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Deleted member 3896

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Oct 25, 2017
5,815
And that's not to mention the media trying to both sides everything.

AND Pelosi emerges having shown how effective holding the line can be and walks away with a lesson for Dems overall.

But yeah, she deserves no praise.
 

BlueTsunami

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,510
I wonder if we are brought to the brink again they will preempt the walkout to avoid a repeat of this
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,351
God forbid we actually recognize the power of workers' soldiarity when we can do more cult of personality bullshit.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
Calling out democrat politicians for being neoliberal shills doesn't make someone a "both sides guy".
How the hell is this even relevant to the thread?

Yes, the unions deserve an immense amount of credit for threatening to disrupt the country and forcing Trump to cave. They demonstrated the power organized labor - which the Democratic Party, including Pelosi, supports - can wield.

Pelosi also deserves much credit for, as already stated, refusing to compromise on a racist wall, keeping her caucus united despite jitters from some members, and accurately gauging the direction of public opinion and Trump's own weakness. Praising her and saying she played everything letter-perfect isn't taking a damn thing away from the unions. His post calling her "smarmy" was vague and unnecessary. It wasn't "both sides"; it was just kind of... dumb.
 

Deleted member 925

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Oct 25, 2017
3,711
By "both sides" you mean the fact that I find Stans joyfully circle jerking to memes of Pelosi sitting on the Iron Throne to be the exact same type of dangerous morons who spam "TRUMP GOD KING" 40k memes?

Yeah, that's me.

We've done this shutdown drama all the time.

If either party really wanted to fix this shit they would have.

God bless Pelosi for standing her ground. Not surprised, just like Trump, some Era members can't stand to see a strong woman push back.
 

butzopower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,861
London
I think the issue is the spin of Trump giving in due to his ego around the SOTU rather than the reality of workers being able to shutdown the country if they organize. It focuses it on Trump being hurt emotionally rather than him being fearful.
 

Conciliator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,132
heck yeah go workers

I honesty don't understand why so many are praising Pelosi. She did the bare minimum (stand up to Trump) so...yay, I guess?

I swear some of ya'll actually root against dems and the American left getting any wins or making any progress just because it personally makes for a more compelling narrative for you
 

GK86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,774
Yup, massive kudos to them. I honestly thought it would have taken tax refunds coming in late or food stamps running out for the shutdown to end.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
This this is embarrassing. Not everything has to be a damn fight. No wonder it's so damn easy to divide us. Y'all show it in spades.
 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,523
Not to be cynical but did the workers even do anything, besides a good percentage calling in sick because they figured 'what's the point?' It's not like they were consciously organizing any real resistance, they were just kind of naturally doing what humans do when getting nothing for something.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,086
Arkansas, USA
Not to be cynical but did the workers even do anything, besides a good percentage calling in sick because they figured 'what's the point?' It's not like they were consciously organizing any real resistance, they were just kind of naturally doing what humans do when getting nothing for something.

The flight attendants union threatened to ground flights nationwide until the shutdown ended.
 

joecanada

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
Canada

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
The workers were the straw that broke the camel's back.

The speaker gets credit for not doing the usual Democrat thing of backing down. She was willing to fight it to the end.

If it were entirely up to chuck Schumer that punk would have gave in within 10 hours. He probably would have doubled the amount that dumb cheeto wanted.
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
15,299
How the hell is this even relevant to the thread?

Yes, the unions deserve an immense amount of credit for threatening to disrupt the country and forcing Trump to cave. They demonstrated the power organized labor - which the Democratic Party, including Pelosi, supports - can wield.

Pelosi also deserves much credit for, as already stated, refusing to compromise on a racist wall, keeping her caucus united despite jitters from some members, and accurately gauging the direction of public opinion and Trump's own weakness. Praising her and saying she played everything letter-perfect isn't taking a damn thing away from the unions. His post calling her "smarmy" was vague and unnecessary. It wasn't "both sides"; it was just kind of... dumb.
giphy.gif
 

Tuppen

Member
Nov 28, 2017
2,053
From a European perspective the question that comes to mind is, why did it take so long to achieve a strike/walk out? And how can it be legal for an employer to withhold pay? Isn't that grounds for the employees to sue?
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
"Pelosi has to share in the responsibility with the striking workers" and you interpret that as "you hate women".

