideally, you would want to set up your deck to increase the likelihood of getting a straight (1,2,3,4,etc...) in your attacking turn. You wouldn't get a straight on your hand right away, obviously. But, as you started a combo (with a low number card, expecting to go up from there, or a high number card, expecting to go down), the other cards you needed would supposedly come in (with a bit of luck and a good constructed deck).

To increase your likelihood of doing combos, you needed to have an equal number of 1s, 2s, 3s etc... Managing that balance as you were constantly getting new cards to put in your deck was hard enough, but then there was also the fact that, as you advanced through the game, the number of card you could have in your deck would increase from 20 to 30, 40, 50, etc... (throwing that balance off, forcing you to remake your deck).

To make matter worse, each of your characters had its independent cards and deck, meaning you had to maintain that balance of 1s, 2s, 3s, etc... for a minimum of 3 characters. Then add to this, there was (if i remember correctly) 6 types of cards. They were distributed in 3 groups of 2, which each pair counteracting each other (i.e. if you used a water card and a fire card in a combo, they would cancel each other). And on top of all that, you had to reserve part of your deck to defensive cards? come the fuck on.

The fact you had to reserve part of your deck for defensive cards, made making straights on your attack phase that much more difficult. The defensive cards you currently had on your hand during your attack phase, couldn't be used for attacking, effectively making your hand smaller and taking up space from offensive cards.

Still, you couldn't simply ignore the defense phase and only include offensive cards in your deck since, if you did that, you'd take way to much damage during your defensive phase (as the game expected you to use defensive cards as "shields", as you were getting hit).

So, you had to keep an extremely tight balance between how many attack and defense cards you had, in addition to having an equal number of 1s, 2s, 3s, etc... for both the attacking and defensive phase, in addition to making sure you didn't use cards with opposite types, in addition to doing all this with a minimum of 3 separate decks (you could fight with 3 fighter at once) but your party was bigger than that (like in all RPGs). So, yeah...

It's not like the defense turn was that fun anyway, since what generally ended up happening during it was that you were scraping to find anything you could use to defend yourself with, disregarding card combos and such (which where the fun part). Just as defensive cards took up space on your hand during your attack phase, your attack cards took space during your defensive phase.

What all this meant was that, if you wanted to have a good deck (i.e. a deck that increased the likelihood of you getting crazy combos), you were constantly spending way to much time managing your decks thought the game. And don't get me wrong, i enjoyed doing it, but that didn't stop me from seeing the flaws in the system and how it could have been much more straightforward.

There were different solutions:
- not having a defensive phase at all
- having two separate decks, one exclusively for defense, one for offense
- all your characters sharing one deck

Although, for the last one, the problems that come with attack and defensive cards sharing the same deck would still be there? Of course you don't want to oversimplify things, you want to find a right balance, but i don't think the first game got it quite right.

I know the second game changed the battle system, by having all your characters sharing a single deck? I can't remember what else they changed. I'd like if anyone who has played both game's could comment on how the dynamic of battles and building a deck was on one game compared to the other
 
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Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,808
I got the first one, I kind of liked it but got stuck and just didn't go back. The second one never released in Europe. I've a funny feeling I may have imported a copy at some point with the intention to play it on my hacked Wii, but don't think I ever got round to it.
 

Enduin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,247
New York
It's one of my fondest and favorite gaming experiences. BK had some rough edges but it's a gem for sure. There's so much greatness to the art, music, characters, story and gameplay.

Then BKO came out and was like "want me to blow your fucking mind?"

It's easily one of the biggest tragedies in gaming for me that it didn't sell well and will likely never see a remaster, let alone a proper sequel.
 

BlueManifest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,325
I always see people saying how great this game was but why don’t the reviews match what people say?
 

Keasar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,256
Skövde, Sweden
I think I have a copy of the game that I bought after finding it in a discount bin, need to take a look. I don't think I have played it yet.

Edit: yup, found it, maybe should give it a chance some day soon.
 

VN1X

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,220
Always liked the look of the Gamecube game but never got around to buying it.

I love saying "Baten Kaitos" though. Something about it is so satisfying lol.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Oct 26, 2017
365
i hope i explained the dynamic of the battle system and of building a deck with my post above good enough. I did my best.
 
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Correctomundo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
826
Here, duh.
I've had both of them for ages, but I've only barely started the first one (EWatLO). I manage to get to the first town and then I lose interest. I've restarted it somewhere around six times now, and it's always the same story.

