NX Gamer: PS5 Full Spec Analysis | A new generation is Born

[Deleted member 1003]

What gap do yo refer to exactly? The minor (20%) GPU gap or the 125% IO speed gap?

When will people understand the biggest difference between these to machines is, BY FAR, the SSD?

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Even with this, no one is trying to "fill the gap". Sony and MS are doing different things and I like that. It's obvious that third party games will probably never take true advantage of either machine but it's the exclusives that get people in. The games that Xbox and Sony make will be the difference and how they take advantage of each system will really let them shine.

Instead of a stupid "teraflops!!!" warcry, we should be looking forward to what both systems games.

You don't see Nintendo fans screaming over power.

 

[BitterFig]

"Superior in blunt power", maybe. Not definitively "superior".

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In GPU and CPU it is definitely superior. I mean PS5 GPU is 15% weaker in the best possible scenario. And sure TF is not everything but we have seen countless times that the increase in resolution matches almost exactly the increase in TF.

The only wild card of PS5 is its SSD. I'm sure 1st party will make great use of it. The unknown will be 3rd parties. I think some will try to exploit it, just for the lulz and the media coverage it may bring. Especially if PS5 is market leader.

 

[CosmicBolt]

PS5 is looking like a really amazing console. Excited to see fast loading and streaming in games.

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

Why though? I mean, there isn't that big a gap to close to begin with... so why is it so hard to believe that something that's twice the performance of something else would make some sort of difference?

I'm really curious to hear what benefits people really think that the XSXbetter hardware bits would bring to the table and how they would present.

I mean... its currently beginning to sound like the XSX is like 50% more powerfully something.



Lol... goes to show how informed you are. Variable frequency as sony is doing it with the PS5, is a new thing.

Here's a shocker... even the XBX (and pretty much every other processor out there has a variable frequency. Not like how sony is doing it though.

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Can you please explain how Sony is doing it and how it is different from my PC. I understand that it's not the same but I didn't really understand what Cerny was saying. Something about keeping power the same while letting the frequency handle the rest.

 

[Equanimity]

My main take away from learning more about the PS5 and XSX is that next-gen will blow our fudging minds. These machines are incredibly powerful and will help devs realise their wildest dreams.

 

[Sunlight]

You mean the can prioritise the frequency to GPU or CPU IF it becomes constrained beyond the ceiling level of the capped rates. This is exactly what happens now, to have a dual mode option for develoers to choose from (ala Switch) is not new but I will be interested in seeing this option and just what the delta's are. Thanks for sharing this which I assume came from a Dev source then?

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PS5 GPU has higher frequency than xsx. How does the 2.23 GHz impact overall performance?

 

[gofreak]

If the PS5 can use more memory for games, that can certainly give them an asset quality advantage, but I still haven't seen evidence that Cerny said this.

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Cerny, of course, didn't make any comparisons with XSX. But he discussed the principle of the relationship between storage IO and memory usage:

On PS4, game data on the hard drive feels very distant, and difficult to use. By the time you realise you need a piece of data, that's much too late to go out and load it, so system memory has to contain all the data that could be used in the next 30 seconds or so of gameplay. That means, a lot of the 8GB of system memory is idle. It's just waiting there to be potentially used.

On PS5, though, the SSD is very close to being more like more RAM. Typically it is fast enough that when you realise you need a piece of data, you can just load it from the SSD and use it. There's no need to have lots of data parked in system memory, waiting to potentially be used. A different way of saying that is that most of RAM is working on the game's behalf. This is one of the reasons why 16GB feels right for PS5 - the presence of the SSD reduces the need for a massive intergenerational increase in size.

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The slide by way of example, compared to the 30 second window on PS4, talked about 1 second window on PS5 (I assume that's some example case - I presume it varies in reality by game type). He talked elsewhere, with some specific numbers, on examples of how a game could load 4GB (compressed) of fresh assets per half second as a player turns around.