Yeah, good look with that creepy Trumpet like personality cult.
But you didn't say that. And no one is saying the workers don't deserve credit. They do.

You called her smarmy and now you're attacking people who disagree with you. It's weird.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
User Banned (3 days): Hostility; history of similar infractions
How the hell is this even relevant to the thread?

Yes, the unions deserve an immense amount of credit for threatening to disrupt the country and forcing Trump to cave. They demonstrated the power organized labor - which the Democratic Party, including Pelosi, supports - can wield.

Pelosi also deserves much credit for, as already stated, refusing to compromise on a racist wall, keeping her caucus united despite jitters from some members, and accurately gauging the direction of public opinion and Trump's own weakness. Praising her and saying she played everything letter-perfect isn't taking a damn thing away from the unions. His post calling her "smarmy" was vague and unnecessary. It wasn't "both sides"; it was just kind of... dumb.


I mean, this is literally what I said.

I just said it more succinct. And less self aggrandizing.

And I called her handling of Trump and the situation smarmy.

And you really upset about that.

Get a life. Or a hobby.
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
But you didn't say that. And no one is saying the workers don't deserve credit. They do.

You called her smarmy and now you're attacking people who disagree with you. It's weird.


"Pelosi doesn't deserve as much credit as the workers" is what I said. And you're really upset about that. It's not a zero sum game but if you want to get creepy and upset that I'm not tripping over myself to praise Pelosi then, well, yeah. I'm not into cult politics.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
You still have one of the worst unionized rates of any first world country so what were the democrats doing when they were in power did they pass any meaningful legislation?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...or-union-membership-infographic/#3767ba7533c0

Just above south Korea .
RTW/not-RTW stuff is done at the state level because of the Constitution.

And Canada's private sector unionization rate is almost on par with the US- the difference is entirely public sector workers.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
You still have one of the worst unionized rates of any first world country so what were the democrats doing when they were in power did they pass any meaningful legislation?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...or-union-membership-infographic/#3767ba7533c0

Just above south Korea .
This take seems a little jejune and misses some of the nuances of the American labor situation.

Democrats have had unified control of government - Democratic president, House, and Senate - for 8 of the last 50 years (1977-81, 93-95, and 2009-11). Otherwise, we've had either a Democratic president and a GOP Congress or vice versa. We haven't been in a position to mount a sustained legislative effort to help organized labor.

Also, much of the assault on unions has occurred at the state level. The 1947 Taft-Hartley Act permitted the states to pass "right-to-work" laws, which have significantly weakened union membership and collective bargaining power. However, not every state has passed such laws. Examine the following graph:
1280px-Right_to_Work_states.svg.png
All of the strong Democratic states - and even some purple ones with strong Democratic presences - have not passed these restrictive laws and still have higher union membership. Why? The Democratic Party still supports unions, and when we have sustained full control of government, we don't screw them over. The patchwork above shows who actually is the enemy of organized labor.

Then we get into the economic changes that would've causes unions to decline regardless of who held power, as they have in other countries (albeit not to the same extent, I will concede), but that would be straying a bit off-topic. I'd be happy to PM if you want to discuss it.
Man I'd hate to see how upset you'd be if someone actually insulted her.
More like I get irritated with people who won't clarify what they mean despite being asked by multiple people.

Also, how was it self-aggrandizement if I was praising someone else?
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,901
By "both sides" you mean the fact that I find Stans joyfully circle jerking to memes of Pelosi sitting on the Iron Throne to be the exact same type of dangerous morons who spam "TRUMP GOD KING" 40k memes?

Yeah, that's me.

