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Nude scenes of 15-year-old actor in flemish film Girl censored at cinemas in USA. Uncut on Netflix

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,181
Put this way it makes perfect sense to me. But in the end what the trans community in general think of the film is what really matters so we'll see.
True. That’s why I hope the trans community can see this as the cinsere, beautiful film it is, that could lead to more understanding for their struggles and situation.
 
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Deleted member 46641

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 12, 2018
3,494
From my understanding, that's not the point of the scene at all.
I've seen the movie. The surface level point of the scene is to show dysphoria, but the subtext in the filmic language remains.

Granted I might be more sensitive to this stuff, but when you have these trends in nearly every critically acclaimed trans movie of having graphic nudity to make an artistic point, you start to wonder about the subtext. The cis actors playing trans roles make that way more explicit.
 

Skelepuzzle

Member
Apr 17, 2018
6,080
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/04/24/475129558/why-you-probably-shouldnt-say-eskimo

People in many parts of the Arctic consider Eskimo a derogatory term because it was widely used by racist, non-native colonizers. Many people also thought it meant eater of raw meat, which connoted barbarism and violence. Although the word's exact etymology is unclear, mid-century anthropologists suggested that the word came from the Latin word excommunicati, meaning the excommunicated ones, because the native people of the Canadian Arctic were not Christian.

But now there's a new theory. According to the Alaska Native Language Center at the University of Alaska Fairbanks, linguists believe the word Eskimo actually came from the French word esquimaux, meaning one who nets snowshoes. Netting snowshoes is the highly-precise way that Arctic peoples built winter footwear by tightly weaving, or netting, sinew from caribou or other animals across a wooden frame.

But the correction to the etymological record came too late to rehabilitate the word Eskimo. The word's racist history means most people in Canada and Greenland still prefer other terms. The most widespread is Inuit, which means simply, "people." The singular, which means "person," is Inuk.
If you aren't Inuit/An Arctic native it is not a good idea to use that word.
 

Primal Sage

Member
Nov 27, 2017
726
I look forward to the day Christiane F gets a release in US theaters. You guys are going to go absolutely ballistic.

A 13 year old actress playong a 13 year old junkie who sells her body to supply herself with heroin. Her boyfriend is 15 (actor was 14) and sells himself to men.

There are scenes of syringe injections, overdoses, underage prostitution, suicides... and David Bowie. It’s a disgusting but also great movie. And based on real events/characters.

We watched it in school as a warning against doing drugs. It’s quite effective. Makes Trainspotting look incredibly tame.
 

smellyjelly

Avenger
Aug 2, 2018
650
I look forward to the day Christiane F gets a release in US theaters. You guys are going to go absolutely ballistic.

A 13 year old actress playong a 13 year old junkie who sells her body to supply herself with heroin. Her boyfriend is 15 (actor was 14) and sells himself to men.

There are scenes of syringe injections, overdoses, underage prostitution, suicides... and David Bowie. It’s a disgusting but also great movie. And based on real events/characters.

We watched it in school as a warning against doing drugs. It’s quite effective. Makes Trainspotting look incredibly tame.
nah i'm good
 

RedMercury

Member
Dec 24, 2017
8,925
I look forward to the day Christiane F gets a release in US theaters. You guys are going to go absolutely ballistic.

A 13 year old actress playong a 13 year old junkie who sells her body to supply herself with heroin. Her boyfriend is 15 (actor was 14) and sells himself to men.

There are scenes of syringe injections, overdoses, underage prostitution, suicides... and David Bowie. It’s a disgusting but also great movie. And based on real events/characters.

We watched it in school as a warning against doing drugs. It’s quite effective. Makes Trainspotting look incredibly tame.
David Bowie was a pedo so it's not surprising he did a movie like this. I think there are better ways to educate people about drug use.
 

mnz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,435
I look forward to the day Christiane F gets a release in US theaters. You guys are going to go absolutely ballistic.

A 13 year old actress playong a 13 year old junkie who sells her body to supply herself with heroin. Her boyfriend is 15 (actor was 14) and sells himself to men.

There are scenes of syringe injections, overdoses, underage prostitution, suicides... and David Bowie. It’s a disgusting but also great movie. And based on real events/characters.

We watched it in school as a warning against doing drugs. It’s quite effective. Makes Trainspotting look incredibly tame.
Yeah, it's hard to watch but a good movie. Based on a true story, too.