In terms of a XSX comparison here, the question is how much data in a given game you would want to keep 'parked' in memory for future use vs how much you would want to keep parked in memory on PS5, to what extent the IO differences influence that, and what that means for in-use, 'active' asset quality on each.

That's a very difficult question to answer in the hypothetical. But the principle of how there could be a difference there exists, I guess.

 

[Wollan]

A good companion piece to the video in the OP is NXGamer's take on the 9TF PS5 GPU rumor when it dropped in December:




"...1950 mhz is very, very high for a GPU anyway, let alone an APU in a closed console box..."
"...faster than a 5700XT...it's just not theoretically possible unless the box is going to be very expensive...[2000hz] is just too dangerous for a consumer product..."

Hehe.
Sony flipping the power & frequency relationship on its head made this craziness possible (since cooling & power supply can be much more targeted & lean).

 

[Sprat]

PS5 GPU has higher frequency than xsx. How does the 2.23 GHz impact overall performance?

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Faster processing of rasterization, shading etc

Not sure how rt works on rdna2 other than the cu handles it but it could potentially be affected by clockspeed too

 

[Deleted member 41520]

In GPU and CPU it is definitely superior. I mean PS5 GPU is 15% weaker in the best possible scenario. And sure TF is not everything but we have seen countless times that the increase in resolution matches almost exactly the increase in TF.

The only wild card of PS5 is its SSD. I'm sure 1st party will make great use of it. The unknown will be 3rd parties. I think some will try to exploit it, just for the lulz and the media coverage it may bring. Especially if PS5 is market leader.

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Again, that comes down to blunt power, not definitive "superiority" for development or performance.

The PS5 GPU has a bunch of unique built in instruments that may vastly improve performance, which XSX doesn't have (nor anyone for that matter) . For example an entire chip dedicated to on-the-fly optimisations (e.g. culling all pollies on reverse surfaces, all pollies that are side-on, combining pollies that are similar, etc). There was a whole other chip dedicated to similar optimisations but I forget what this was. The Xbox Series X has no such in-built GPU systems, IIRC. It has impressive instruments but they were more about providing options for users and developers rather than optimising the actual workload (e.g. working HDR on BC games (definitely cool) and also offering a raytracing tool).

Indeed, it's still up in the air whether only first party exclusive developers will make use of these really cool GPU instruments Sony developed. But from how Cerny described them, it sounds almost like it would simply be a "switch" that developers can flip as long as their assets/architecture can be read by the GPU. And if it works, and is that easy, it'll immediately make a ton of graphical load and performance optimisations automatically.

Perhaps that'll make up for that 15% raw GPU power difference. Perhaps not. We have to wait and see.

But again, the clear message from tech and development spheres is that "raw power" does not mean "superior", be it in GPU or CPU or whathaveyou.

 

[Dictator]

Again, that comes down to blunt power, not definitive "superiority" for development or performance.

The PS5 GPU has a bunch of unique built in instruments that may vastly improve performance, which XSX doesn't have (nor anyone for that matter) . For example an entire chip dedicated to on-the-fly optimisations (e.g. culling all pollies on reverse surfaces, all pollies that are side-on, combining pollies that are similar, etc). There was a whole other chip dedicated to similar optimisations but I forget what this was. The Xbox Series X has no such in-built GPU systems, IIRC. It has impressive instruments but they were more about providing options for users and developers rather than optimising the actual workload (e.g. working HDR on BC games (definitely cool) and also offering a raytracing tool).

Indeed, it's still up in the air whether only first party exclusive developers will make use of these really cool GPU instruments Sony developed. But from how Cerny described them, it sounds almost like it would simply be a "switch" that developers flip and as long as their assets/architecture can be read by the GPU. And if it works that smoothly, it'll immediately make a ton of graphical load and performance optimisations automatically.

Perhaps that'll make up for that 15% raw GPU power difference. Perhaps not.

