Florida was never going blue with a Bernie presidency. I don't know it would go blue with any of the current candidates.
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NY Times: Democratic Leaders Willing to Risk Party Damage to Stop Bernie Sanders
- Thread starter Lunar Wolf
- Start date
Florida was never going blue with a Bernie presidency. I don't know it would go blue with any of the current candidates.
You know as well as I do that voter preferences do not vote on lanes alone. So stop pretending that all moderates together somehow make a full candidate.
I think it would be catastrophic to the party and it would secure a win for Trump for sure. I'm not talking to centrists or lefties or any other pointless moniker. I wish i was talking to the DNC becuase I don't understand the strategy if this is the case. It is obvious who has the momentum going in and to squander that is foolish. Not because its Bernie but because it jeopardizes what is paramount above who the nominee is and that is victory.
Didn't they change the rules specifically to prevent superdelegates from fucking Bernie over?
If the Republicans are right and they successfully wage their campaign propaganda, that would be Bernie's fault.
The rules are a majority for the nomination, not plurality. If it looks like the plurality is all he can get, he should for the sake of the party, negotiate and compromise to get that majority before the 2nd round.
Indeed, moderate House members are worried over overturns due to Bernie, we need to be careful, if we lose the Presidency and the House Majority, we are FUBAR.
If the Republicans are right and they successfully wage their campaign propaganda, that would be Bernie's fault.
The rules are a majority for the nomination, not plurality. If it looks like the plurality is all he can get, he should for the sake of the party, negotiate and compromise to get that majority before the 2nd round.
Indeed, moderate House members are worried over overturns due to Bernie, we need to be careful, if we lose the Presidency and the House Majority, we are FUBAR.
Again, you're saying a minority of voters matter over the majority if Bernie's unable to broker deals with other candidates to get a majority. What does that say about his ability to deal with congress if such a thing happens?
these are all plans in the case there's no majority and every candidate has only a plurality .
I'm with you, FL isn't going blue, it's all grandstanding really.
This is the same establishment that wants it's chosen people to lead, even if it's the worse people. This is why the lost last time. They don't like to be told no or have someone rock the boat, that might end up bad for them, well, fuck'em. Replace them all.
If you have been following them, and your own eyes and ears won't do it for you....
Here fine, go off others.
People tend to believe someone when they tell them what they want to hear, yes.
With SC being what it is, looks like were heading towards a point where were going to find out if us leftists were right to think of the liberal party as an enemy to progress. Articles like this aren't encouraging
I'd rather not have a Bush sympathizer in the white house thank you.
They'll blame Bernie bros. They'll blame Russia. They'll blame Comey. Same shit, different year.
If you approve of this notion, i would like to ask you, who are you going to blame if the dems end up with a landslide loss because of lack of turnout?
If Biden or Bloomberg or whoever gets crushed and the entire world gets 4 more years of Trump, what are you even going to say?
If Biden or Bloomberg or whoever gets crushed and the entire world gets 4 more years of Trump, what are you even going to say?
I mean, if even 10% of Bernie supporters stay home in the general because they feel like the party ratfucked their candidate, that's already likely a bigger difference than the electability bump the Democratic Party would get for any moderate over Bernie. It's just stupid and pointless in this specific election.
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I don't know why it would be. Polling shows that he beats Trump there albeit within the margin of error.
Bernie's biggest strength is actually in the Midwest.
yep. What matters is we honor the choice of a minority of voters and violate rules if it gets us a leftist.
Ya know what I love about this? The validation. For years, getting told that the efforts to curtail anything that helps the poor or middle class in substantial ways as being a damn conspiracy. And now, we're seeing the mask come off this.
This article has put me squarely in the "if Bernie ain't at the top of the ticket, I ain't voting in the GE period" camp.
Fuck around and find out, DNC.
This article has put me squarely in the "if Bernie ain't at the top of the ticket, I ain't voting in the GE period" camp.
Fuck around and find out, DNC.
The Democratic Primary is designed to elect the leader of the party. An effective leader of the party needs to have the support of most of the party. A close plurality isn't enough, the nominee has to have the confidence of all or most of the caucus.
Reducing this essential fact down to "moderate Voltron" is disengenuous.
This is seriously insane.
I knew some would be this stupid but I didn't expect the majority would be this reckless.
To poll 96 out of 700+ members where only 6 would support the plurality winner is mindboggling. Even on a dare I wouldn't bet 70% of dem leadership would be this suicidal but 90%+ apparently are.
Now I hope Sanders gets 49%. They either blink or self immolate. I hope they come to their senses.
I knew some would be this stupid but I didn't expect the majority would be this reckless.
To poll 96 out of 700+ members where only 6 would support the plurality winner is mindboggling. Even on a dare I wouldn't bet 70% of dem leadership would be this suicidal but 90%+ apparently are.
