November Democratic Debate: one night, ten candidates, this Wednesday in Atlanta

[Umbrella Carp]

He pretty clearly does not support sending troops into Mexico from the video?

it's... really clear, he puts like 5 conditions that would never occur on sending troops to Mexico if the Mexico government desperately wanted it and there were no other alternatives.

Click to shrink...

How about zero conditions? How about we not do it at all period? The absolute best thing America can do for Mexico is to END THE DRUG WAR. It is entirely possible for them to do that with domestic policy, and to really hammer the point home, the U.S Government can lobby allied countries with a similar hostile attitude towards drugs to do the same.

Seriously this is not even up for debate. I don't care what circumstances Mayor Pete thinks he can put on it, armed intervention by the U.S army into Mexico is possibly the single worst foreign policy idea currently going around. You think the border is bad now?

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

How about zero conditions? How about we not do it at all period? The absolute best thing America can do for Mexico is to END THE DRUG WAR. It is entirely possible for them to do that with domestic policy, and to really hammer the point home, the U.S Government can lobby allied countries with a similar hostile attitude towards Drugs to do the same.

Seriously this is not even up for debate. I don't care what circumstances Mayor Pete thinks he can put on it, armed intervention by the U.S army into Mexico is possibly the single worst foreign policy idea currently going around. You think the border is bad now?

Click to shrink...

He literally talks about ending the drug war in the video?

Did you watch the video?

 

[YamchasRevenge]

 

[Umbrella Carp]

Click to shrink...

Why is this guy pretending that AA will vote for Trump under any circumstances?

 

[easter]

I just realized we both forgot Harris.

No one else noticed.

Click to shrink...

she was scolding me with that head nod the entire debate.

 

[Deleted member 43514]

He really isn't

Click to shrink...

I went from being interested in his views to despising him. He is polling 0% with blacks and 2% with Latinos. His "Douglass plan" is a mockery and he can't keep his own house in order.

I really think Biden or Warren will get it in the end. Sanders at this point i support the most but I'm genuinely concerned he will auto-lose to Trump.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

https://mobile.twitter.com/niktaylorde/status/1195457863436685314

(it seems I don't know how to embed tweets but I'm referring to the tweet I've linked)

this is the dumbest take I've seen in a long time, so I'm gonna go ahead and ignore this random tweeter.

l appreciate your perspective, though

Click to shrink...

so wait because of one tweet you're gonna ignore a whole chain or cited, sourced criticisms?

 

[GottaBelieve]

so wait because of one tweet you're gonna ignore a whole chain or cited, sourced criticisms?

Click to shrink...

I read it.

a lot of it is, at its best, overstated,

I take this seriously, i want to make the best choice I can. But this specific twitter thread has a remarkably clear bias.

i try to ignore that and take the facts as they are, but in this case it's hard to ignore

 

[peyrin]

I really think Biden or Warren will get it in the end. Sanders at this point i support the most but I'm genuinely concerned he will auto-lose to Trump.

Click to shrink...

what about sanders makes him guaranteed to auto-lose compared to biden or warren?

 

[eosos]

He really isn't

Click to shrink...

I'm v confused. Are you saying he's not a good candidate because he served in the military

 

[Fat4all]

I'm v confused. Are you saying he's not a good candidate because he served in the military

Click to shrink...

its a thread, which means there's multiple tweets linked together in there connected to the top tweet

 

[3bdelilah]

I went from being interested in his views to despising him. He is polling 0% with blacks and 2% with Latinos. His "Douglass plan" is a mockery and he can't keep his own house in order.

I really think Biden or Warren will get it in the end. Sanders at this point i support the most but I'm genuinely concerned he will auto-lose to Trump.

Click to shrink...

How auto-lose? If anything I'd say it's the other way around. I'm afraid he'll lose the primary to Biden or Warren, but if Bernie were to win the nominee, he'd be the best to take on Trump compared to Biden and Warren, many polls have shown this.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

Mayo Pete is trash. Is shocking no one went after him during this debate. These things are such a waste of everyone's time.

 

[Reverse Giraffe]

I totally forgot about this.
Did anyone have a breakout moment?
I guess I'll have to listen to the next FiveThirtyEight politics podcast.

 

[nelsonroyale]

The hell do people see in Pete? He's the male version of Klob. Boring. Uninspiring.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. he is probably the reason Beto went out early. He's white and comes across as fairly bland / harmless, and occupies the democratic middle ground that Obama did. I find him rather bland and interesting in political terms, but I suppose that appeals to people's inherent conservatism in various forms.

 

[Deleted member 6230]

Agreed. he is probably the reason Beto went out early. He's white and comes across as fairly bland / harmless, and occupies the democratic middle ground that Obama did. I find him rather bland and interesting in political terms, but I suppose that appeals to people's inherent conservatism in various forms.