But again, the clear message from the technical and development side is that "raw power" does not mean "superior", be it in GPU or CPU or whathaveyou.

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Everything you just typed, is wrong. Please inform yourself better. 'GPU instruments'. What?
Hate to break it to you, but MS actually has demonstrated more GPU Features than Sony has, all which are for maximising GPU resources smartly, not brute forcing things. That is the point of inline ray tracing, the mesh shader, vrs, and Sampler Feedback. Things that they have detailed extensively.

I hope Sony also take the time to describe their GPU Features as rigorously as MS did.

 

[Thatguy]

The more people I hear it from the more apparent it becomes that Sony designed their asses off with this console. It's inspired engineering on their part, and shows they have a dman good idea of where game design is headed. I'm sure that's helped by having their finger on the pulse of some of the most technically gifted studios, and their own industry pedigree with people like Mark Cerny in positions of leadership.

Shame they couldn't find a way to articulate fucking none of that in their presentation, despite Cerny's enthusiasm.

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Yeah its taken several industry analysts to explain it instead of Sony themselves. Perhaps it was by design but of course the initial tf comparison knee jerk gave them a bad look (maybe still does) that could have been avoided.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

Everything you just typed, is wrong. Please inform yourself better. 'GPU instruments'. What?
Hate to break it to you, but MS actually has demonstrated more GPU Features than Sony has, all which are for maximising GPU resources smartly, not brute forcing things. That is the point of inline ray tracing, the mesh shader, vrs, and Sampler Feedback. Things that they have detailed extensively.

I hope Sony also take the time to describe their GPU Features as rigorously as MS did.

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By "instruments" I just mean tools or systems, whatever dafuq you wanna call them. It's semantics.

I watched two breakdowns of XSX tech and two of PS5 tech, and I didn't hear any such features as I described in the XSX ones. In that post I simply paraphrased exactly what Cerny said in the Road to PS5 video, about the GPU's built-in systems to lighten load and make optimisations for developers on-the-fly.

If that's incorrect or I'm missing half the picture, now worries, point me to some good info on XSX's systems.

I've got no skin in this game. Just trying to explain why "brute power" is a really poor way to evaluate the consoles.

 

[ILikeFeet]

culling all pollies on reverse surfaces, all pollies that are side-on, combining pollies that are similar, etc)

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backface culling has been a thing forever

and it sounds like the other stuff is what mesh shaders are

 

[Deleted member 41520]

backface culling has been a thing forever

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I know that, Cerny wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't some newer or improved solution.

and it sounds like the other stuff is what mesh shaders are

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So what XSX has? Cool. Point me to the reading. I never saw anything on that.

 

[space_nut]

Everything you just typed, is wrong. Please inform yourself better. 'GPU instruments'. What?
Hate to break it to you, but MS actually has demonstrated more GPU Features than Sony has, all which are for maximising GPU resources smartly, not brute forcing things. That is the point of inline ray tracing, the mesh shader, vrs, and Sampler Feedback. Things that they have detailed extensively.

I hope Sony also take the time to describe their GPU Features as rigorously as MS did.

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Yup! MS's Velocity Architecture is going to be incredible :) details coming soon per dev

From AMD :

• New gaming experiences with seamless content paging from the SSD to the GPU based on the revolutionary Xbox Velocity Architecture

Sampler Feedback Streaming (SFS) – A component of the Xbox Velocity Architecture, SFS is a feature of the Xbox Series X hardware that allows games to load into memory, with fine granularity, only the portions of textures that the GPU needs for a scene, as it needs it. This enables far better memory utilization for textures, which is important given that every 4K texture consumes 8MB of memory. Because it avoids the wastage of loading into memory the portions of textures that are never needed, it is an effective 2x or 3x (or higher) multiplier on both amount of physical memory and SSD performance

Game changer.

MS found a genius way for game assets streaming to not only bet on fast SSD but genius a software / hardware combination.