Now I hope Sanders gets 49%. They either blink or self immolate. I hope they come to their senses.
I am? Because I say the person with the most votes should win the nomination? If Biden wins the plurality, he should win the nomination. And no, because you seem to insist, Klobochar and Pete are not Biden so you cannot combine their votes into one.
Are you serious? What is your deal? Why are you painting me like this?
The fracking ban is gonna be a problem for him I think that Trump will exploit.
Unless Pennsylvania magically has a overnight change of spirit, he probably won't win because of his stance on fracking.
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There's probably a scarier problem for them. Perhaps the worse outcome in their minds is if Bernie actually wins.
Just like Trump pulled the party in a direction so will Bernie. And the leaders might not want Bernie to pull them more to the left.
You're assuming that everyone voted for a moderate would be okay with their votes going to another moderate. There are plenty of moderate voters whose second choice is Bernie.
It would be a million times more damaging than 1968 and the dems won just one of the next 6 elections after that. Dems are a death cult now.
Can't wait to relive 1984 if they deny Bernie candidacy despite having a plurality:
The entire country redder than blood.
thats a bad example if you're pro-Bernie . Mondale was super pro-union and being economically progressive.
If Bernie cant convince moderate voters, thats on him.
Or we choose Sanders and it turns out America still hates Socialists and we are steamrolled out of the Executive and Congress.
Its funny people argue this because anyone with less votes than Bernie getting the nom would have a smaller amount of voters/delegates, thus making them the minority vote getting the nom. In no way does that make any sense.
So the solution is to assume someone voting for a moderate would vote Bernie for reasons?
As opposed to honouring the will of nobody by putting up Sherrod Brown or Michelle Obama....?
Every single race in the 1970s/1980s disproves the "GO LEFT AND YOULL WIN EASY" thesis.
Bernie having to make a deal, and in the process being able to jettison positions like this in a way where his hand is "forced" and he can do it while saving face is not a bad thing.
Wow, the political situation today is exactly like it was in 1984. Good thinking.
What's with the rather odd assumption that all the moderate electorate wouldn't have Bernie as their second choice. Weird.
a plurality is still a mandate by the people, to ignore that is a spit in the face of anyone that got out to vote or is planning to vote.
sure Sanders would have to go make a deal if he doesn't have a large lead but a coalition to oppose him would cause damage to the democrats for many elections to come.
sure Sanders would have to go make a deal if he doesn't have a large lead but a coalition to oppose him would cause damage to the democrats for many elections to come.
it's the way things work. It's also how the electoral system works. the idea is by Super Tuesday , Bernie should be securing the primary votes from candidates aligned with him and broker deals to make that happen.
Can you explain how the opposite doesn't hold? If people that voted for Bernie wouldn't vote for the moderate candidate, we're in the same situation.
And yet it seems the entire debate has been about Bernie alienating moderates. How do you feel about moderates alienating progressives?
Based on data Bernie makes up the majority of Biden and Warren voter's second choice.
Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on other than making up a notion that all the moderate voters would push for someone other than Bernie. When that just isn't even close to being true.
So then don't try making an argument about having a minority of voters when that isn't the case.
And ultimately getting pedantic about how the convention works does NOTHING to stop the inevitable collapse of the party if they pull it. Like go ahead and do it. Youre just going to prove everyone right who called this shit for years.
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The solution is to give it to whoever has the most. If you don't you'd piss off your voters. If it's not the lead candidate then you paint whoever you do choose as not the actual will of the people and that will depress party turnout. Trump will easily crush whoever they prop up and plenty of people will not vote for Dem candidates down-ballot out of spite.
It wasn't a statement about the candidates or their platforms.
The best way to avoid this stupidity is to make sure Bernie gets a majority. So get out there y'all. Donate, make calls, knock on doors, make sure your friends and family are registered, etc.
But I will say this just feels like a continuation of the dem's constant need to undermine themselves and let republicans run away with the game. They let them do it with Garland, they let them do it by dragging their feet on impeachment (and continue to fuck this up by not bringing up new articles), and now that they've seen what happens when you have a candidate that's anti-establishment, populist, and can rally the base (you win the election), they want to run away from a slam dunk in favor of Mike fucking Bloomberg.
Let's make sure the party doesn't get what it deserves, but what it needs: an energized democratic base led by workers, people of color, and young voters.
But I will say this just feels like a continuation of the dem's constant need to undermine themselves and let republicans run away with the game. They let them do it with Garland, they let them do it by dragging their feet on impeachment (and continue to fuck this up by not bringing up new articles), and now that they've seen what happens when you have a candidate that's anti-establishment, populist, and can rally the base (you win the election), they want to run away from a slam dunk in favor of Mike fucking Bloomberg.
Let's make sure the party doesn't get what it deserves, but what it needs: an energized democratic base led by workers, people of color, and young voters.
???
What do you even mean by every single race? Every presidential race? Every statewide race?