Really sucks, because I've heard so many good things about Origins, and it doesn't seem right to start that one without finishing the first. NOw my backlog has pushed them faaar away. *sadface*
 

Deleted member 10060

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
959
I would be completely down for a rerelease of these games. Or I need to find some old CRT so I can hook up my gamecube.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Oct 26, 2017
365
yeah there was a CD that came with all of the game's tracks (at least it came with mine), and i used to listen to it all the time. The music was great. The battle them got tiring to me at least
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
645
I beat Baten Kaitos. Ultimately didn't like the main character and convoluted story for the sake of convoluted story. Sold it. BK Origins on the other hand was enjoyable and being a prequel having to work with what came after, it did a pretty reasonable job with it. Still own it and will some day replay.
 

clay_ghost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,135
I've had both of them for ages, but I've only barely started the first one (EWatLO). I manage to get to the first town and then I lose interest. I've restarted it somewhere around six times now, and it's always the same story.

Really sucks, because I've heard so many good things about Origins, and it doesn't seem right to start that one without finishing the first. NOw my backlog has pushed them faaar away. *sadface*
It still works great as an standalone. Origins is one of my favourite JRPG of all times and should be experienced by all who have access to it.

I really hoped for an HD release of it on an more popular console so more can play the game.
 

duckvalentine

NA Staff Writer, GamesIndustry.biz
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
44
Ugh, Baten Kaitos is so good. One of my absolute faves, and BKO is great too. The only bad thing about BK is the voice acting, which is outright painful at times. But the music, story, art, gameplay, and battle system more than make up for it. The Magnus system is just crazy fun to play with.
 
Nov 11, 2017
40
Baten Kaitos is a nice game if you can get past Kalas' face


The evolution system for the cards was also a bit frustrating. I can't count how many time I was like "oh great, my awesome card is now useless".
But the gameplay itself was great ! Building a deck to unleash poweful combos was really fun.
 

Ecthel

Member
Nov 20, 2017
84
What the heck’s wrong with you guys? How has no one posted that freakin’ legendary battle theme yet?!



And if that’s somehow too tame for y’all, have some shreds:


The way they used the original battle theme in the prequel is also the best. Origins is like the perfect fanservice game for those who loved the original.


Honne is still working at Monolith so maybe someday we can see a spiritual successor, but probably the rights for the franchise are in a bad situation (developed by Monolith and Tri-Crescendo, published by Namco and then the sequel by Nintendo).

I bought the FreeLoader disc for GameCube just to play Origins (never released in Europe), and installed the homebrew channel on the Wii also so I could play on that.
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
It's one of my fondest and favorite gaming experiences. BK had some rough edges but it's a gem for sure. There's so much greatness to the art, music, characters, story and gameplay.

Then BKO came out and was like "want me to blow your fucking mind?"

It's easily one of the biggest tragedies in gaming for me that it didn't sell well and will likely never see a remaster, let alone a proper sequel.
you guys are making me really excited for BKO
 

Stiltzkin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,135
Just beat the game for the first time a few months ago and I while I enjoyed some parts of it, I mostly couldn't wait for it to end.

First, the positives. The world, the prerendered backgrounds, and the music are amazing and hold up incredibly well today. Even the graphics aren't terrible by today's standards - I found myself constantly impressed by some of the art styles and effects that Namco used throughout (like the Cloud City Diadem below)


The music was also a highlight, with Rumbling of the Earth, Gentle Wind, Flighty Spirits, and House of Cards being some of my favorites.

Other than that, though...man I had a hard time getting through this.

The most glaring problems for me were the battle system, voice overs, pacing, and overall story. I'm probably one of the few people who didn't enjoy the battle system the longer it went. The more I played, the more I loathed fighting because of how time-consuming it was. Even weak enemies took forever to get rid of because all you would do is click a set of cards and wait like 10 seconds for your attack to play out. Some of the bosses were also infuriating with the card system being kind of a crap shoot with what type of element they were weak against. Many times I'd find myself going into a boss battle just to see what it was weak against or how it responded, reloading the game, and then rearranging my deck to make it a bit easier. This sort of on-the-fly response/strategy you'd find in any other JRPG is sorely missing here because most of it comes down to either a luck of the draw in your deck, or you just reloading to reassemble your deck.

The voice overs are atrocious and never grew on me. Like it wasn't even one of those so-bad-it's-good things, it's like the devs picked up people off the street and gave them a script with no direction or context for anything being said. Those points in the story where something is supposed to be sad or even shocking is totally ruined by awful voices. Also, Kalas is unlikeable as hell...even when he's supposed to be likeable.

Also, this isn't as important to the game but I hated the overall design of all the characters. All of them (minus Savyna and Mizuti) were dorky looking and only made their voices dorkier. More importantly, however, the side quests were also lame as hell, with the family tree quest being especially notable for me in their lameness.

Finally, the pacing of the game was all sort of whack for me. Slow burns all throughout that made me constantly stop and ask what was going on and why I cared. It was only near the end with the big "twist" that things got interesting, and by then I just wanted to finish. Even then, the game continues and drags on before getting to some decent story sections.