100Gb of Game assets instantly.

I'm sure in Open world games XSX will have advantages.


Sony bet on ultra fast SSD for game assst streaming
MS create a new innovative architecture Hardware/Software with Velocity architecture.


Also XSX has 10GB of ram with 560Gb/s for visual,textures etc... this is massive ! And 3,5GB with 336Gb/s for secondary things.

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[gremlinz1982]

'The PS5 is a console built by developers for developers.'

Horrible statement when you consider what Microsoft has been doing when it comes to communicating with developers, having tools that look at the workflow around development environment an building towards strengths while reducing weaknesses. Heck, even the complaint about the split RAM is something they talked to developers about.

 

[BitterFig]

Again, that comes down to blunt power, not definitive "superiority" for development or performance.

The PS5 GPU has a bunch of unique built in instruments that may vastly improve performance, which XSX doesn't have (nor anyone for that matter) . For example an entire chip dedicated to on-the-fly optimisations (e.g. culling all pollies on reverse surfaces, all pollies that are side-on, combining pollies that are similar, etc). There was a whole other chip dedicated to similar optimisations but I forget what this was. The Xbox Series X has no such in-built GPU systems, IIRC. It has impressive instruments but they were more about providing options for users and developers rather than optimising the actual workload (e.g. working HDR on BC games (definitely cool) and also offering a raytracing tool).

Indeed, it's still up in the air whether only first party exclusive developers will make use of these really cool GPU instruments Sony developed. But from how Cerny described them, it sounds almost like it would simply be a "switch" that developers can flip as long as their assets/architecture can be read by the GPU. And if it works, and is that easy, it'll immediately make a ton of graphical load and performance optimisations automatically.

Perhaps that'll make up for that 15% raw GPU power difference. Perhaps not. We have to wait and see.

But again, the clear message from tech and development spheres is that "raw power" does not mean "superior", be it in GPU or CPU or whathaveyou.

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Are you talking about the Geometry Engine? Wasn't this said to be standard RDNA feature? Time will tell I guess, but if really there was any differentiator rendering-wise that could make up for this 15+% deficit, I think they would have spent more time on said feature than on discussing ear canals.

 

[Philippo]

From what I get, is that even if 3rd party multiplatform games will not take full advantage of PS5/XsX features (either because of too many differences or to cater to lower denominators like Lockhart or cross-gen), both consoles are still powerful enough to have those multiplat games run extremely well both visuals and performance wise, am I correct?
And that both consoles will be more powerful and with less bottlenecks than current-gen where at the same point in their lifecycles when upgrades where needed?

 

[ILikeFeet]

I know that, Cerny wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't some newer or improved solution.

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if there was some newer implementation, we'd probably have heard about it by now through research papers

So what XSX has? Cool. Point me to the reading. I never saw anything on that.

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from 2019


2018


yesterday

 

[elzeus]

Everything you just typed, is wrong. Please inform yourself better.

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[Zedark]

Everything you just typed, is wrong. Please inform yourself better. 'GPU instruments'. What?
Hate to break it to you, but MS actually has demonstrated more GPU Features than Sony has, all which are for maximising GPU resources smartly, not brute forcing things. That is the point of inline ray tracing, the mesh shader, vrs, and Sampler Feedback. Things that they have detailed extensively.

I hope Sony also take the time to describe their GPU Features as rigorously as MS did.

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Hi Alex, I was wondering what you think about the SSD speeds. Both are going to be a paradigm shift in rendering I think, since the SSD speeds are absolutely massive. I'm curious if devs will be able to max out the IO throughput of the XSX during gameplay (as opposed to when first loading). Will it even be possible for them to populate the scenes with enough data to need to load in new data at the rate of 2.4 GB/s from the SSD? Even with 4K textures, it sounds like a massive amount to fill out to me.

