Nvidia Debuts DLSS 3; October 12th Release; 35+ games will get support

[AndyBNV]

I apologize if my answer wasn't clear.

When a DLSS 3 games comes out, and you own a GeForce RTX 30 Series or 20 Series graphics card or laptop, you can use DLSS 2 Super Resolution in that title.

This is the same Super Resolution technology available in over 200 games and apps.

There's also a benefit for every GeForce RTX GPU: DLSS 3 comes packaged with NVIDIA Reflex, which works on all generations of GeForce RTX GPUs, and also some older GTX series.

So if you own a GeForce RTX 30 or 20 Series, you would get DLSS 2 + Reflex. Even if a game is labelled as a "DLSS 3 Game".

Introducing NVIDIA DLSS 3

Multiply frame rates by up to 4X!

www.nvidia.com

GeForce News: NVIDIA DLSS 3

Supports Over 35 RTX Games & Apps

www.nvidia.com

 

[ILikeFeet]

DLSS 2 and its Super Resolution technology is a key component of DLSS 3.

I can't embed the image here, but here's the link: https://images.nvidia.com/aem-dam/S...phics-innovations/how-nvidia-dlss-3-works.jpg

DLSS Super Resolution is a key part of DLSS 3, is under constant research, and continues to be honed and improved. DLSS Super Resolution updates will continue to be made available for all GeForce RTX GPUs, just as they have been in the past.

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added a threadmark to your post

 

[jao0411]

I apologize if my answer wasn't clear.

When a DLSS 3 games comes out, and you own a GeForce RTX 30 Series or 20 Series graphics card or laptop, you can use DLSS 2 Super Resolution in that title.

This is the same Super Resolution technology available in over 200 games and apps.

There's also a benefit for every GeForce RTX GPU: DLSS 3 comes packaged with NVIDIA Reflex, which works on all generations of GeForce RTX GPUs, and also some older GTX series.

So if you own a GeForce RTX 30 or 20 Series, you would get DLSS 2 + Reflex. Even if a game is labelled as a "DLSS 3 Game".

Introducing NVIDIA DLSS 3

Multiply frame rates by up to 4X!

www.nvidia.com

GeForce News: NVIDIA DLSS 3

Supports Over 35 RTX Games & Apps

www.nvidia.com

Click to shrink...

Good stuff right here.

 

[writhingcorpse897]

2.0 is still supported. 3.0 looks to be a drop-in update


that's with the new RT settings

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Cyberpunk is getting a new RT mode? That's awesome.

Hoping for Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition type of upgrade.

 

[NoWayOut]

I apologize if my answer wasn't clear.

When a DLSS 3 games comes out, and you own a GeForce RTX 30 Series or 20 Series graphics card or laptop, you can use DLSS 2 Super Resolution in that title.

This is the same Super Resolution technology available in over 200 games and apps.

There's also a benefit for every GeForce RTX GPU: DLSS 3 comes packaged with NVIDIA Reflex, which works on all generations of GeForce RTX GPUs, and also some older GTX series.

So if you own a GeForce RTX 30 or 20 Series, you would get DLSS 2 + Reflex. Even if a game is labelled as a "DLSS 3 Game".

Introducing NVIDIA DLSS 3

Multiply frame rates by up to 4X!

www.nvidia.com

GeForce News: NVIDIA DLSS 3

Supports Over 35 RTX Games & Apps

www.nvidia.com

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Alvis]

So Switch 2 will likely not use DLSS 3 right?

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No way. The Switch 2 is gonna use either Turing or Ampere, no way they use Lovelace. So DLSS 2.

 

[Smokey]

I apologize if my answer wasn't clear.

When a DLSS 3 games comes out, and you own a GeForce RTX 30 Series or 20 Series graphics card or laptop, you can use DLSS 2 Super Resolution in that title.

This is the same Super Resolution technology available in over 200 games and apps.

There's also a benefit for every GeForce RTX GPU: DLSS 3 comes packaged with NVIDIA Reflex, which works on all generations of GeForce RTX GPUs, and also some older GTX series.

So if you own a GeForce RTX 30 or 20 Series, you would get DLSS 2 + Reflex. Even if a game is labelled as a "DLSS 3 Game".

