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NVIDIA RTX 20 Series Reviews

Pargon

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,014
Durante said:
That has not been my experience.
I've been using it since they added in support for monitors with Adaptive Sync, and the only issues I encountered were that I had to exclude some applications (e.g. the Unity editor) from variable refresh at the driver level. But all the games I played in that time period work with borderless windowed mode + G-sync -- though admittedly that's just some indie games and Monster Hunter World.
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Are you running Windows 10 1803 or newer? I know you have previously said that you intentionally stayed a couple of versions behind on Windows updates.

For me, it has been like this ever since the 1803 update (about a year old now) even after NVIDIA's supposed driver fix.


Monitor refresh rate is displayed in the upper-right with RTSS stats displayed across the bottom to show that the frame rate is consistent.
Note that absolutely nothing is happening in-game, it's just a menu, but windowed-mode G-Sync has large fluctuations in the refresh rate despite the frame rate being capped via RTSS.

Most games that I play seem to be affected by this, and it renders anything without an exclusive output completely unplayable for me as I get severe motion sickness from the stuttering it causes.
Indie games have been especially problematic for me, since few Unity games offer an FSE output any more.
 
Dictator

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
Not to be that guy, but tomorrow (not today) I will have an interview video that is 50 mins long with the people who implemented ray tracing in Shadow of the Tomb Raider from Nixxes and NV. I think that is relevant to people in this thread!
 
Lakeside

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,218
FaintDeftone said:
Do you all think it's smart to upgrade to an RTX card right now if I have a 1070 and I game at 1440p? I just rebuilt my PC this weekend (upgraded from a 4790k to a 8700k and DDR4 RAM) and now my 1070 feels old in comparison to the rest of the hardware, haha. However, I was thinking about waiting until next year to see if prices drop or new Ti models come out. If I bite I was eyeballing the 2070. Thoughts?
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If you want the performance now there are always sub $500 2070's in the US. I'll never understand the calls to wait. There is always something better coming next.
 
Durante

Durante

Dark Souls Man
Member
Oct 24, 2017
5,074
Pargon said:
Are you running Windows 10 1803 or newer? I know you have previously said that you intentionally stayed a couple of versions behind on Windows updates.

For me, it has been like this ever since the 1803 update (about a year old now) even after NVIDIA's supposed driver fix.


Monitor refresh rate is displayed in the upper-right with RTSS stats displayed across the bottom to show that the frame rate is consistent.
Note that absolutely nothing is happening in-game, it's just a menu, but windowed-mode G-Sync has large fluctuations in the refresh rate despite the frame rate being capped via RTSS.

Most games that I play seem to be affected by this, and it renders anything without an exclusive output completely unplayable for me as I get severe motion sickness from the stuttering it causes.
Indie games have been especially problematic for me, since few Unity games offer an FSE output any more.
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I'm actually on 1809 now, since I needed to update to at least 1803 anyway for Turing drivers.

My only real test scenarios that I played for any length of time in borderless adaptive sync and where I actually drop significantly below the maximum are MHW, RPCS3 and Outward, and in all of those I don't have the issue you describe. Outward has some fluctuating frame time problems but those happen even without G-sync.
MHW is probably the best example - it has really consistent frame times at 65-85 FPS depending on the level in my case, and borderless G-sync works perfectly in that.
 
golem

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
Dictator said:
Not to be that guy, but tomorrow (not today) I will have an interview video that is 50 mins long with the people who implemented ray tracing in Shadow of the Tomb Raider from Nixxes and NV. I think that is relevant to people in this thread!
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Oh wow cant wait. Dont think i've seen too much publicly from Nixxes out there, those people are wizards.
 
Pargon

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,014
Durante said:
I'm actually on 1809 now, since I needed to update to at least 1803 anyway for Turing drivers.

My only real test scenarios that I played for any length of time in borderless adaptive sync and where I actually drop significantly below the maximum are MHW, RPCS3 and Outward, and in all of those I don't have the issue you describe. Outward has some fluctuating frame time problems but those happen even without G-sync.
MHW is probably the best example - it has really consistent frame times at 65-85 FPS depending on the level in my case, and borderless G-sync works perfectly in that.
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Unfortunately I don't have any of those games to do a comparison.
If a game like MHW is running at 65–85 FPS, I would try capping it to 60 FPS with RTSS and using a controller to pan the camera at a fixed rate.
What I would expect to see is that Borderless Mode displays large fluctuations in the refresh rate and stutters badly despite RTSS' framerate/frame time graph looking perfect, with Full-Screen Exclusive Mode behaving as you would expect.
I've tested this on two separate machines, with 900-series and 1000-series GPUs (but the same 3440x1440@100Hz PG348Q display).

I suppose what I need to do is start making a list of affected games, since it may not be affecting everything after all (just everything that I have tried so far).
There's a 52-page topic about this over on the GeForce forums, so it's definitely a real issue, but no-one seems to be able to get NVIDIA's attention about it, as they seem to consider it fixed (initially the 1803 update prevented windowed-mode G-Sync from activating at all). I've basically given up on it until the 19H1 update is released.
 