Click to shrink...

I think people like him very superficial non-substantive reasons. "He's smart! He reminds me of Obama! He speaks in complete sentences!"

 

[Something Creative]

https://mobile.twitter.com/niktaylorde/status/1195457863436685314

(it seems I don't know how to embed tweets but I'm referring to the tweet I've linked)

this is the dumbest take I've seen in a long time, so I'm gonna go ahead and ignore this random tweeter.

l appreciate your perspective, though

Click to shrink...

I read it.

a lot of it is, at its best, overstated,

I take this seriously, i want to make the best choice I can. But this specific twitter thread has a remarkably clear bias.

i try to ignore that and take the facts as they are, but in this case it's hard to ignore

Click to shrink...

"dumbest take I've seen in a long time"
"remarkably clear bias"

Can you go on? There is a lot in that thread, much of it disqualifying (for a Democratic candidate for president), and it is generally well sourced. Seems like you want to discredit it completely without giving the least bit of evidence as to why.

 

[eebster]

"dumbest take I've seen in a long time"
"remarkably clear bias"

Can you go on? There is a lot in that thread, much of it disqualifying (for a Democratic candidate for president), and it is generally well sourced. Seems like you want to discredit it completely without giving the least bit of evidence as to why.

Click to shrink...

That twitter thread doesn't even mention the whole faking dozens of black endorsements stuff which he should've been grilled for in the debate but the media loves him so obviously he wasn't

 

[nelsonroyale]

I think people like him very superficial non-substantive reasons. "He's smart! He reminds me of Obama! He speaks in complete sentences!"

Click to shrink...

Agreed. And oops, i meant 'uninteresting in political terms'. Also, he may come across as articulate, which may seem astonishing in an era of Trump. But really, it is not that big of a browny point. it is a super low bar.

 

[Goat Mimicry]

I wish someone would call Klobuchar out on being an abusive monster to her staff.

 

[Lord Fagan]

I wish someone would call Klobuchar out on being an abusive monster to her staff.

Click to shrink...

The kind of person with the gall to do this will likely suffer a real or fictitious attack from a former staffer of their own within hours.

This football got tossed around for a couple news cycles and it got little reaction. There's plenty of other much more important things going on that they don't have time to talk about, like climate change.

 

[DiscoShark]

Didn't watch all of it but came away satisfied with the way Pete performed, pending his performance in some key early states I think I've pretty much solidified my choice for him when the primaries roll around. Hopefully he can break into places that aren't just Iowa.

 

[BADMAN]

Didn't watch all of it but came away satisfied with the way Pete performed, pending his performance in some key early states I think I've pretty much solidified my choice for him when the primaries roll around. Hopefully he can break into places that aren't just Iowa.

Click to shrink...

Out of curiosity, who's your second choice?

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Biden's "You have to keep punching at violence toward women" was the best thing of the night.

I can't believe his senile butt is in the lead.

 

[DiscoShark]

Out of curiosity, who's your second choice?

Click to shrink...

My ranking would go something like ...

1. Pete
2. Sanders
3. Warren

Warren was my number 1 until her healthcare plan roll-out but I have concerns about Sander's age, especially after the heartattack scare. If the two combined into a single ticket they'd make for a more compelling package.

I'll vote for whoever gets the nomination v. Trump at the end of the day though.

 

[Moppeh]

I stopped watching after the first hour. Did I miss anything important?

 

[lmcfigs]

I don't understand why the pro-Bernie media is making up these random attacks that make no sense and are largely fabricated.

Just attack him on experience and race... pretty simple and not made up.

"Pete is in the pocket of fossil fuels" and "Pete wants to send troops to Mexico" are largely just... total lies?

Click to shrink...

Huh? Is Latino rebels a Bernie supporting group? Because this was an attack Tulsi made. I'm not sure what Bernie or his supporters have to do with this.

 

[sgtnosboss]

I am not watching another debate till its at least down to 5 people. It is kind of a joke to keep giving so many of the people spotlight that haven't so far, and wont in the future, be able to raise their %.

 

[xenocide]

I stopped watching after the first hour. Did I miss anything important?

Click to shrink...

The collapse of Joe Biden.

Or at least the collapse of his debate performance.

 

[Dr. Lucien Sanchez]

https://mobile.twitter.com/niktaylorde/status/1195457863436685314

(it seems I don't know how to embed tweets but I'm referring to the tweet I've linked)

this is the dumbest take I've seen in a long time, so I'm gonna go ahead and ignore this random tweeter.

l appreciate your perspective, though

Click to shrink...

It's kind of a relatively well sourced thread tho. And if, for example, nothing here concerns you at all, then I don't think anything would really convince you otherwise.

 

[Blue Skies]

I stopped watching after the first hour. Did I miss anything important?