Introducing NVIDIA DLSS 3

Multiply frame rates by up to 4X!

www.nvidia.com

GeForce News: NVIDIA DLSS 3

Supports Over 35 RTX Games & Apps

www.nvidia.com

Click to shrink...

Good to know

Should be threadmarked.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I guess I have to throw my 3080 into the dumpster

 

[mavericktopgun]

No way. The Switch 2 is gonna use either Turing or Ampere, no way they use Lovelace. So DLSS 2.

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DLSS 2 should be good enough I guess?

 

[Bungie]

Cyberpunk is getting a new RT mode? That's awesome.

Hoping for Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition type of upgrade.

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Detailed here:

GeForce News: NVIDIA DLSS 3

Supports Over 35 RTX Games & Apps

www.nvidia.com

 

[Alvis]

DLSS 2 should be good enough I guess?

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Yes? Everyone praises it for a reason. The existence of DLSS 3 doesn't retroactively make DLSS 2 worse.

 

[Neoxon]

No mention of RE Engine is surprising. That aside, it's unfortunate that DLSS 3.0 isn't supported for the RTX 3000 GPUs.

 

[writhingcorpse897]

Detailed here:

GeForce News: NVIDIA DLSS 3

Supports Over 35 RTX Games & Apps

www.nvidia.com

Click to shrink...

• NVIDIA RTX Direct Illumination (RTXDI) gives each neon sign, street lamp, car headlight, LED billboard and TV accurate ray-traced lighting and shadows, bathing objects, walls, passing cars and pedestrians in accurate colored lighting
• Ray-traced indirect lighting and reflections now bounce multiple times, compared to the previous solution's single bounce. The result is even more accurate, realistic and immersive global illumination, reflections, and self-reflections
• Ray-traced reflections are now rendered at full resolution, further improving their quality
• Improved, more physically-based lighting removes the need for any other occlusion techniques

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This is pretty cool.

 

[unfashionable]

nice dont care about any of those games being speeded up because I am happy with them 3080 - I just turned off ray tracing in cyberpunk for example for native 4K and dont miss it at all

 

[Blade30]

I apologize if my answer wasn't clear.

When a DLSS 3 games comes out, and you own a GeForce RTX 30 Series or 20 Series graphics card or laptop, you can use DLSS 2 Super Resolution in that title.

This is the same Super Resolution technology available in over 200 games and apps.

There's also a benefit for every GeForce RTX GPU: DLSS 3 comes packaged with NVIDIA Reflex, which works on all generations of GeForce RTX GPUs, and also some older GTX series.

So if you own a GeForce RTX 30 or 20 Series, you would get DLSS 2 + Reflex. Even if a game is labelled as a "DLSS 3 Game".

Introducing NVIDIA DLSS 3

Multiply frame rates by up to 4X!

www.nvidia.com

GeForce News: NVIDIA DLSS 3

Supports Over 35 RTX Games & Apps

www.nvidia.com

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the clarification.
I guess DLSS 2 (Super Resolution) will still be updated then but it's under DLSS 3 now and you'll get limit features on older RTX cards?

 

[unfashionable]

Nvidia is scummy but I doubt they are this scummy, I'm pretty sure upscaling will work fine on the older cards

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yeah long time nvidia GPU buyer that would trigger a FU. ATM I know that 40 series is insanely expensive so its a long time from being worth buying, but I would buy it

Id move to AMD on principle (assumnig their releases deliver)

 

[unfashionable]

Thanks for the clarification.
I guess DLSS 2 (Super Resolution) will still be updated then but it's under DLSS 3 now and you'll get limit features on older RTX cards?

