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NYMAG: Glad the Shutdown’s Over? Thank Workers, Not Just Nancy Pelosi

Mercury Fred

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,655
I said that the workers deserved more credit than Pelosi. Not that she didn't deserve any credit.

And now I'm getting multi quoted by about four of yall accusing me of hating women, demanding I explain myself, and one dude saying I'm rewriting history.

Yeah, that's a bit on the awkward side at best. Creepy cultish at worst.

I almost called her a Spoony Bard. Boy ya'll would have been HOT over that one.
Aw, I'm so sorry that you said something that was false and inflammatory and that you were asked about it. But I guess having to have culpability for your words is "awkward" and those asking you to do it is "creepy cultish."
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048

Captjohnboyd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,698
Aw, I'm so sorry that you said something that was false and inflammatory and that you were asked about it. But I guess having to have culpability for your words is "awkward" and those asking you to do it is "creepy cultish."
He's just asking questions man! Why do both sides have to attack everyone all the time?!
sarcasm obviously. The poster is being disingenuous and name calling

I see still can't answer what they meant by smarmy
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,491
From what I read, you can blame Reagan for busting the previous union by firing EVERYONE and replacing them. It's probably why federal workers have been hesitant to strike for so long. Of course things are different with with unions gaining favorability and the current government being completely unreliable to keep things functional.
Unfortunately this is true. Saying "the shut down ended 5 hours after they threatened a strike" isn't really the whole picture. If they did this a month ago, Trump fires them all and hires scabs, who would take those jobs on the assumption that shutdowns aren't usually that long and so it's the easiest job interview of your life for a govt job.

But after a month, Trump wouldn't be able to find the scabs. No one would think the shutdown was ending soon so you won't get any pay if you break the picket line. That's why it worked.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,330
Nah I don't agree with the title and the blurb in the op.


What they did wasn't just logical. Some of them literally had no choice because they are so deep in debt they couldn't afford to waste money on no guarantee of getting more money to survive.


What I do thank them for is for providing valuable services for years that too many of us took for granted as governmental inefficiency. Their services were missed across the country and they had been doing a great job they deserve more credit for doing.
 

SaveWeyard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
Pelosi deserves praise proportional to what she did, which was the bare minimum we should expect from our representatives.

The workers are the real heroes. Put them on a throne if you're going to put anyone there. This tribal mentality built around kissing the boots of our reps needs to stop.
 
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Helio

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,728
Pelosi deserves praise proportional to what she did, which was the bare minimum we should expect from our representatives.

The workers are the real heroes. Put them on a throne if you're going to put anyone there. This tribal mentality built around kissing the boots of our reps needs to stop.
Exactly. She deserves some credit for doing what she was supposed to do, but the workers are the ones who ended it. Five hours after a strike threat, the government caved.
 

junomars

Banned
Nov 19, 2018
723
Its insane that so many people speak of the shutdown like its a thing of the distant past. They still have to write a bill that covers the next 10 months of government. And they have 3 weeks to pass it, with neither side budging an inch off their positions.

This is far from over. Stop celebrating.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,133
New York City
Unions and workers rights are key componants in keeping democracy in the hands of the people who are most effected by it.
 

TSSZNews

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
663
Its insane that so many people speak of the shutdown like its a thing of the distant past. They still have to write a bill that covers the next 10 months of government. And they have 3 weeks to pass it, with neither side budging an inch off their positions.

This is far from over. Stop celebrating.
This.

Trump has shown he’s willing to impose serious pain to get what he wants, I’m not totally convinced he cares about a general strike if we’re at this spot again in 3 weeks (he may well pull a Reagan), and if Pelosi caves on wall funding, which is a distinct possibility, the lot of you will want her head on a platter.

Talk to me when there’s long term funding for the government that doesn’t include a wall. This was a band-aid.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,505
Pelosi deserves praise proportional to what she did, which was the bare minimum we should expect from our representatives.

The workers are the real heroes. Put them on a throne if you're going to put anyone there. This tribal mentality built around kissing the boots of our reps needs to stop.
A lesser Speaker would've caved. Thank her or don't, that's irrelevant. Understanding the power she wields and her role in not capitulating to hostile demands is far beyond the baseline expectation of your average House rep.
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,765
They should be striking right away. Forcing people to work for no pay is a damn shame and not something that any citizen should have to do in this nation. Shift the impact onto the everyday people and you will see change.

I fully support the move and Pelosi did a great job putting her foot down.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,225
God bless Pelosi for standing her ground. Not surprised, just like Trump, some Era members can’t stand to see a strong woman push back.
Yeah, that post history really illuminated why he is so upset with Pelosi being given the credit she is due here. Plenty of credit is given to the workers, everyone knows they were the straw that broke the back here.