Probably being too hard on the game, but man it left a slightly negative-to-mediocre impression on me. I've heard good things about Origins, though...but I'm not sure if the people saying Origins is good are the ones that also liked this one.

Edit: after looking through some other posts, maybe I should give Origins a try.
 
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eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,068
Loved the first and bought Origins day 1, but I never played it. I plan to rectify this sometime in my life.

I hardly remember anything from the first game though, hopefully that won't be too much of a problem.
 

code_link

Member
Nov 8, 2017
87
I feel like you have shared my pain. No auto saves in-between. Noped the heck out of there.

*Edit - or was it the airship battle? I remember finishing two boss fights back to back and then getting hit with a third? ‘Twas a long time ago now...
I remember it was a fight with three meanies, dang it. Also, Holo Holo bird, hah! Gotta love these gems.
 

Enduin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,247
New York
You have to turn sound to Surround Sound on BK in order for it to not sound like it's an echo chamber, but can't do much for the quality of the VA sadly. I didn't hate it but I get why it could be grating for others.

BKO on the otherhand has very good VA and sound overall. The turnaround in quality was pretty huge. At the time BKO was probably some of the best VA, bar one or two annoying characters. Guillo to this day remains outstanding.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,260
I am playing this as well at the moment. Played it back then but not very far. I really enjoy it. It has it's flaws like being very slow paced and featuring some bad voice acting (you can deactivate it) but overall it's a really good game. Collecting cards and improving your decks is very motivating and the battle system is a lot of fun. Graphics are nice and the music is very good. Story is okay-ish so far, but the game world is very well done.
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
Just beat the game for the first time a few months ago and I while I enjoyed some parts of it, I mostly couldn't wait for it to end.

First, the positives. The world, the prerendered backgrounds, and the music are amazing and hold up incredibly well today. Even the graphics aren't terrible by today's standards - I found myself constantly impressed by some of the art styles and effects that Namco used throughout (like the Cloud City Diadem below)


The music was also a highlight, with Rumbling of the Earth, Gentle Wind, Flighty Spirits, and House of Cards being some of my favorites.

Other than that, though...man I had a hard time getting through this.

The most glaring problems for me were the battle system, voice overs, pacing, and overall story. I'm probably one of the few people who didn't enjoy the battle system the longer it went. The more I played, the more I loathed fighting because of how time-consuming it was. Even weak enemies took forever to get rid of because all you would do is click a set of cards and wait like 10 seconds for your attack to play out. Some of the bosses were also infuriating with the card system being kind of a crap shoot with what type of element they were weak against. Many times I'd find myself going into a boss battle just to see what it was weak against or how it responded, reloading the game, and then rearranging my deck to make it a bit easier. This sort of on-the-fly response/strategy you'd find in any other JRPG is sorely missing here because most of it comes down to either a luck of the draw in your deck, or you just reloading to reassemble your deck.

The voice overs are atrocious and never grew on me. Like it wasn't even one of those so-bad-it's-good things, it's like the devs picked up people off the street and gave them a script with no direction or context for anything being said. Those points in the story where something is supposed to be sad or even shocking is totally ruined by awful voices. Also, Kalas is unlikeable as hell...even when he's supposed to be likeable.

Also, this isn't as important to the game but I hated the overall design of all the characters. All of them (minus Savyna and Mizuti) were dorky looking and only made their voices dorkier. More importantly, however, the side quests were also lame as hell, with the family tree quest being especially notable for me in their lameness.

Finally, the pacing of the game was all sort of whack for me. Slow burns all throughout that made me constantly stop and ask what was going on and why I cared. It was only near the end with the big "twist" that things got interesting, and by then I just wanted to finish. Even then, the game continues and drags on before getting to some decent story sections.

Probably being too hard on the game, but man it left a slightly negative-to-mediocre impression on me. I've heard good things about Origins, though...but I'm not sure if the people saying Origins is good are the ones that also liked this one.
Aw this made me sad :(

At one point I also thought battles were too time consuming so I'll be honest, I just grinded for a little bit and I haven't had a problem since. Most Monolith Soft games have this flaw tbh lol

As for the weaknesses, I've never had much of an issue, really. I try to avoid putting Dark cards as much as possible, and pretty much all monsters that are weak to Water or Fire are also weak to something else, or at the very least, aren't resistant to other elements.

The voice acting I mostly like. Sometimes it takes me out of the moment, and sometimes it's charmingly horrendous.

I like the design of the characters. *shrugs* Their outfits are pretty odd but I love the faces for all of them

Idk it has never felt too slow to me personally, but obviously that's due to the fact that I enjoy far more aspects of the game than you. Sorry u didn't enjoy ur time :(