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A bit like how there a mods to put FSR into DLSS games, I bet DLSS3 would run fine on 3 series purely marketing to sell 4 series

 

[ILikeFeet]

A bit like how there a mods to put FSR into DLSS games, I bet DLSS3 would run fine on 3 series purely marketing to sell 4 series

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maybe, maybe not

this optical flow solution was already available as an SDK, but it seems to have been just for video playback. they might have actually needed hardware (or a crazy increase in power) to get it to work for games

Optical Flow SDK

Find resources to detect, track, and compute the relative motion of pixels between images.

developer.nvidia.com

 

[vitormg]

I'm really curious to see input latency with DLSS 3.0.
Just motion clarity is worth the extra frames for sure, but not so much if it increases input latency. It has to at least be the same

 

[ILikeFeet]

I'm really curious to see input latency with DLSS 3.0.
Just motion clarity is worth the extra frames for sure, but not so much if it increases input latency. It has to at least be the same

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input latency decreases as reflex is also added with DLSS3.0

 

[vitormg]

input latency decreases as reflex is also added with DLSS3.0

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What about DLSS 2.0 + Reflex versus DLSS 3.0?

 

[Pottuvoi]

The idea of using motion vectors created by game and another set found by comparing changes between images, is quite ingenious.
Should allow quite nice results.

 

[ILikeFeet]

What about DLSS 2.0 + Reflex versus DLSS 3.0?

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it's the same, you just don't get the frame generation

 

[vitormg]

it's the same, you just don't get the frame generation

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So there's absolutely no penalty input-wise for generating those in between frames? If so, then that's great.

 

[Heraldic]

Nvidia can screw off with their anti-consumer practices. Creating class structures for GPUs and corporate marketing lingo to sell their overpriced "tech" to willing upscale sheep.

 

[ILikeFeet]

So there's absolutely no penalty input-wise for generating those in between frames? If so, then that's great.

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we won't know exactly until it releases. adding reflex might have been a solution to increased latency from frame generation

 

[Green]

Nvidia can screw off with their anti-consumer practices. Creating class structures for GPUs and corporate marketing lingo to sell their overpriced "tech" to willing upscale sheep.

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lol

 

[Vanta Aurelius]

maybe, maybe not

this optical flow solution was already available as an SDK, but it seems to have been just for video playback. they might have actually needed hardware (or a crazy increase in power) to get it to work for games

Optical Flow SDK

Find resources to detect, track, and compute the relative motion of pixels between images.

developer.nvidia.com

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I definitely understand this needing specific hardware acceleration to be usable in games...I also understand that universally allowing a feature that would potentially triple your framerates would make it hard to sell new hardware haha.

Does DLSS quality settings still function with the addition of frame generation?

The sad thing though is that DLSS3 would be fantastic for Quake 2 RTX, unfortunately that game will never directly support DLSS.

 

[ss_lemonade]

It's some crazy extra RT overdrive mode they are adding that goes even beyond the Psycho RT settings currently in the game.

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I see. Didn't know they were updating the game with more visual features. Makes me wonder how it will run then on a 3090 if a 4090 drops down to ~20 FPS in non DLSS situations. I mean the current game already struggles at 4k to even hit 30 FPS with a 3090, so these new RT settings sound like it could drop down to 10 or less FPS lol.

 

[Diablos]

edit: I appreciate the clarification from nvidia

 

[FellowTarnished]

Nvidia really does make it hard to support them. I own an RTX 3080 FE which I paid £700 for, and now you're telling me I can't have access to DLSS 3 only one generation on? That's crazy. And I really dislike how they're selling an RTX 4070 as a 4080, that's beyond scummy, and it should be illegal.

 

[Falchion]

Gotta love that framerate lift. Hope lots more games get support.

 

[SixelAlexiS]

Nvidia really does make it hard to support them. I own an RTX 3080 FE which I paid £700 for, and now you're telling me I can't have access to DLSS 3 only one generation on? That's crazy. And I really dislike how they're selling an RTX 4070 as a 4080, that's beyond scummy, and it should be illegal.

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Yeah, I didn't thought that DLSS 3 would have been exclusive to 4000 series, it's almost like they are gatekeeping stuff to make people buy their new and expensive product... naa they would never make something like this.

 

[Corralx]

Input latency is going to be terrible if you use this. Really seems like something that's more useful for benchmarks than actually playing games.

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Very much this.
With DLSS3 you'll get much higher fps count, but no benefit to input latency.
It's telling that when you enable DLSS3 they'll force Nvidia Reflex on to try and counter this.