I swear some of ya'll actually root against dems and the American left getting any wins or making any progress just because it personally makes for a more compelling narrative for you
Well, they do root against them. The same ones that were both sides'ing shit and crapping on Pelosi are the ones that have been inconsolably bitter these last few days as the Dems locked in a clear victory. Now they are mad and doing anything they can to take away from that victory. They are mad as hell.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
She definitely deserves praise for first trolling Trump into saying he'd own the shutdown, and then for trolling him some more with the State of the Union. Mostly she deserves praise for keeping the other dems in line for the most part. It was the Republicans in the Senate who cracked. But the article isn't wrong, the main reason Trump caved was because of what the workers were (or actually weren't) doing. Hopefully they do the same thing, but quicker, if Trump shuts it down again.
 

junomars

Banned
Nov 19, 2018
723
This.

Trump has shown he’s willing to impose serious pain to get what he wants, I’m not totally convinced he cares about a general strike if we’re at this spot again in 3 weeks (he may well pull a Reagan), and if Pelosi caves on wall funding, which is a distinct possibility, the lot of you will want her head on a platter.

Talk to me when there’s long term funding for the government that doesn’t include a wall. This was a band-aid.

Yeah Trump having to apologize to his base and assuring them he has not caved is not a comforting sign. Knowing that he has support will only embolden him.

Best case scenario seems to be him following thru with the national emergency and allowing Republicans to pass a spending bill without wall money. I think there is definitely someone in his ear that's assured him that this option won't work though and that trying to lean on the Democrats is his best option. Aka shutdown again.
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,656
"Pelosi represented her constituents clearly and powerfully."
"Nu-uh."

For some reason I'm legit surprised to see that the poster I quoted way back got banned for doubling down. I guess I'm just used to seeing worse stuff.
 
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Helio

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,728


There’s enough out there crediting Pelosi with ending the shutdown for it to not be a straw man.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,306
ATC absenteeism is what was the final breaking point. Pelosi being smarmy... not so much.

IRS, ATC and TSA need to walk out if they're pushed into a corner again in three weeks.
*it wasnt ATC, it was all of the other support staff that allow ATC to do their jobs.


Friday morning lack of support staff caused the re-opening imho.

the ATC towers were fully staffed, but they cant do anything if theres only 2 guys towing in and refueling planes
 
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Helio

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,728

Let’s assume that the sickout by the air traffic controllers, followed by the threat of a strike by the flight attendants, really did play a big role in ending the shutdown. How happy are we about that? Plenty of observers have noted that we can cause endless pain to ordinary workers and no one really cares, but produce a minor bit of chaos in our airports and suddenly it gets a ton of attention from reporters, CEOs, lobbyists, and other white-collar types who fly a lot. And once you have their attention, a solution must be found. Pronto.

I dunno. Is this what we want? Do we really want the folks who run our air travel system to have this kind of power? I’m not so sure that would be a great thing.
It is absolutely a great thing. We see where the power truly lies, not with the bosses and the politicians, but with the workers.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,089
Maybe House of Lightning meant "sassy". lol
I don't think the nightmare is quite over yet, but this is a bit of a reprieve and deserves some thanks to all those to stood up against Trump.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,897





It is absolutely a great thing. We see where the power truly lies, not with the bosses and the politicians, but with the workers.
So if actual posters on this forum won't make the arguments you want them to make so you can... do whatever it is you do, you'll just use this thread to respond to some random writer who is making the argument you want to refute as though he's here instead of @ing him on his own damn Twitter.

Okay.
 
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Helio

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,728
So if actual posters on this forum won't make the arguments you want them to make so you can... do whatever it is you do, you'll just use this thread to respond to some random writer who is making the argument you want to refue as though he's here instead of @ing him on his own damn Twitter.

Okay.
This wasn't really a callout thread of era posters, though. And this is just another example of how there are people giving all of the credit to Pelosi. Additionally, it's relevant to the topic and the questions he asks are important and I decided to answer them here.

EDIT: and he's not some random writer on Twitter. He writes for Mother Jones.
 
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junomars

Banned
Nov 19, 2018
723





It is absolutely a great thing. We see where the power truly lies, not with the bosses and the politicians, but with the workers.

I think you've missed the author's point. Its not " the workers", most elites were fine with letting them suffer. Its the people that are necessary to support what the rich need to do, in this case fly.

And honestly this whole conversation is stupid. Its not just Pelosi, or the workforce, or the airports, or Trumps tanking approval or social services collapsing. Its everything. Trump was taking water on all sides and drowning.

I don't know why this idiotic conversation of who gets most credit for a 3 week CR needs to happen when there is still a spending bill that needs to get written. People have fucked priorities.
 
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Helio

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,728
I think you've missed the author's point. Its not " the workers", most elites were fine with letting them suffer. Its the people that are necessary to support what the rich need to do, in this case fly.
Those people are the workers and he doesn't consider it to be a great thing if they have that much power to exert over the elites.