Spoiler

I understand if you don't want to weigh in on this issue, btw. Things get... heated in these threads, and the SSD utilisation is at the forefront of the wars (in part due to the fact that we don't know how much of the SSD speed can reasonably be utilised in any one scene).

Both systems look incredibly strong, being at the top end of what is currently available. It should make for a great generation in terms of graphics and game design (thanks to that massive IO throughput bump for both systems and the sizable CPU boosts). Myself, I'm probably waiting to see if the Lockhart is real, since my gaming setup will feature a 1080p screen for the foreseeable future, and a cheaper 4TF machine would fit right in there (assuming it features comparable CPU and SSD speed as its big brother - Lockhart preferably shouldn't mean a compromised (meaning framey or less elaborate in terms of world population) gaming experience imo, just one at a lower resolution). Hopefully you guys at DF heard about that one correctly!

 

[SolidSnakeBoy]

Judging by the numbers on their memory and storage solutions. I would predict that Xbox will have the better looking/running multiplatform games. The PS5 games that utilize the SSD will probably be able to be much larger or more detailed as they are on a different league of capabilities on streaming assets. I do wonder if this is their rationale for running the higher frequency solution, it will be interesting to see how well devs on their first party can utilize it. Very exciting to consider the possibilities and I for one look forward to better level design.

 

[Era of not Yakuza]

b-b-but... my teraflops!!!!


Dude, seriously.

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Also the "gap" he talks is 15-17%
Ps5 in life support, need more damage control

 

[Philippo]

Judging by the numbers on their memory and storage solutions. I would predict that Xbox will have the better looking/running multiplatform games. The PS5 games that utilize the SSD will probably be able to be much larger or more detailed as they are on a different league of capabilities on streaming assets. I do wonder if this is their rationale for running the higher frequency solution, it will be interesting to see how well devs on their first party can utilize it. Very exciting to consider the possibilities and I for one look forward to better level design.

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When people say this, what are their expectation of the general gap between the two? Are we talking about one being reconstructed 4K vs native 4K (a neglible difference imho), 30fps vs 60fps, or High graphical details vs Ultra? As a non tech person it's hard to understand what people mean by better looking/running...

 

[Era of not Yakuza]

Do we have something more concrete? A developer source?
Michael (NX Gamer) has been working as a software & hardware engineer for a long time and is well versed.

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I belive NXgamer did not say that it would be only 50mhz, it was someone here in this thread.

 

[Convasse]

Even with this, no one is trying to "fill the gap". Sony and MS are doing different things and I like that. It's obvious that third party games will probably never take true advantage of either machine but it's the exclusives that get people in. The games that Xbox and Sony make will be the difference and how they take advantage of each system will really let them shine.

Instead of a stupid "teraflops!!!" warcry, we should be looking forward to what both systems games.

You don't see Nintendo fans screaming over power.

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Why would Nintendo fans be screaming over power? When is the last time Nintendo was even directly competing with Xbox and PlayStation? Bringing them up doesn't seem to fit in with the specs discussion going on around two 9th generation consoles mate.

 

[Super Moorad]

I can't believe people (including NXGamer) are arguing with/trying to teach the Digital Foundry folks on how these consoles work. Some are even doubting what they are sharing with us. What kind of madness are we going through right now?

 

[Fafalada]

That is the point of inline ray tracing, the mesh shader, vrs, and Sampler Feedback. Things that they have detailed extensively.

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Actually a fair bit of it is obfuscated behind DX abstractions rather than detailing GPU features. RT in particular is an area where AMD GPU provided feature set is remarkably simple (and flexible) and DXR right now just makes it ... lesser.

DF people if they could shed some light on the differences between the lossless compression asics and the respective algorithms these asics implement, Kraken vs BCPack and Zlib but it seems no one wants to have that discussion as it seems to be too technical and unpopular.