 

[Kalik]

how many games will support this new RT Overdrive feature?...sounds like an uber ray tracing mode...I don't see many developers supporting this as very few people will actually be able to take advantage of it...so Overdrive is not anything exclusive to the 4000 series and is just a patch that developers can use to enable a higher level of ray tracing in specific titles?

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

how many games will support this new RT Overdrive feature?...sounds like an uber ray tracing mode...I don't see many developers supporting this as very few people will actually be able to take advantage of it...so Overdrive is not anything exclusive to the 4000 series and is just a patch that developers can use to enable a higher level of ray tracing in specific titles?

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I believe RT Overdrive is simply Cyberpunk 2077's new name for an even more detailed ray tracing mode it implements. Like how the previous high was called "Psycho Ray Tracing". It's supposed to be a themed-name that fits the aesthetic of the game world.

 

[Galava]

how many games will support this new RT Overdrive feature?...sounds like an uber ray tracing mode...I don't see many developers supporting this as very few people will actually be able to take advantage of it...so Overdrive is not anything exclusive to the 4000 series and is just a patch that developers can use to enable a higher level of ray tracing in specific titles?

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RT Overdrive is just a "higher than ultra" setting CD Projekt Red will include in Cyberpunk. It's just that the new stuff 4000 has makes rendering RT more efficiently than previous series, so it's "marketing settings" to sell 4000 as "look at this performance with these settings". Overdrive should work on 2000 and 3000, it just will be slower.

 

[MaLDo]

Yeah, I didn't thought that DLSS 3 would have been exclusive to 4000 series, it's almost like they are gatekeeping stuff to make people buy their new and expensive product... naa they would never make something like this.

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In fact, it's like this: DLSS 3 is not exclusive to 4000. You can use it in 30 and 20 series. But into DLSS 3 there is a framerate upscaler integrated that doesn't work below 40 series because "it needs different hardware" or "it's so heavy that enabling it in previous series is a detriment to framerate". That's all.

Maybe you can found a way to move DLSS 2 to GTX shaders but enabling it in a GTX gpu would be a detriment to framerate instead of an improvement.

Now imagine if 40 series Tensor cores were identical to the 30 series and you couldn't run any better things than the existing ones. What's the point of a new series? Normally when a new series is only an improvement in performance, we tend to criticize that they have not tried very hard. However, when they push themselves on all fronts, we complain that they leave previous series behind. They can never win.

The price is crazy, that's a fact.

 

[Kalik]

I believe RT Overdrive is simply Cyberpunk 2077's new name for an even more detailed ray tracing mode it implements. Like how the previous high was called "Psycho Ray Tracing". It's supposed to be a themed-name that fits the aesthetic of the game world.

Click to shrink...

RT Overdrive is just a "higher than ultra" setting CD Projekt Red will include in Cyberpunk. It's just that the new stuff 4000 has makes rendering RT more efficiently than previous series, so it's "marketing settings" to sell 4000 as "look at this performance with these settings". Overdrive should work on 2000 and 3000, it just will be slower.

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I didn't realize it was only for Cyberpunk...I thought other games might use it as well...is RTX Direct Illumination (RTXDI) used in this new Overdrive version a better version of RT Global Illumination?...I wonder if a 3080 will be able to handle it at 1440p 60+ FPS (with DLSS 2.1)

 

[SixelAlexiS]

In fact, it's like this: DLSS 3 is not exclusive to 4000. You can use it in 30 and 20 series. But into DLSS 3 there is a framerate upscaler integrated that doesn't work below 40 series because "it needs different hardware" or "it's so heavy that enabling it in previous series is a detriment to framerate". That's all.

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I guess is too soon to see if it's really justified or do you think it checks out?

 

[tatwo]

Will DLSS 2.x still get updates? Or does 3.x development benefit 2.x also?

 

[MaLDo]

I guess is too soon to see if it's really justified or do you think it checks out?

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I look forward to Digital Foundry's review.