Waikipedia

Member
Oct 26, 2017
126
Anyone else had black screen crash issue?
When I'm gaming on my projector connected through HDMI, sometimes the HDMI connection would shut off and the Projector won't be recognised anymore. The only way to fix it is by restarting the pc.
Didn't have this issue before with 1080ti.

I also doubt it's the PJ's issue since a restart would fix it.

I've done some googling and seems like there's a lot of black screen issues with 2080ti.
 
Puck

Puck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57
Waikipedia said:
Anyone else had black screen crash issue?
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I had a black screen issue when updating graphics drivers just recently. The computer was still functioning though, it just wouldn't output a picture. Rebooted and got an image on screen, albeit a very low resolution one, and it gave me a 'restart to finish installing driver' message, and I haven't had the issue since. Probably the first thing to try after updating drivers is swapping the HDMI cable, fingers crossed it's just something cheap and easy to replace like that. Good luck with it.

I hope they release the Quake 2 RTX build they showed off recently. The older pathtracing one is online, but not the newer RTX one with all the extra graphical bells and whistles.
 

Waikipedia

Member
Oct 26, 2017
126
Puck said:
I had a black screen issue when updating graphics drivers just recently. The computer was still functioning though, it just wouldn't output a picture. Rebooted and got an image on screen, albeit a very low resolution one, and it gave me a 'restart to finish installing driver' message, and I haven't had the issue since. Probably the first thing to try after updating drivers is swapping the HDMI cable, fingers crossed it's just something cheap and easy to replace like that. Good luck with it.
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Yeah, when the black screen issue happens it just goes back to my first display and there I can restart my PC.

Seems to be a fairly common issue
https://forums.geforce.com/default/...h-rtx-2080-ti-after-restarting-pc/?offset=170
 
Puck

Puck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57
Waikipedia said:
Yeah, when the black screen issue happens it just goes back to my first display and there I can restart my PC.
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Hmmm. I just plugged a third monitor in, and it's randomly going black for 5-10 seconds at a time, maybe every 20 minutes it happens, and then will do it a few times in a row, and then it'll be fine for another 20 minutes. Not effecting the other two monitors. I'm not sure what the cause is yet, but I never had that issue on my previous 1060 3gb.
 

Waikipedia

Member
Oct 26, 2017
126
Puck said:
Hmmm. I just plugged a third monitor in, and it's randomly going black for 5-10 seconds at a time, maybe every 20 minutes it happens, and then will do it a few times in a row, and then it'll be fine for another 20 minutes. Not effecting the other two monitors. I'm not sure what the cause is yet, but I never had that issue on my previous 1060 3gb.
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Yep, my system was that bad when I had just installed my card. Had to do a lot of restarts and windows ended up getting corrupted at one point.
After the reformat, it's more stable, but I still have the black screen crash every now and then. I think having only one display plugged in at a time helps.
 
copelandmaster

copelandmaster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,935
If the "super" thing happens to be a Turing Tegra/a new Shield, it would be cool to see them run an ARM version of Quake 2 RTX on it.

Suddenly, raytracing will be the hype new thing to whole bunch of people Nintendo fans.
 
gabdeg

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,962
🐝
GI is never a waste. My guess is they'll use it for reflections. Judging from the footage there should be plenty of reflective surfaces especially in that city map,
 
Dictator

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
icecold1983 said:
with fixed TOD in small linear levels, real time ray traced GI is not a smart use of large amts of gpu budget
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I disagree. As Metro shows, it is super important for composition of dynamic objects and moving ones. Also getting indirect shadows from moving objects is massive.

As I say that though, I bet it is reflections given this games art and reliance on baked lighting as is. That is more or less plug and play over the SSR!
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
Dictator said:
I disagree. As Metro shows, it is super important for composition of dynamic objects and moving ones. Also getting indirect shadows from moving objects is massive.

As I say that though, I bet it is reflections given this games art and reliance on baked lighting as is. That is more or less plug and play over the SSR!
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dont these games contain very little in the way of dynamic objects? only the enemies right?
 
Sinder

Sinder

Banned
Jul 24, 2018
7,576
Dictator said:
I disagree. As Metro shows, it is super important for composition of dynamic objects and moving ones. Also getting indirect shadows from moving objects is massive.

As I say that though, I bet it is reflections given this games art and reliance on baked lighting as is. That is more or less plug and play over the SSR!
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I want every FPS to use the GI Metro did after playing it. It's just so damn immersive combined with HDR.
 
dgrdsv

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,879
Tech: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare features a new engine delivering an immersive and photo-realistic experience. The new technology utilizes the latest advancements in visual engineering, including a physically-based material system allowing for state-of-the-art photogrammetry, a new hybrid tile based streaming system, new PBR decal rendering system, world volumetric lighting, 4K HDR, DirectX Raytracing (PC) and more, as well as a new GPU geometry pipeline. Spectral rendering delivers thermal heat radiation and infrared identification for both thermal and night-vision in-game imaging. The technical investment made provides a cutting-edge animation system and blend shape system, while the new suite of audio of tools allows for full Dolby ATMOS support, on supported platforms, along with the latest in audio simulation effects.
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Sounds like CODMW might use mesh shaders? Would be wild considering that they are not even in DX spec yet - or maybe MS is planning on adding them in Win10 1909?
 
