Not a fan of Baten Kaitos? Not aware of what Baten Kaitos even is? Shame on you

DrHercouet

Member
May 25, 2018
204
France
Shit's gonna hit the fan very soon my friend, and from there it's a Chrono Cross/Xenoblade like third act which means you won't have a second to catch your breath. But yeah, I think I remember the game was dragging for a bit around the Bird. Goddamn Bird.
 

thetrin

Content Acquisition at DANGEN Entertainment
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,903
Osaka Japan
back in the day when the game first came out in japanese, I wrote the first battle system guide for GameFAQs, explaining how the system worked. The guide had a couple contributor, but one major contributor: Jonnyram of all people. We actually didn't realize this until years later when we met in person at a Sony party, and we realized that we had worked on the same guide together.
 

SantaC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,693
back in the day when the game first came out in japanese, I wrote the first battle system guide for GameFAQs, explaining how the system worked. The guide had a couple contributor, but one major contributor: Jonnyram of all people. We actually didn't realize this until years later when we met in person at a Sony party, and we realized that we had worked on the same guide together.
Wasnt jonnyram a frequent gaf poster back in 2005-2006
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,339
I watched a playthrough years ago and I remember the game fondly even though I never played it.

The twist was pretty good as well.
 
Apr 24, 2018
819
A friend of mine accidentally erased my saves TWICE for Baten Kaitos when I was near the end of the game both times in college, so I never got to beat it. It was his roommate's game so I never really had a chance to play it again after freshman year. Never played Origins.
 

tiesto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,379
Long Island, NY
I was never a fan of that early 2000s Japanese gaming trend where card game mechanics were added into a whole bunch of games (or other series got card game spinoffs), but the setting and the gorgeous prerendered backgrounds intrigued me.

Unfortunately, while there is a lot of cool stuff about the first game, I found it to be extremely sluggish with design decisions that further hinder the speed. Battles took forever as you went through both the attack and defense phases, some boss battles lasted upwards of 30 minutes. The environmental puzzles which required collecting magus cards to progress was frustrating due to the limited inventory and lots of backtracking, then there were a few areas where you were slooooowly walking through snow or mud or what have you.

Mizuti was a charming character, the rest of the party was kinda 'there', though I did like the lead character's plot twist.

The environments were so supernatural and otherworldly, Mira the World of Illusion having some of the most original environments I've ever seen in an rpg. This has always been Monolith's strong point, ever since the Chrono Cross days.

Even though I wasn't big on the original, Dragona from the old site convinced me to try Origins and I'm glad I did. IMO the first truly great Monolith game (at a time when Nintendo purchased them and people were like "what... why THEM?"). Much faster and fluid combat, fantastic story that builds on the first game, and more UX enhancements.
 

DrHercouet

Member
May 25, 2018
204
France
Even though I wasn't big on the original, Dragona from the old site convinced me to try Origins and I'm glad I did. IMO the first truly great Monolith game (at a time when Nintendo purchased them and people were like "what... why THEM?"). Much faster and fluid combat, fantastic story that builds on the first game, and more UX enhancements.
Baten Kaitos Eternal Wings is a good game, but Baten Kaitos Origins feels like a reward to having completed the first game. It's a brilliant diptych : as a stand-alone, Baten Kaitos Eternal Wings is good, but as the set up of the part 2 that is Origins, it's just brilliant.
 

Big_Erk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
620
KC
Baiten Kaitos is an awesome series. I was literally talking to my sons about it the other day, wishing someone would revive it. Bring back Baiten Kaitos and PowerStone and I'll be a happy man.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,536
Nintendo needs to buy the IP and then let Honne's Kyoto Studio produce their first game with it. They can work with tri-Crescendo again even.
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,764
Jordan
I think i still have the original game on GameCube somewhere.
this game always felt to me like a spiritual successor for Chrono Cross, but unfortunately the voice acting was very bad (as is the case with the majority of BN games).
 

rickyson33

Member
Nov 23, 2017
527
i'll never forget this game just because of the way I found out about it by randomly renting it from a video store on a whim never having heard of it then played it all weekend,was one of the more pleasant gaming "surprises" of my childhood

definitely like origins a lot more though
 

Diablos54

Member
Oct 26, 2017
265
Love this game, good battle system, decent story with a good twist or two, and some of the backgrounds are just glorious! Some of the side quests with the clear cards and absorbing things were really clever. Has some drawbacks, but definitely worth a playthrough.
 