Click to shrink...

Second hour was more entertaining
Booker had a moment
Tulsi and Pete had a scuffle
Overall, this debate only benefited: Bernie, Pete, Booker, and IMO Steyer

 

[jack_package_200]

Also how come no one could land a successful hit on Pete? Garbage tried but he actually clowned on her.

 

[Blue Skies]

Also how come no one could land a successful hit on Pete? Garbage tried but he actually clowned on her.

Click to shrink...

Hedging for VP in case he gets the nom

 

[Moppeh]

Second hour was more entertaining
Booker had a moment
Tulsi and Pete had a scuffle
Overall, this debate only benefited: Bernie, Pete, Booker, and IMO Steyer

Click to shrink...

Thanks guys, I'll probably check out the rest today.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

Apparently Yang plays D&D, he's got my vote.

seriously though it's still Bernie.

 

[GottaBelieve]

"dumbest take I've seen in a long time"
"remarkably clear bias"

Can you go on? There is a lot in that thread, much of it disqualifying (for a Democratic candidate for president), and it is generally well sourced. Seems like you want to discredit it completely without giving the least bit of evidence as to why.

Click to shrink...

I was referring to the tweet I linked( which seems to have been deleted?)not the thread about Pete. The thread is indeed well sourced

Edit: I see what you meant. I'll get back to you on that as I am at work

 

[Deleted member 58401]

Agreed. And oops, i meant 'uninteresting in political terms'. Also, he may come across as articulate, which may seem astonishing in an era of Trump. But really, it is not that big of a browny point. it is a super low bar.

Click to shrink...

You would think, but half the candidates can barely speak. Biden, Kamala, Klob. But, generally, it's pretty condescending to say his allure is only because white how well he speaks.

It's basically minorities, Era, and Sanders fans who hate Pete. The real world doesn't read Jacobin or give a fuck about McKinsey. Most people don't know what that is.

He will remain in the thick of things until at least Super Tuesday. It would be more productive to shit on his policies than his use of a stock photo, if the goal is to sway people.

 

[Deleted member 4346]

Mayor Pete can suck a fuck, so let's get that out of the way.

I too was disappointed that no one crushed the flimsy narratives around Buttigieg last night. The debates are his strong suit for sure but the other front-runners didn't go at him directly. That's a mistake.

I do have to say, though, what's Pete's realistic path to victory? He has no black or brown support. None. The man's record on race as a mayor is fucking beyond abysmal and black America finds him unpalatable. Even if he can get some early wins in white states Buttigieg is not going to pull black voters from Biden, Sanders, and Warren.

 

[Seattle6418]

Also how come no one could land a successful hit on Pete? Garbage tried but he actually clowned on her.

Click to shrink...

I sincerely don´t think he clowned on her because he brought up Assad. Of course her attack was kind of weak, but his response was in the vein of whataboutism, that´s never a good answer. I don´t think that the future president saying he won´t talk to dictators is a good policy idea, the world is full of them.

We should despise them, but it doesn´t mean we won´t engage in conversations.

 

[nelsonroyale]

You would think, but half the candidates can barely speak. Biden, Kamala, Klob. But, generally, it's pretty condescending to say his allure is only because white how well he speaks.

It's basically minorities, Era, and Sanders fans who hate Pete. The real world doesn't read Jacobin or give a fuck about McKinsey. Most people don't know what that is.

He will remain in the thick of things until at least Super Tuesday. It would be more productive to shit on his policies than his use of a stock photo, if the goal is to sway people.

Click to shrink...

Well that is the point. His policies are a watered down Medicare proposal...nada substantive on progressive taxation, subsidies for solar and wind energy, some mumblings about more principled foreign policy, but nothing substantive in terms of dealing with Saudia Arabia, Palestine-Israel, etc. He isn't that interesting in policy terms, other than he seems to be positioning himself as a heir to Obama's cleancut presentation and aspirational rhetoric with only moderately progressive policy positions.

 

[Tfritz]

imo it was bad for gabbard to meet with assad and come back spewing his talking points, especially when she was not in a position to do Diplomacy on the level of the president of the united states

 

[Blue Skies]

Just the fact that some random mayor from bumfuck Indiana has managed to get this far, makes me think he knows what he's doing and that his current support shouldn't hold much value compared to the support he'd gain if he wins Iowa.

The same thought basis we use for saying Warren would rise if she won Iowa, or that Biden would sink when he loses Iowa, should be applied to Pete IMO.

 

[jack_package_200]

I don't think any of this field is ready for the big time.

 

[ChrisR]

Polling the next few days should be interesting to see...