Vash63

Vash63

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,681
dgrdsv said:
Sounds like CODMW might use mesh shaders? Would be wild considering that they are not even in DX spec yet - or maybe MS is planning on adding them in Win10 1909?
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Not necessarily mesh shading, but that would be awesome. And they can probably use Nvidia's proprietary NVAPI in the meantime until Microsoft adds support (Or you know, they could just use Vulkan which has it without any proprietary APIs... but nah, let's just use the closed Microsoft solution).
 
dgrdsv

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,879
Vash63 said:
Not necessarily mesh shading, but that would be awesome.
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What else fits the moniker of a "new GPU geometry pipeline"?

Vash63 said:
And they can probably use Nvidia's proprietary NVAPI in the meantime until Microsoft adds support (Or you know, they could just use Vulkan which has it without any proprietary APIs... but nah, let's just use the closed Microsoft solution).
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Sure but that's something which AAA studios usually try to avoid. And they won't be using Vulkan since they're mentioning DXR there. Also NV's mesh shaders Vulkan extension is proprietary too so in a sense it's kinda the same as with D3D12+NVAPI.
 
Vash63

Vash63

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,681
dgrdsv said:
What else fits the moniker of a "new GPU geometry pipeline"?

Sure but that's something which AAA studios usually try to avoid. And they won't be using Vulkan since they're mentioning DXR there. Also NV's mesh shaders Vulkan extension is proprietary too so in a sense it's kinda the same as with D3D12+NVAPI.
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1. Could be a custom solution done in compute, or even a reference to other geometry related improvements like instancing.
2. That isn't true at all, mesh shaders in Vulkan are not proprietary, they're open extensions for any vendors to implement. Nvidia is the only implementation right now, but they're also the only ones with hardware that supports it. They're even listed on the core documentation specs.

Also, it's not something AAA studios try to avoid. Just from established studios (not counting community efforts like DXVK or Quake 2), you have: DOTA2, Talos Principle, Serious Sam 1-3, War Thunder, GRID Autosport, Mad Max, DOOM 2016, Wolfenstein 2, Warhammer 40k: Dawn of War III, Doom VR, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Total War: Thrones of Britannia, TW:Warhammer 2, TW:Three Kingdoms, Strange Brigade, X4, Rage 2 and Detroit: Become Human. Plus upcoming stuff like DOOM Eternal and Star Citizen.
 
gabdeg

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,962
🐝



CoD:MW 2019 will get DXR support. Interesting to see them call it DirectX raytracing, so probably entirely their own implementation and no RTX partnership.

If this continues my 2080 Ti, which I bought primarily for 4K60 output, won't see much of it in the future because of all these raytraced games. Not that I'm complaining ofc.
 
kostacurtas

kostacurtas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,063
Greebman said:
CoD:MW 2019 will get DXR support. Interesting to see them call it DirectX raytracing, so probably entirely their own implementation and no RTX partnership.

If this continues my 2080 Ti, which I bought primarily for 4K60 output, won't see much of it in the future because of all these raytraced games. Not that I'm complaining ofc.
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Your GPU is absolutely compatible with DXR and of course the best possible solution right now as it is the best dedicated ray tracing consumer product.

The advantage of DXR is that can run also on some non RTX GPUs (but with much worse performance in comparison to RTX GPUs).

DXR. This industry standard API uses compute-like ray tracing workloads that are compatible with both dedicated hardware units, such as the RT Cores, and the GPU's general purpose shader cores.
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geforce-rtx-gtx-dxr-supported-gpus-march-2019-850px.png
 
gabdeg

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,962
🐝
kostacurtas said:
Your GPU is absolutely compatible with DXR and of course the best possible solution right now as it is the best dedicated ray tracing consumer product.

The advantage of DXR is that can run also on some non RTX GPUs (but with much worse performance in comparison to RTX GPUs).
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I just meant that I'm probably not going to run any raytraced games at 4k60, which was originally the reason I wanted to get a GPU this gen. But I'm not complaining since raytracing rips.
 

icecold1983

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,243
dgrdsv said:
What else fits the moniker of a "new GPU geometry pipeline"?


Sure but that's something which AAA studios usually try to avoid. And they won't be using Vulkan since they're mentioning DXR there. Also NV's mesh shaders Vulkan extension is proprietary too so in a sense it's kinda the same as with D3D12+NVAPI.
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could just be GPU based culling, which is new for the COD series but has been used by other developers for some time
 
Galava

Galava

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,080
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