LightningBolt

Member
May 17, 2019
103
Tried to play this game a little while back. I was looking forward to it a lot because I like Monolith Soft quite a bit. Unfortunately I didn't take to it and I dropped it a little bit into Disc 2 iirc. It was shortly after the battle against the 3 characters that's considered one of the harder ones in the game. I was really digging the music and environmental art (some really beautiful, unique areas) and I thought the story had some interesting things going on, but I really didn't care at all for the characters (made worse by the abysmal voice acting and mediocre character artwork), and I really didn't care for the battle system. I thought it had some interesting qualities, but it had a number of shortcomings. I thought the mechanic of cards aging was really cool, but then all my food started rotting and it was just sort of a pain in the ass after a while and having to tweak my decks over and over again. I've heard the prequel is a lot better, but I'm not sure when I'll get around to that one. I love JRPG's and always looked forward to playing this one and it didn't deliver for me.
 

night814

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,151
Pennsylvania
When I first read the thread it inspired too go back and finish my last playhrough I started earlier this year. Going to start Origins soon after I beat a few other things.
 

Mr_Moogle

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,883
Man I loved Baten Kaitos. I even imported Origins and bought a Freeloader disc so I could play it on my PAL Gamecube. Origins is the better game too.

I don't know how anybody could look at gifs like this and not yearn for the good old days of pre-rendered backgrounds.







 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
FF6 - 9
Chrono trigger
Secret of mana
Stuff like that
I personally think BK1 has better gameplay than FF6-9 and CT (haven't played Secret), and Origins honestly has one of my favorite battle systems of all time because it's so fucking fast. BK1's basic plot is cliche, but it has a lot of interesting events, and it honestly kept me engaged the entire time through. The characters, IMO, are endearing and memorable, but I wouldn't say that they're on the level of FFVI or IX's cast.

As for Baten Kaitos Origins' plot though, I'm not done with it yet, so I can't say. But I've only heard good things about it.
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
Shit's gonna hit the fan very soon my friend, and from there it's a Chrono Cross/Xenoblade like third act which means you won't have a second to catch your breath. But yeah, I think I remember the game was dragging for a bit around the Bird. Goddamn Bird.
Seems like you were right.

Currently at the Battlegrounds of Atria. The twist of the group being the origin of Malpercio was pretty good. Though not totally shocking. Also the execution was kinda meh, but only because I could tell it was kind of rushed. Didn't think the entire group would just be like "yeah ok through thick and thin, I'll sell my soul to darkness too"

But yeah the game definitely got more exciting. Can't wait to play more tonight!
 

rickyson33

Member
Nov 23, 2017
527
not entirely related to baten kaitos but this thread seems as good a place to ask as any

are xenosaga/xenogears worth playing if I liked the baten kaitos and xenoblade games?
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
not entirely related to baten kaitos but this thread seems as good a place to ask as any

are xenosaga/xenogears worth playing if I liked the baten kaitos and xenoblade games?
They're very different. I LOVE the Xenosaga trilogy (II is actually my favorite by far, but I'm the extreme minority. I is still a good game but it hasn't aged well in some aspects), personally. Xenogears is great but the fact that you can't fast-forward the text literally killed the game for me lol
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
Shit's gonna hit the fan very soon my friend, and from there it's a Chrono Cross/Xenoblade like third act which means you won't have a second to catch your breath. But yeah, I think I remember the game was dragging for a bit around the Bird. Goddamn Bird.
Another update: holyyyyyyyyy shitttttttttt I played for a couple more hours last night and I was TOTALLY caught off-guard oh my god.
 

DrHercouet

Member
May 25, 2018
204
France
Another update: holyyyyyyyyy shitttttttttt I played for a couple more hours last night and I was TOTALLY caught off-guard oh my god.
Hell yeah !

I don't want to spoil but was that the "guardian angel" moment? With the Apotheosis and stuff?

Xenogears is great but the fact that you can't fast-forward the text literally killed the game for me lol
I've been playing Xenogears and watching Evangelion at the same time, and can confirm : Xenogears feels much closer to Evangelion to whatever Chrono or BK is (great game though)
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
Hell yeah !

I don't want to spoil but was that the "guardian angel" moment? With the Apotheosis and stuff?

Yeah. When I saw the dark aura surrounding Sagi I was like "omg... what there's no way" and then they just continued throwing bombshells. There were a few times where I had to pause to soak in how shocked I was.

Also, the voice acting is some of the most convincing I've ever heard.


But the biggest plot twist was the reveal that Shanath is apparently straight lol
 

DrHercouet

Member
May 25, 2018
204
France
Yeah. When I saw the dark aura surrounding Sagi I was like "omg... what there's no way" and then they just continued throwing bombshells. There were a few times where I had to pause to soak in how shocked I was.

Also, the voice acting is some of the most convincing I've ever heard.