 

[Blue Skies]

Iowa Democratic primary results since 1980:

1980 (January 21): Jimmy Carter (59%) and Ted Kennedy (31%)

1984 (February 20): Walter Mondale (49%), Gary Hart (17%), George McGovern (10%), Alan Cranston (7%), John Glenn (4%), Reubin Askew (3%), and Jesse Jackson (2%)

1988 (February 8): Dick Gephardt (31%), Paul Simon (27%), Michael Dukakis (22%), and Bruce Babbitt (6%)

1992 (February 10): Tom Harkin (76%), "Uncommitted" (12%), Paul Tsongas (4%), Bill Clinton (3%), Bob Kerrey (2%), and Jerry Brown (2%)

1996 (February 12): Bill Clinton (98%), "Uncommitted" (1%), and Ralph Nader (1%)
2000 (January 24): Al Gore (63%), and Bill Bradley (37%)

2004 (January 19): John Kerry (38%), John Edwards (32%), Howard Dean (18%), Dick Gephardt (11%), and Dennis Kucinich (1%)

2008 (January 3): Barack Obama (38%), John Edwards (30%), Hillary Clinton (29%), Bill Richardson (2%), and Joe Biden (1%)[34]

2012 (January 3): Barack Obama (98%), and "Uncommitted" (2%)[23]

2016 (February 1): Hillary Clinton (49.8%), Bernie Sanders (49.6%), and Martin O'Malley (0.5%) [35][36]

Since 1996 the winner goes on to be the nom
1992 is an interesting year

 

[Seattle6418]

Just the fact that some random mayor from bumfuck Indiana has managed to get this far, makes me think he knows what he's doing and that his current support shouldn't hold much value compared to the support he'd gain if he wins Iowa.

The same thought basis we use for saying Warren would rise if she won Iowa, or that Biden would sink when he loses Iowa, should be applied to Pete IMO.

Click to shrink...

Let´s not forget that Pete is outspending the next highest candidate 10-1 in TV ads in Iowa.

He´s going all in, and he might be peaking way too early. In times of social media and Internet, being flavor of the month in November is not a good thing.

 

[Blue Skies]

I don't think any of this field is ready for the big time.

Click to shrink...

Then you are imposible to please probably.
There is a candidate on that stage for every type of dem voter

 

[Blue Skies]

Iowa Democratic primary results since 1980:

1980 (January 21): Jimmy Carter (59%) and Ted Kennedy (31%)

1984 (February 20): Walter Mondale (49%), Gary Hart (17%), George McGovern (10%), Alan Cranston (7%), John Glenn (4%), Reubin Askew (3%), and Jesse Jackson (2%)

1988 (February 8): Dick Gephardt (31%), Paul Simon (27%), Michael Dukakis (22%), and Bruce Babbitt (6%)

1992 (February 10): Tom Harkin (76%), "Uncommitted" (12%), Paul Tsongas (4%), Bill Clinton (3%), Bob Kerrey (2%), and Jerry Brown (2%)

1996 (February 12): Bill Clinton (98%), "Uncommitted" (1%), and Ralph Nader (1%)
2000 (January 24): Al Gore (63%), and Bill Bradley (37%)

2004 (January 19): John Kerry (38%), John Edwards (32%), Howard Dean (18%), Dick Gephardt (11%), and Dennis Kucinich (1%)

2008 (January 3): Barack Obama (38%), John Edwards (30%), Hillary Clinton (29%), Bill Richardson (2%), and Joe Biden (1%)[34]

2012 (January 3): Barack Obama (98%), and "Uncommitted" (2%)[23]

2016 (February 1): Hillary Clinton (49.8%), Bernie Sanders (49.6%), and Martin O'Malley (0.5%) [35][36]

Since 1996 the winner goes on to be the nom
1992 is an interesting year

Click to shrink...

Looked into it and the guy who won Iowa in 1992 was a Senator for Iowa. Makes sense why he won.

 

[Deleted member 58401]

Well that is the point. His policies are a watered down Medicare proposal...nada substantive on progressive taxation, subsidies for solar and wind energy, some mumblings about more principled foreign policy, but nothing substantive in terms of dealing with Saudia Arabia, Palestine-Israel, etc. He isn't that interesting in policy terms, other than he seems to be positioning himself as a heir to Obama's cleancut presentation and aspirational rhetoric with only moderately progressive policy positions.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, this. That's more like it. I like his supreme court idea, his national service plan (not the military part - the teach for America and green new deal part), and obviously killing the electoral college, though it won't get done. Public option health care could maybe pass easier than M4A. Otherwise, not much going for him.

Note: I'd vote for him if I have to.

 

[Deleted member 58401]

Looked into it and the guy who won Iowa in 1992 was a Senator for Iowa. Makes sense why he won.

Click to shrink...

There basically wasn't even a caucus that year. Harkin had it from the get go, so candidates focused on the other states. Source: I'm old and live in Iowa.