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I may be overly cynical here but I really dislike people distilling lossless coders to % numbers as the ratios are far more dependent on input data than they are on the coder itself. The whole '2x' improvement should really be taken with a giant grain of salt - for both consoles, most of the time. That said Sony has a wider selection of Codecs available to best of my understanding, which should mean higher ratios overall since you can customize for the input more.
Also, last I recall(and people can be free to correct me, my memory isn't what it used to be) BCPack isn't so much a different encoder as it is a data-partitioning scheme using LZ derivates (but it could really use anything with the same method), so if you have LZ or other Codecs in the ASIC you could BCPack your data anyway if you find a benefit for it.

 

[Fafalada]

When people say this, what are their expectation of the general gap between the two?

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Regardless of what they are, they're overblown.
If you look at the pattern - inside-generation delta has been getting consistently smaller with each passing cycle in last 20 years, but each set of smaller differences generates more noise somehow. We have a remarkable capacity for moving our own goal-posts here, I guess that's our hobby-passion at play.

 

[SolidSnakeBoy]

When people say this, what are their expectation of the general gap between the two? Are we talking about one being reconstructed 4K vs native 4K (a neglible difference imho), 30fps vs 60fps, or High graphical details vs Ultra? As a non tech person it's hard to understand what people mean by better looking/running...

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I do not think they will sacrifice frames generally as that just makes a version easily inferior and they are not far apart, probably will use PS5 as base for that. I would guess resolution will be where they will put that difference and it will probably be not much more than the 4K scenario you described.

 

[TKM]

You are def on to something Here. Because DDR3 on the low end transfers at 6.4 GB/s high end 12.4GB/s
PS4 SSD is 5.5GB uncompressed vs up to 8-9 GB compressed.
They absolutely could follow the same model they had for the PS4 Pro.

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Looks like the PS4 Pro uses two 512MB DDR3 SDRAM:

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/PlayStation+4+Pro+Teardown/72946

Samsung K4B4G0846E 512 MB DDR3 SDRAM

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https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/dram/ddr3/K4B4G0846E-BYK0/

Not fast at all, what's the bandwith for two chips, 3.2 GB/sec?

 

[SolidSnakeBoy]

Regardless of what they are, they're overblown.
If you look at the pattern - inside-generation delta has been getting consistently smaller with each passing cycle in last 20 years, but each set of smaller differences generates more noise somehow. We have a remarkable capacity for moving our own goal-posts here, I guess that's our hobby-passion at play.

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I agree. For most game's purposes the gap in the specs here is meaningless. We will only see a difference in the 1st party and that is hard and ultimately silly comparison to make. I do think Sony has given their first party a significant amount of flexibility with the SSD, if they can effectively utilize it we will all win as it will prompt universal adoption of this type of architecture in the next cycle.

 

[E.Balboa]

People are treating MS' solution to SDD as a failure not seeing it's already a 50x increase to what is current available. Not sure twice that is gonna make a world of difference to compensate for all the other PS5 shortcomings, but we'll see eventually.

 

[jroc74]

Even with this, no one is trying to "fill the gap". Sony and MS are doing different things and I like that. It's obvious that third party games will probably never take true advantage of either machine but it's the exclusives that get people in. The games that Xbox and Sony make will be the difference and how they take advantage of each system will really let them shine.

Instead of a stupid "teraflops!!!" warcry, we should be looking forward to what both systems games.

You don't see Nintendo fans screaming over power.

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Exactly. Some ppl could learn something from Nintendo fans.

Regardless of what they are, they're overblown.
If you look at the pattern - inside-generation delta has been getting consistently smaller with each passing cycle in last 20 years, but each set of smaller differences generates more noise somehow. We have a remarkable capacity for moving our own goal-posts here, I guess that's our hobby-passion at play.

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Thank you.

And only going by tf, its smaller still, and the story doesn't end there.

I saw a post comparing the SSD in the PS5 to esram in the og XBO, One S, lol.

The only thing I could see as a better comparison is Sony sticking with 36 cu's.