 

Bernd Lauert

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,812
Looks like a classic Europe vs America disparity. I've seen some shocking French movies on Arte which is a state run channel so this example is rather tame.
 

HyperFerret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,134
Regardless of how good the movie is, I don't think I would be comfortable in seeing a minor's naked body in it.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,816
Aye. Dude was an idiot for a bit. Adored Hitler, crafted the pro fascist (possibly uberman inspired) Thin White Dude until he came to his senses. He had a big enough god complex to think nothing of naming his son Zowie Bowie.

I'm not sure if he died holding that belief though, maybe someone should ask his son how he was in more recent times. Don't think he's a racist, just fucking dumb to not link racism, and overall nasty stuff to the Third Reich.

Stay off cocaine kids.
 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
I've seen the movie. The surface level point of the scene is to show dysphoria, but the subtext in the filmic language remains.

Granted I might be more sensitive to this stuff, but when you have these trends in nearly every critically acclaimed trans movie of having graphic nudity to make an artistic point, you start to wonder about the subtext. The cis actors playing trans roles make that way more explicit.
I get where you're coming from. I would need to see this myself as well, so *shrug*
Is it on Netflix atm? Not sure when I could get to the theatres.

That said I have to kinda eyeroll this title change because you can also title this: "Nude scenes of a young transwoman uncomfortable with her body in flemish fillm Girl censored at cinemas in USA. Uncut on Netflix."
And I mean, that is literally an issue a large variety of trans people have. Not everyone trans but it feels like that's an important detail being dismissed in context of the themes/point of the story itself.

I get being skeeved by it and I'm not arguing for just having scenes like this in every movie like it's no big deal but it feels like there's a significant plot/thematic difference here. That said you could show this in different ways without the full-on nudity. I guess it just bothers me because trans people don't get a lot of stories so censoring an aspect of the difficulties that happen is just annoying.
 
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Blizzard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,685

TheFireman

Banned
Dec 22, 2017
3,918
If that's true why not make a thread about it? Davie Bowie has absolutely MASSIVE influence, and people should definitely know if he's a pedophile and possibly a fascist. Hardly anyone is going to see a random blog link in a random thread.
Because most people who like David Bowie know he went fascist and banged underage girls during the 70s. It's not really a secret. There's a reason people call him the Thin White Duke. He also seemed to have stopped doing both activities after sobering up, then passed away 30 years later. I don't think debate on rather or not he did enough to right the wrongs he committed should be shut down, but it's not new ground by any means.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,685
Because most people who like David Bowie know he went fascist and banged underage girls during the 70s. It's not really a secret. There's a reason people call him the Thin White Duke. He also seemed to have stopped doing both activities after sobering up, then passed away 30 years later. I don't think debate on rather or not he did enough to right the wrongs he committed should be shut down, but it's not new ground by any means.
I've literally never seen him called a pedophile before this thread, so I definitely think it's worth a thread to inform people. That's an absolutely massive thing.
 

TheFireman

Banned
Dec 22, 2017
3,918
I've literally never seen him called a pedophile before this thread, so I definitely think it's worth a thread to inform people. That's an absolutely massive thing.
I mean, there were plenty of threads about it on GAF when he died and I think I've seen it come up in almost every thread where Bowie is mentioned.

By all means, start a thread if you want to-it's an interesting discussion topic. But I think you're somewhat overestimating how many people who are into Bowie that don't know he fucked a 15 year old, and you're definitely overestimated how many people who are into Bowie that don't know he had a fascist period.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,685
I mean, there were plenty of threads about it on GAF when he died and I think I've seen it come up in almost every thread where Bowie is mentioned.

By all means, start a thread if you want to-it's an interesting discussion topic. But I think you're somewhat overestimating how many people who are into Bowie that don't know he fucked a 15 year old, and you're definitely overestimated how many people who are into Bowie that don't know he had a fascist period.
I read those threads during that period and thought I knew Bowie, but didn't see either. I don't think I'm qualified to make the thread since I seem to be the least informed, but I definitely think if a high profile person is a pedophile, there should be a thread on it.

weird, because it was seemingly in half the widely-shared posts about him on social media for a few weeks after he died
I don't use Twitter so that's definitely understandable at least.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,511
canada
I've literally never seen him called a pedophile before this thread, so I definitely think it's worth a thread to inform people. That's an absolutely massive thing.
yeah he slept with Lori Mattix who was 15 or so when he was like 21

not unsurprising for the time but awful none the less. She wrote a book about it i believe, she was a sex groupie for many musicians while she was underage including Jimmy Page
 

FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,349
I'd have to actually see the work of art before I could make a judgement. Nudity, even of a youth, doesn't mean it has to be vulgar and/or sexually charged.