What is also you.

Finding any excuse to 'both sides' any and every thread possible?

And outright lie and rewrite history in order to make the Democratic Party look bad?
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
"Pelosi doesn't deserve as much credit as the workers" is what I said. And you're really upset about that. It's not a zero sum game but if you want to get creepy and upset that I'm not tripping over myself to praise Pelosi then, well, yeah. I'm not into cult politics.
Why are you telling other people how they feel about things?

You're calling other people creepy?

Are you for real?
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Why are you telling other people how they feel about things?

You're calling other people creepy?

Are you for real?


I said that the workers deserved more credit than Pelosi. Not that she didn't deserve any credit.

And now I'm getting multi quoted by about four of yall accusing me of hating women, demanding I explain myself, and one dude saying I'm rewriting history.

Yeah, that's a bit on the awkward side at best. Creepy cultish at worst.

I almost called her a Spoony Bard. Boy ya'll would have been HOT over that one.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
I said that the workers deserved more credit than Pelosi. Not that she didn't deserve any credit.

And now I'm getting multi quoted by about four of yall accusing me of hating women, demanding I explain myself, and one dude saying I'm rewriting history.

Yeah, that's a bit on the awkward side at best. Creepy cultish at worst.

I almost called her a Spoony Bard. Boy ya'll would have been HOT over that one.
We're just asking you to show us the smarminess. That's all.

The word, per the dictionary, means "ingratiating and wheedling in a way that is perceived as insincere or excessive." It's not exactly a flattering descriptor. I've just asked you what you meant. When you won't answer, people start inferring what you might mean.
 
Jan 18, 2018
2,579
I said that the workers deserved more credit than Pelosi. Not that she didn't deserve any credit.

And now I'm getting multi quoted by about four of yall accusing me of hating women, demanding I explain myself, and one dude saying I'm rewriting history.

Yeah, that's a bit on the awkward side at best. Creepy cultish at worst.

I almost called her a Spoony Bard. Boy ya'll would have been HOT over that one.
Woah, no need to be smarmy
 

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
15,299
From a European perspective the question that comes to mind is, why did it take so long to achieve a strike/walk out? And how can it be legal for an employer to withhold pay? Isn't that grounds for the employees to sue?
From what I read, you can blame Reagan for busting the previous union by firing EVERYONE and replacing them. It's probably why federal workers have been hesitant to strike for so long. Of course things are different with with unions gaining favorability and the current government being completely unreliable to keep things functional.
 
Oct 25, 2017
523
When the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?
But the union makes us strong!

democrats pass card check and repeal Taft-Hartley you fuckin cowards
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,214
Who was crediting her with ending it? I've not seen any of that. She's being given credit for preventing trump from pulling a victory out of his own shit show but that's different.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,190
Do you think Trump pulls the shutdown nonsense in 3 weeks again?
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
When the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?
But the union makes us strong!

democrats pass card check and repeal Taft-Hartley you fuckin cowards

Democrats definitely unflinchingly support labor, which is why Obama made EFCA one of his highest priorities upon taking office and why prominent Democrats haven't spent years backing charter schools. Oh wait
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Who was crediting her with ending it? I've not seen any of that. She's being given credit for preventing trump from pulling a victory out of his own shit show but that's different.
It's a strawman. It's no surprise given who's pushing it.
I wouldn't say it's a strawman I've definitely seen more that a few people credit her for ending the shutdown. More importantly the piece in the OP is about recognizing that the workers ended the shutdown and less about what Nancy Pelosi did or didn't do.
 

Suiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,931
I said that the workers deserved more credit than Pelosi. Not that she didn't deserve any credit.

And now I'm getting multi quoted by about four of yall accusing me of hating women, demanding I explain myself, and one dude saying I'm rewriting history.

Yeah, that's a bit on the awkward side at best. Creepy cultish at worst.

I almost called her a Spoony Bard. Boy ya'll would have been HOT over that one.

Sexists sure get defensive when called out.