And honestly this whole conversation is stupid. Its not just Pelosi, or the workforce, or the airports, or Trumps tanking approval or social services collapsing. Its everything. Trump was taking water on all sides and drowning.

I don't know why this idiotic conversation of who gets credit for a 3 week CR needs to happen when there is still a spending bill that needs to get written. People have fucked priorities.
It's not a dumb conversation. A lot of people don't appreciate the amount of power the labor force has and a conversation like this can increase class consciousness. Probably not by much, but it's a conversation worth having.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,897
This wasn't really a callout thread of era posters, though. And this is just another example of how there are people giving all of the credit to Pelosi.
Not quite.

You made a thread based on the false premise that people were giving Pelosi all the credit and the unions squat even though major media outlets were either talking about the power of a strike the day before the shutdown ended or giving them credit afterward. These articles paired nicely with ones that gave Pelosi credit for what she did and did well - keeping her caucus united and refusing to pay the hostage taker.

99% of the people in this thread said, "Both parties deserve credit," with many apportioning more praise to the unions.

So you made a thread about an article that criticized something literally nobody was saying just so you could... I don't know? Knock Pelosi down a few pegs? Imply that Democrats are stealing the unions' glory? Are neoliberal shills who ignore the ~~~working class~~~? Who cares.

But people didn't bite, and now you're just searching for random-ass people at B-list or worse publications to support this idea that popular sentiment is ignoring the unions and solely, exclusively, or disproportionately crediting Pelosi.

Like a sad little fire desperately searching for oxygen to sustain itself.

I see you.
 

junomars

Banned
Nov 19, 2018
723
Those people are the workers and he doesn't consider it to be a great thing if they have that much power to exert over the elites.


It's not a dumb conversation. A lot of people don't appreciate the amount of power the labor force has and a conversation like this can increase class consciousness. Probably not by much, but it's a conversation worth having.
There's a huge difference between the normal workforce, who alot of elites could live without and people who are necessary to support things that the rich people need to do.

Trying to group people critical to infrastructure and the general workforce is non-sensical. If there was a country wide blackout, electricians would be alot more important than the rest of the workforce and thus hold more power. If there were mass riots around the country, the police would hold far power than the rest of the workforce etc.

The point is, its not the general workforce that spurred action amongst the elite. Its the threat of closing airports.

And this conversation is stupid because the spending bill has not been passed and neither side has budged from their positions. Nothing has really been accomplished besides paying workers and temporarily stopping their suffering.
 
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Helio

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,728
Not quite.

You made a thread based on the false premise that people were giving Pelosi all the credit and the unions squat even though major media outlets were either talking about the power of a strike the day before the shutdown ended or giving them credit afterward. These articles paired nicely with ones that gave Pelosi credit for what she did and did well - keeping her caucus united and refusing to pay the hostage taker.

99% of the people in this thread said, "Both parties deserve credit," with many apportioning more praise to the unions.

So you made a thread about an article that criticized something literally nobody was saying just so you could... I don't know? Knock Pelosi down a few pegs? Imply that Democrats are stealing the unions' glory? Are neoliberal shills who ignore the ~~~working class~~~? Who cares.

But people didn't bite, and now you're just searching for random-ass people at B-list or worse publications to support this idea that popular sentiment is ignoring the unions and solely, exclusively, or disproportionately crediting Pelosi.

Like a pathetic little fire desperately searching for oxygen to sustain itself.

I see you.
There were examples in the article of people giving Pelosi credit. And again, I wasn't calling out people here.

You're assuming quite a bit about my intentions. I didn't want to take Pelosi down a few pegs, I just wanted to highlight the power of the workers. I even said that she deserves some credit for ending the shutdown. I wasn't saying that Democrats were trying to steal the glory of unions, either.

If you have a problem with it, I can't change your mind.

There's a huge difference between the normal workforce, who alot of elites could live without and people who are necessary to support things that the rich people need to do.

Trying to group people critical to infrastructure and the general workforce is non-sensical. If there was a country wide blackout, electricians would be alot more important than the rest of the workforce and thus hold more power. If there were mass riots around the country, the police would hold far power than the rest of the workforce etc.

The point is, its not the general workforce that spurred action amongst the elite. Its the threat of closing airports.

And this conversation is stupid because the spending bill has not been passed and neither side has budged from their positions.
There are a ton of workers the elite couldn't live without from dishwashers to cashiers and so on. Threaten the elite's money and they will listen. Yes, those who work on critical infrastructure wield more power than others, but I and many others put them in the same general workforce. It's solidarity.
 

Wonderment

Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
9,902
Official Staff Communication
This thread is for discussing the OP and related publications and opinions. Let's keep it focused on this rather than taunting others. Thanks.