I'll echo the sentiments here that this is really feeling like a conflict between the conditioning of US censorship and a more open Europe. Here we can watch a man be tortured, have his hand blown off, then gruesomely executed by cackling villains with shotguns (Robocop, 1987), but you show a man's cock and balls and all hell breaks loose.
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,644
NZ
Looks like a classic Europe vs America disparity. I've seen some shocking French movies on Arte which is a state run channel so this example is rather tame.
When I was a kid Arte had this reputation of being lame, but some of the stuff on there was pretty wild. I remember seeing a movie on there that consisted pretty much entirely of sex scenes, and didn't shy away from showing the actors' genitals lol

Its probably why age of consent is like 12/13 or some shit over there in France
It's 15 (and there are additional laws protecting people under 18).
 
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selo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
935
Is underage nudity (even without sexual tones) considered child pornography?

I remember also American beauty, Thora birch has a scene where she shows her breasts to a guy and I believe she was 16 at the time of filming.
 

game-biz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,222
Really weird that people are uncomfortable about seeing a 15 year old nude. It's a human body. Nudity is such an odd concept.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,018
Really weird that people are uncomfortable about seeing a 15 year old nude. It's a human body. Nudity is such an odd concept.
It's not about the body it's about she's a minor. No one should put a naked minor on screen. Just put an adult actor do nude scenes like they do with a lot of other movies.
 
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OP
OP
Birdseye

Birdseye

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
12,671
It's not about the body it's about she's a minor. No one should put a naked minor on screen. Just iput an adult actress to do nude scenes like they do with a lot of other movies.
Actor

Also, the point is that Lara's body isn't quite adult. She's in the middle of three transformations/transitions
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,018
Actor

Also, the point is that Lara's body isn't quite adult. She's in the middle of three transformations/transitions
yep sorry my bad. Still I'm sure they could find adult models that has a close enough body type than the original actor, and then do some camera work and tricks. It's not unusual.
 

giallo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,400
Shanghai/Seoul/Vancouver
Didn't the best picture winner of 1999 (American Beauty) have a naked 16 year old girl in it (Thora Birch). I think it all comes down to getting permission form the actor's guardian. It's not illegal as far as I know.

At any rate, as long as it's not sexualized, and is pertinent to the plot, I don't see a huge problem with it as long as the parents are around during filming.
 
OP
OP
Birdseye

Birdseye

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
12,671
Didn't the best picture winner of 1999 (American Beauty) have a naked 16 year old girl in it (Thora Birch). I think it all comes down to getting permission form the actor's guardian. It's not illegal as far as I know.

At any rate, as long as it's not sexualized, and is pertinent to the plot, I don't see a huge problem with it as long as the parents are around during filming.
About that:

"Playing a transgender person did not scare me," Victor said to (newspaper) 20 Minutes. My parents were more worried than me but they understood the unique opportunity offered by this film and they did not oppose it. "
Source: https://www.20minutes.fr/arts-stars/cinema/2269775-20180512-festival-cannes-victor-polster-star-girl-eblouissante-revelation-prevenus

My parents also read the script and we immediately realized that there was something special about it. I told myself that if I did not accept this role, I would be missing out on something. This kind of role, you're only offered it once in a lifetime.
http://frenchmania.fr/victor-polster-girl-ce-genre-de-role-on-ne-nous-en-offre-quun-comme-ca-dans-une-vie/
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,846
Didn't the best picture winner of 1999 (American Beauty) have a naked 16 year old girl in it (Thora Birch). I think it all comes down to getting permission form the actor's guardian. It's not illegal as far as I know.

At any rate, as long as it's not sexualized, and is pertinent to the plot, I don't see a huge problem with it as long as the parents are around during filming.
It's been a long time since I've seen American Beauty but I can't remember Thora Birch's character being naked in it. Are you confusing her with Mena Suvari, who was of age?