But the biggest plot twist was the reveal that Shanath is apparently straight lol
Yeah!! My biggest frustration was being spoiled the Malpercio hill moment when I read a walkthrough - I'm weak but I was stuck and the writer didn't give a shit about spoiling the story between two hints. But the true nature of the Guardian Spirit, holy shit. The "monologue" made me cry because you could FEEL the despair in Sagi. Also the monolith he's stuck in was supposed to be a cross - probably no other meaning that "it looks cool" like they did for Evangelion but still. You're 100% right about the voice acting, it's one of the best. And I love every goddamn characters in this game. The story isn't AMAZING but the twist go along some very good characterizations and I am NEVER forgetting Marno.
 

Dark Cloud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,394
Thank you! I wasn't sure because Nintendo published the GC title and owns Monolith now.
I did see someone say the second game Nintendo might share with Namco (kind of like Bayonetta 2 with Sega), but I’m not sure if that’s true.

Edit: reading online I don’t see Nintendo’s name in the trademarks for the second game. So it’s all Namcos.
 

MisterSpo

Member
Feb 12, 2019
96
St Helens, UK
Being in Europe I only ever played the first Baten Kaitos, which, despite the flaws, I did really enjoy. I'd happily buy a HD double-pack - it'd be a good opportunity to sort out some of the rough edges and give gamers in the West the choice of Japanese-language audio.
 

Dark Cloud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,394
Ah! Yeah, perhaps they funded the development without owning the IP, so they just co-own one single title.
Hmm I’m not too sure now lol. I thought maybe the second game was only Namcos due to Nintendo not being in the trademark, but maybe that doesn’t matter?

I just looked at a walkthrough on YouTube and Nintendo and Namcos name are on the title screen of Baten Kaitos Origins (the copyright) Maybe Nintendo does own that game too? Lol

More people seem to like Origins too.
 

Lichtsang

Member
Jan 2, 2018
3,456
I just looked at a walkthrough on YouTube and Nintendo and Namcos name are on the title screen of Baten Kaitos Origins. Maybe Nintendo does own that game too? Lol
That's interesting!

In the credits I found this:

Producer
Hirohide Sugiura (monolithsoft)

Executive Producer
Satoru Iwata (Nintendo)

Director
Hiroya Hatsushiba (tri-Crescendo), Yasuyuki Honne (monolithsoft)

Developed by
Monolith Software Inc., tri‑Crescendo Inc.

Produced by
Namco Bandai Games Inc.

Published by
Nintendo

Nintendo Staff

North American Localization
8‑4 Ltd., Alan Averill

Localization Management
Jeff Miller, Leslie Swan, William Trinen
I don't know if it's noteworthy that Iwata was Executive Producer?
 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
Hell yeah !

I don't want to spoil but was that the "guardian angel" moment? With the Apotheosis and stuff?


I've been playing Xenogears and watching Evangelion at the same time, and can confirm : Xenogears feels much closer to Evangelion to whatever Chrono or BK is (great game though)
lol I've also started watching Evangelion! I'm only on Episode 5 though. It almost feels like some sort of alt-dimension anime of Xenogears.
 

rickyson33

Member
Nov 23, 2017
527
so this is kinda random but this thread inspired me to play these games for the first time in a decade or so and I was trying to grind out some magnus somewhere and turned dolphins speed up to 140%

at that speed the first games voice acting actually randomly becomes super hilarious,straight up turns into super fast chipmunk sounding voices

seriously try it it's great
 

Scheris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
310
First game was alright, the “twist” was done pretty well. Had to mute the voices, man was that some of the most awful voice acting ever. Music was great.

Absolutely loved the sequel. Still amazed at this song in particular, that theme still gives me chills listening to it. Pretty sure it was the composer’s daughter who sung it.

 
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theofficefan99
Oct 31, 2017
4,254
So I'm almost at the final dungeon of BKO, though I'm gonna see if I can finish the Colosseum first and whatnot.

Overall, I think it's a good game, but I don't like it as much as the original. I'm pretty sure part of it has to do with me playing the original immediately beforehand, so I just saw the reuse of environments as lazy.

The combat is fantastic and addicting and the voice acting is phenomenal, but the pacing in this game is really horrendous IMO and there's way too many instances of obvious bloating/filler. I'm also not a fan of the smaller party. Music is also a huge downgrade. I don't care for any track outside of Valedictory Elegy, whereas the original has plenty of memorable tracks that I love. I also feel like the models in the game are a little worse (Sagi looks really bad) and the lack of a CG opening sucks :/ And while the plot is enjoyable outside of the pacing, there's something about it that feels a little bit off but I haven't put my finger on it yet.

Hopefully the final 5 or so hours make me love the game.
 
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iag

Member
Oct 27, 2017
495
Last time I played Origins I didn't kill
Wiseman
. Does it makes the ending different?