The difference between 2013 and now is the SSD in the PS5 offers waaaaaay more upside vs esram. But...some ppl are only looking at 'but muh tf.'

I have a feeling some ppl are going to be surprised by what the PS5 can do.

 

[platocplx]

People are treating MS' solution to SDD as a failure not seeing it's already a 50x increase to what is current available. Not sure twice that is gonna make a world of difference to compensate for all the other PS5 shortcomings, but we'll see eventually.

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who is treating it as a failure? it seems more that on paper in this instance the PS5 solution is just superior. either way having SSD as a base changes how games are designed considerably.

 

[Dictator]

Actually a fair bit of it is obfuscated behind DX abstractions rather than detailing GPU features. RT in particular is an area where AMD GPU provided feature set is remarkably simple (and flexible) and DXR right now just makes it ... lesser.

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That is the point of 1.1 yes, the flexibility increase? That is how everything I have seen about it Details it, and how AMD detailed it.
MS also Detailed how devs can elect to go beyond dxr 1.0 and 1.1 spec if they want and do offline bvh construction and 'to the metal' usage of the Hardware RT. We detailed that in our og article.

 

[rokkerkory]

I can't believe people (including NXGamer) are arguing with/trying to teach the Digital Foundry folks on how these consoles work. Some are even doubting what they are sharing with us. What kind of madness are we going through right now?

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Some folks are highly emotional right now and trying to find any narrative to fit their agenda or align with their console of choice. 2013 or 2006 all over again.

 

[SolidSnakeBoy]

People are treating MS' solution to SDD as a failure not seeing it's already a 50x increase to what is current available. Not sure twice that is gonna make a world of difference to compensate for all the other PS5 shortcomings, but we'll see eventually.

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It is not a bad solution at all! A rising tide lifts all boats up as they say. But the PS5 is twice as this and has had the whole storage pipeline designed to minimize bottlenecks. This enables the total amount of assets that can be swapped to be twice as large, that is a big deal in how games can be designed. I do agree that both systems will enable new ways to design games, but the PS5 is in a different league if effort and money is poured into utilizing it.

 

[nullZr0]

Its amazing that the small difference in performance last Gen was blown way out of proportion, but all of a sudden people want to be reasonable and level-headed. This is a welcome change, albeit hypocritical.

 

[Calverz]

It is not a bad solution at all! A rising tide lifts all boats up as they say. But the PS5 is twice as this and has had the whole storage pipeline designed to minimize bottlenecks. This enables the total amount of assets that can be swapped to be twice as large, that is a big deal in how games can be designed. I do agree that both systems will enable new ways to design games, but the PS5 is in a different league if effort and money is poured into utilizing it.

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Bottom line will be this.

Ps5 great for new 1st party games.
For everything else, xsx. 3rd parties, bc support etc

 

[SolidSnakeBoy]

Its amazing that the small difference in performance last Gen was blown way out of proportion last Gen, but all of a sudden people want to be reasonable and level-headed. This is a welcome change, albeit hypocritical.

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I think most people were outraged at the initial fact that the weaker console had a higher price than the stronger console (Kinect and other features not withstanding). That is not likely to be the case here and I think most people realize that.

 

[Fafalada]

That is the point of 1.1 yes, the flexibility increase?

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It's progress - we'll see how it goes in the future. Personally I think multiple bounce setup still looks cumbersome at best.
But yes, like I said in other posts, I expect creative uses will actually have to come from developer experimentation here, having baseline hardware targets across the board (even in that cheap SKU) will do a lot more for adoption of interesting things than the last 18months of RT have done in PC space.

 

[nib95]

Its amazing that the small difference in performance last Gen was blown way out of proportion, but all of a sudden people want to be reasonable and level-headed. This is a welcome change, albeit hypocritical.

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If the difference last gen was small, than this next gens is insignificant, since the difference in performance between the Xbox One and PS4 was much greater than it is between the Xbox Series X and PS5.