Things that I need to know:

- Input lag added compared to native and compared to DLSS2
- Artifacts. They depend on the resolution, the speed of movement?
- Is there a parameter to handle the number of frames made up? This is very useful because depending on the game we will look for one effect or another. James Cameron has thought a lot about this topic and that's why Avatar Remastered has different configurations depending on the scene (TruCut motion HFR)
- How does it behave with judder and stuttering
- How does it behave with variable framerates

 

[Pottuvoi]

I didn't realize it was only for Cyberpunk...I thought other games might use it as well...is RTX Direct Illumination (RTXDI) used in this new Overdrive version a better version of RT Global Illumination?...I wonder if a 3080 will be able to handle it at 1440p 60+ FPS (with DLSS 2.1)

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RTXDI is for direct illumination.

Render Millions of Direct Lights in Real-Time With RTX Direct Illumination (RTXDI) | NVIDIA Technical Blog

In 2021, we will be bringing this technology to game developers as RTX Direct Illumination, or RTXDI.

developer.nvidia.com

It can be used with RTXGI / DDGI etc. (Which I'm quite sure they use now for GI.)

 

[ILikeFeet]

Here's the new stuff added in Cyberpunk's new overdrive RT settings

• NVIDIA RTX Direct Illumination (RTXDI) gives each neon sign, street lamp, car headlight, LED billboard and TV accurate ray-traced lighting and shadows, bathing objects, walls, passing cars and pedestrians in accurate colored lighting
• Ray-traced indirect lighting and reflections now bounce multiple times, compared to the previous solution's single bounce. The result is even more accurate, realistic and immersive global illumination, reflections, and self-reflections
• Ray-traced reflections are now rendered at full resolution, further improving their quality
• Improved, more physically-based lighting removes the need for any other occlusion techniques

GeForce News: NVIDIA DLSS 3

Supports Over 35 RTX Games & Apps

www.nvidia.com

 

[Deleted member 12317]

There's 1400 Tensor cores in the Ada chip and "only" 320 in Ampere and 130 in Turing.

If they added that much it's because it's needed to run DLSS 3's Optical Flow (frame prediction to avoid latency ?).
That's why it can't run on previous cards, not enough Tensor Cores (and if it could, it wouldn't be as powerful as doubling FPS).

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[DjDeathCool]

I really really like Nvidia's AI tech and is one of the big reasons I stick with their cards... That being said their problematic strategy of artificially out dating cards immediately after a new series releases is a big big problem for me and on full display here. Fuck these guys. My card will be outdated as fuck before it's even paid off and the hardware won't be the issue.

 

[elyetis]

I really really like Nvidia's AI tech and is one of the big reasons I stick with their cards... That being said their problematic strategy of artificially out dating cards immediately after a new series releases is a big big problem for me and on full display here. Fuck these guys. My card will be outdated as fuck before it's even paid off and the hardware won't be the issue.

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Why is it considered artificial / not hardware related ?

 

[Paganmoon]

thing is, VR does something similar with async reprojection, specifically in low frame rate situations where it uses motion vectors of your head movement (basically camera movement) and warps the previous frame to create a new one. I think on Oculus side, it even estimates motion of the pixels on screen to make the reprojected image take into account depth. And it does this with no extra hardware required. it's literally something used for low performance systems.

obviously this isn't exactly the same, but demonstrably similar things have been done before without the need for specialized hardware.

And VR is if anything more prone to notice bad frames, or things looking off.

 

[DjDeathCool]

Why is it considered artificial / not hardware related ?

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Drivers are the big thing. Lots of time Nvidia almost immediately stops optimizing cards from previous series after launching new cards and that creates huge gaps in performance between previous cards and new ones that are less performant.

I don't fully trust Nvidia couldn't have brought improvements to DLSS without gating them behind the 40 series because of their history with this sort of thing.

 

[elyetis]

thing is, VR does something similar with async reprojection, specifically in low frame rate situations where it uses motion vectors of your head movement (basically camera movement) and warps the previous frame to create a new one. I think on Oculus side, it even estimates motion of the pixels on screen to make the reprojected image take into account depth. And it does this with no extra hardware required. it's literally something used for low performance systems.

obviously this isn't exactly the same, but demonstrably similar things have been done before without the need for specialized hardware.

And VR is if anything more prone to notice bad frames, or things looking off.

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But how is it different from DLSS 2 where FSR 2 shows that something similar can be done without the need for specialized hardware, it's only artificial if there isn't real benefit ( performance or quality ) to that specialized hardware.