 

[SolidSnakeBoy]

Bottom line will be this.

Ps5 great for new 1st party games.
For everything else, xsx. 3rd parties, bc support etc

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I think we should not be reductive. There is a high chance that devs will just use PS5 as base and the difference will be quite negligible. I also expect Xbox 1st party to utilize their CUs to create interesting games as well. I think it will be a tough generation to just say X or Y is better in most respects.

 

[Lionheart]

I wonder if PC multiplat titles will limit next gen consoles due to having to support standard HDDs. What a time to be alive.

Unless devs make a minimum requirment for some high end SSD (they wont'). Could be interesting in that only exclusives take advantage of the tech.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

3D Audio sounded crazy, too. I can't even begin to understand how that works.

if there was some newer implementation, we'd probably have heard about it by now through research papers

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I don't understand why Cerny would harp on it if there weren't some new implementation or technology at work. Surely not everything in patent papers is noticed... but probably, now that I think of it.

if there was some newer implementation, we'd probably have heard about it by now through research papers


from 2019


2018


yesterday

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Looks cool but not terribly much like what was described for PS5. We haven't received too much deep detail on the PS5 side anyway, so. Just thumbnail so far.

These sort of innovations are gonna inject so much energy into the landscape

 

[Munstre]

I don't understand this though, and its the same argument that we got when the One X came out. Im glad that both parties will now both be competing in the first party department, but why do people pretend that third party doesn't matter? It mattered when PS4 beat out Xbox one in 2013/2014, but it stopped mattering when One X came out and apparently doesn't matter now that XSX has more horsepower.

I'd say playing 90% of my library in higher resolutions, frame-rates and with better assets is a big deal. Especially now that the CPU gap has widened we will almost definitely see frame rate discrepancies in multi-plats. When Xbox one was down on specs, it mattered alot, when Xbox took the lead in specs (particularly the GPU), the GPU and resolution stopped mattering and frame-rates became important, now that XSX has a GPU and CPU advantage for resolution and frame rates, neither matter. To me, this is a big deal for first and third party games and im just confused why anybody would say that it doesn't matter.

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It matters less because firstly: the difference between PS5 and XSX is significantly less than between all previous iterations. Secondly: At these higher resolutions and frame rates, small differences are less noticable, i.e 1080p v 720p compared to 2160p v 1800p. It's becoming barely noticeable to the naked eye. Thirdly: Most people who buy the big multiplats, (i.e GTA, FIFA, COD, etc), don't care about those minor differences, they don't watch DF or read forums. They choose their platform based on other things such as - price, brand loyalty, marketing image, friends choice of console, exclusive content, and so on.
This is why Sony have decided that not having the best versions of multiplats is not a big issue, if they can differentiate their console with their first party games, exclusive features like their custom SSD and 3d audio and VR. Also MS is dedicated to spending whatever amount necessary to always have the biggest numbers on paper going forward so they can market their console as the most powerful; and that's not an arms race that Sony is interested in. They'd rather have a hardware that is smartly and efficiently designed and gives a more than good enough visual experience but also has unique experiences you can't get anywhere else.

 

[Era of not Yakuza]

I can't believe people (including NXGamer) are arguing with/trying to teach the Digital Foundry folks on how these consoles work. Some are even doubting what they are sharing with us. What kind of madness are we going through right now?

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I don't know about nxgamer but this is pretty common every start of a new gen. People get angry, make theories based in nothing, attack each other

 

[nib95]

I belive NXgamer did not say that it would be only 50mhz, it was someone here in this thread.

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I don't think he's definitively saying it'll be 50 MHz, only that on the rare occasion, it could or is likely to be. Partly based on what Cerny himself said about only needing a ~2% frequency clock drop when the system hits its set power limit, a tiny drop of which would claw back a huge amount of power (10%). Based on that, NXGamer has calculated 50 MHz.